McLaren refusing to supply independents
Discussion
Wheelspinning said:
Jeez.
If you are going to spout, at least have some knowledge of the topic you are spouting about.
What you keep referring to as the logo is actually called the speed mark.
The McLaren part ( or mclaten or mclacen depending on how you fancy spelling it ) IS the logo as per McLarens own definition.
Easy to fact find before making incorrect statements.
To help you on your way:
Thanks. Why do you think they’ve not been sued if it’s so Illegal?If you are going to spout, at least have some knowledge of the topic you are spouting about.
What you keep referring to as the logo is actually called the speed mark.
The McLaren part ( or mclaten or mclacen depending on how you fancy spelling it ) IS the logo as per McLarens own definition.
Easy to fact find before making incorrect statements.
To help you on your way:
Surely if it’s McLaren’s (or McLarens depending on your grammar) logo they would sue?
TP321 said:
You are missing the point…McLaren warranty versus Micky Mouse warranty…they both cost money, but the more expensive one is the real deal, and you will be guaranteed by the manufacturer even if the specific dealer messes up.
So if you can’t afford the real deal warranty, buy an R8 - they don’t go wrong, and even if they do, they are cheap to fix (relatively).
Oh, you should have said! All those McLaren owners with a Thorney… sorry Micky Mouse warranty will be cancelling their warranties it it’s that risky… although the risk you mentioned is very, very low…. 20 years and they’re still going strong…. so strong they’re expanding internationally. You can even read their latest accounts at CH if you like.So if you can’t afford the real deal warranty, buy an R8 - they don’t go wrong, and even if they do, they are cheap to fix (relatively).
And my R8 goes wrong and it’s not cheap for me!
R8Reece said:
Wheelspinning said:
Jeez.
If you are going to spout, at least have some knowledge of the topic you are spouting about.
What you keep referring to as the logo is actually called the speed mark.
The McLaren part ( or mclaten or mclacen depending on how you fancy spelling it ) IS the logo as per McLarens own definition.
Easy to fact find before making incorrect statements.
To help you on your way:
Thanks. Why do you think they’ve not been sued if it’s so Illegal?If you are going to spout, at least have some knowledge of the topic you are spouting about.
What you keep referring to as the logo is actually called the speed mark.
The McLaren part ( or mclaten or mclacen depending on how you fancy spelling it ) IS the logo as per McLarens own definition.
Easy to fact find before making incorrect statements.
To help you on your way:
Surely if it’s McLaren’s (or McLarens depending on your grammar) logo they would sue?
R8Reece said:
Wheelspinning said:
Jeez.
If you are going to spout, at least have some knowledge of the topic you are spouting about.
What you keep referring to as the logo is actually called the speed mark.
The McLaren part ( or mclaten or mclacen depending on how you fancy spelling it ) IS the logo as per McLarens own definition.
Easy to fact find before making incorrect statements.
To help you on your way:
Thanks. Why do you think they’ve not been sued if it’s so Illegal?If you are going to spout, at least have some knowledge of the topic you are spouting about.
What you keep referring to as the logo is actually called the speed mark.
The McLaren part ( or mclaten or mclacen depending on how you fancy spelling it ) IS the logo as per McLarens own definition.
Easy to fact find before making incorrect statements.
To help you on your way:
Surely if it’s McLaren’s (or McLarens depending on your grammar) logo they would sue?
MarkwG said:
There are 146 trademarks involving the word "mclaren" - some active, some inactive, some dead, some refused. Many are registered to companies who have nothing to do with road cars or motor racing. Those relating to the manufacture of road &/or race cars that use the word "McLaren" with the speed mark after the "n" & use a stylised font, are owned by the company we know as McLaren. The word "McLaren" without the speed mark has also been trademarked by them, which I imagine is what has been licenced to third parties, ensuring that "McLaren with the speed mark" remains uniquely connected to the licence holder. The key is indeed the speed mark logo, but the trademarked element is the word & the speed mark: I suspect they're happy to licence people to use it appropriately without the speed mark, but not with: which is pretty much what Mr Thorney said some time back, & what appears on his shirts. https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmtext/page/Resu...
