McLaren refusing to supply independents
Discussion
Crazy4557 said:
2 years -11.5k miles and never needed a drop, one trackday at Silverstone and it uses a fair bit and needed topping up. Must be the first car for many years I've had to add oil to. so I will be checking more often now rather than every 6 months.
Similar experience, I check the oil every time I park up in the garage. Never used any oil until I took it on track. Topped it up, it hasn't used any since. Coming up to 6000 miles now.macdeb said:
Thorney said:
Dealer sales person told him that the engine was "sealed" and never needed checking.
. Or at least were "sealed" before Thorney learned fix. I think thats part of the issue. If Mcl have a contractual agreement with gearbox supplier what to do in event of failure i.e. is a full replacement gearbox ofneven a minor component failure like a rubber seal however ridiculous it seems a contract is a contract. It is ridiculous though considering how much a new gearbox is if you do not have warranty. The relationship is symbiotic.Desert Dragon said:
Do you find you 720s and 12c actually need a top up John on a weekly basis? I have a few dry sump cars and they use between 0.8 and 1 litre every 600 to 1000 miles i.e. per month. Topping them up monthly (