Thanks, that is how I understood it i.e. the speed mark is the differentiator between what Thorney and McLaren use.R8Reece said:
TP321 said:
You are missing the point…McLaren warranty versus Micky Mouse warranty…they both cost money, but the more expensive one is the real deal, and you will be guaranteed by the manufacturer even if the specific dealer messes up.
So if you can’t afford the real deal warranty, buy an R8 - they don’t go wrong, and even if they do, they are cheap to fix (relatively).
Oh, you should have said! All those McLaren owners with a Thorney… sorry Micky Mouse warranty will be cancelling their warranties it it’s that risky… although the risk you mentioned is very, very low…. 20 years and they’re still going strong…. so strong they’re expanding internationally. You can even read their latest accounts at CH if you like.So if you can’t afford the real deal warranty, buy an R8 - they don’t go wrong, and even if they do, they are cheap to fix (relatively).
And my R8 goes wrong and it’s not cheap for me!
The risk is very very high. Only two weeks ago, John was bricking himself that it could be the end of his business. I for one, won’t be renewing, but will revert back to the McLaren extended warranty. It’s more expensive, but my money is safe.
Edited by TommyTerrible on Tuesday 9th November 23:14
R8Reece said:
MarkwG said:
There are 146 trademarks involving the word "mclaren" - some active, some inactive, some dead, some refused. Many are registered to companies who have nothing to do with road cars or motor racing. Those relating to the manufacture of road &/or race cars that use the word "McLaren" with the speed mark after the "n" & use a stylised font, are owned by the company we know as McLaren. The word "McLaren" without the speed mark has also been trademarked by them, which I imagine is what has been licenced to third parties, ensuring that "McLaren with the speed mark" remains uniquely connected to the licence holder. The key is indeed the speed mark logo, but the trademarked element is the word & the speed mark: I suspect they're happy to licence people to use it appropriately without the speed mark, but not with: which is pretty much what Mr Thorney said some time back, & what appears on his shirts. https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmtext/page/Resu...
Thanks, that is how I understood it i.e. the speed mark is the differentiator between what Thorney and McLaren use.R8Reece said:
Wheelspinning said:
Jeez.
If you are going to spout, at least have some knowledge of the topic you are spouting about.
What you keep referring to as the logo is actually called the speed mark.
The McLaren part ( or mclaten or mclacen depending on how you fancy spelling it ) IS the logo as per McLarens own definition.
Easy to fact find before making incorrect statements.
To help you on your way:
Thanks. Why do you think they’ve not been sued if it’s so Illegal?If you are going to spout, at least have some knowledge of the topic you are spouting about.
What you keep referring to as the logo is actually called the speed mark.
The McLaren part ( or mclaten or mclacen depending on how you fancy spelling it ) IS the logo as per McLarens own definition.
Easy to fact find before making incorrect statements.
To help you on your way:
Surely if it’s McLaren’s (or McLarens depending on your grammar) logo they would sue?
I put it to Thorney that he was offering a global expansion plan whilst having a McLaren logo on his workwear may of just antagonised McLaren as he has no affiliation with them whatsoever.
That is when he declared he had no McLaren logo whatsoever on his workwear.
It then turned into 'its a different font'.
As I said; if a genuine answer cannot be given about a small detail like that, it doesn't give me confidence in the rest of the story has been portrayed accurately.
All just how I see it.
ThePackMan said:
R8Reece said:
MarkwG said:
There are 146 trademarks involving the word "mclaren" - some active, some inactive, some dead, some refused. Many are registered to companies who have nothing to do with road cars or motor racing. Those relating to the manufacture of road &/or race cars that use the word "McLaren" with the speed mark after the "n" & use a stylised font, are owned by the company we know as McLaren. The word "McLaren" without the speed mark has also been trademarked by them, which I imagine is what has been licenced to third parties, ensuring that "McLaren with the speed mark" remains uniquely connected to the licence holder. The key is indeed the speed mark logo, but the trademarked element is the word & the speed mark: I suspect they're happy to licence people to use it appropriately without the speed mark, but not with: which is pretty much what Mr Thorney said some time back, & what appears on his shirts. https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmtext/page/Resu...
Thanks, that is how I understood it i.e. the speed mark is the differentiator between what Thorney and McLaren use.The McLaren word trademark covers five classes, none of which relate specifically to the repair of motor vehicles. Therefore, as I understand the law, he's perfectly at liberty to use the word alone to advertise his business, provided he doesn't use it to promote any activities that fall within those five classes - as that would infringe their IPO. McLaren race cars, & they build them to sell - but they don't service & maintain them, as he does. Hence why McLaren the property company can separately trademark their business interests, in different classes, without recourse to McLaren the car manufacturer.
Borrowing your analogy, you can advertise that you're an orchard selling apples, with a picture of an apple, & trademark that if the authorities let you; what you can't do, is promote your business repairing computers to compete with Apple Inc, the technology company, by using an apple motif - because they also repair computers, as well as selling them.
TP321 said:
I dont know why people are risking running a £200k complex car out of manufacturers warranty, especially one which has a track record of some very expensive repairs. I also cannot see how Thorney are doing themselves any favour coming on here and broadcasting the fact that their part supply is weak and not guaranteed. It doesn't matter that you can buy a 12C for £70k - its a 10 year old complex car which no one apart from McLaren themselves and to an extent Thorney (provided they can diagnose and have parts) can fix. No matter how good it is, it will need fixing from time to time and it is certainly wont be cheap.
If you cant afford the manufacturers warranty stay away as this thread has shown that nothing is safe or guaranteed.
Here in Australia the ACL requires manufacturers to warrant items to a reasonable period which I believe is at least now 5-7 years given that most mainstream manufacturers do the same. If/when I buy a McLaren I'll run it out of warranty then take McLaren to the consumer tribunal if they decline a goodwill repair before 5-7 years. I'll let you know how I go. It's pretty simple to litigate in the consumer tribunal over here and it only costs a few hundred bucks. It's a no-costs jurisdiction so I won't be at risk for adverse costs.If you cant afford the manufacturers warranty stay away as this thread has shown that nothing is safe or guaranteed.
I'd do the same if I bought a Fez by the way. Though Fez have 7 years free servicing over here so the likelihood of a goodwill repair is a bit higher.
MarkwG said:
ThePackMan said:
R8Reece said:
MarkwG said:
There are 146 trademarks involving the word "mclaren" - some active, some inactive, some dead, some refused. Many are registered to companies who have nothing to do with road cars or motor racing. Those relating to the manufacture of road &/or race cars that use the word "McLaren" with the speed mark after the "n" & use a stylised font, are owned by the company we know as McLaren. The word "McLaren" without the speed mark has also been trademarked by them, which I imagine is what has been licenced to third parties, ensuring that "McLaren with the speed mark" remains uniquely connected to the licence holder. The key is indeed the speed mark logo, but the trademarked element is the word & the speed mark: I suspect they're happy to licence people to use it appropriately without the speed mark, but not with: which is pretty much what Mr Thorney said some time back, & what appears on his shirts. https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmtext/page/Resu...
Thanks, that is how I understood it i.e. the speed mark is the differentiator between what Thorney and McLaren use.The McLaren word trademark covers five classes, none of which relate specifically to the repair of motor vehicles. Therefore, as I understand the law, he's perfectly at liberty to use the word alone to advertise his business, provided he doesn't use it to promote any activities that fall within those five classes - as that would infringe their IPO. McLaren race cars, & they build them to sell - but they don't service & maintain them, as he does. Hence why McLaren the property company can separately trademark their business interests, in different classes, without recourse to McLaren the car manufacturer.
Borrowing your analogy, you can advertise that you're an orchard selling apples, with a picture of an apple, & trademark that if the authorities let you; what you can't do, is promote your business repairing computers to compete with Apple Inc, the technology company, by using an apple motif - because they also repair computers, as well as selling them.
I guess this is a situation that will pass over time.
In Sweden you have two options with Porsche AR.
Resellers that service cars plus give service. And servicecenter that just service cars.
I guess McLaren has to embrace a similar setup over time.
A satisfied owner is the best sales person. That goes with all brands.
And, since I have a Porsche as well I can witness that AR Resellers do not perform with the best intentions.
But, they like to present massive bills....
Thorney seems to be a good option. Thinking of gearboxes and engine problems where repair seems out of the question with McLaren AR.
In Sweden you have two options with Porsche AR.
Resellers that service cars plus give service. And servicecenter that just service cars.
I guess McLaren has to embrace a similar setup over time.
A satisfied owner is the best sales person. That goes with all brands.
And, since I have a Porsche as well I can witness that AR Resellers do not perform with the best intentions.
But, they like to present massive bills....
Thorney seems to be a good option. Thinking of gearboxes and engine problems where repair seems out of the question with McLaren AR.
Edited by MclaesLaren on Wednesday 10th November 09:01
ThePackMan said:
You’re ignoring that he’s using it on clothing and McLaren do have a registered trademark in clothing (class18). So to use your analogy he’s not growing apples in an orchard, he’s putting the McLaren name on his clothing. End of.
According to the Internet, class 18 relates to leather good such as handbags and also whips?Edited by R8Reece on Wednesday 10th November 09:10
TommyTerrible said:
I for one, won’t be renewing, but will revert back to the McLaren extended warranty. It’s more expensive, but my money is safe.
Hi. Tried to send you an email but your account is hidden and wont accept emails, if you have one of our warranties and are unhappy then let me know and I will refund it for you. Edited by TommyTerrible on Tuesday 9th November 23:14
This thread really is a tragic indictment of the world as it is today.
When I bought my first sports car in 1987, I got to meet a wonderful band of people - “A happy band of irregulars”.
It was fun.
The people at the dealer were fun. The people at the factory were fun. The owners were fun.
I remember a chap turning up at Silverstone in his Ferrari 250 GTO, a recent ham sandwich wrapper and empty tube of smarties stuffed behind his seat.
No one was in it for the money; certainly not the owners, and the factory was not driven by the IRR on the business plan, whilst geared up to the maximum possible.
There was no talk about investment. About warranties. About supplying parts legally or illegally. About fonts. About passing off. It was a passion.
Nobody gave a s
t about any of that stuff.
Some lucky people managed to make a living around these cars. Some of them still do it today because they love it.
Personally, I think VCs make lousy owners of car companies.
But SOME customers and dealers also seem to have disappeared so far up their own bottoms that they really have completely lost sight of what sports cars should be about.
When I bought my first sports car in 1987, I got to meet a wonderful band of people - “A happy band of irregulars”.
It was fun.
The people at the dealer were fun. The people at the factory were fun. The owners were fun.
I remember a chap turning up at Silverstone in his Ferrari 250 GTO, a recent ham sandwich wrapper and empty tube of smarties stuffed behind his seat.
No one was in it for the money; certainly not the owners, and the factory was not driven by the IRR on the business plan, whilst geared up to the maximum possible.
There was no talk about investment. About warranties. About supplying parts legally or illegally. About fonts. About passing off. It was a passion.
Nobody gave a s
t about any of that stuff.Some lucky people managed to make a living around these cars. Some of them still do it today because they love it.
Personally, I think VCs make lousy owners of car companies.
But SOME customers and dealers also seem to have disappeared so far up their own bottoms that they really have completely lost sight of what sports cars should be about.
Edited by Ferruccio on Wednesday 10th November 09:45
Edited by Ferruccio on Wednesday 10th November 09:57
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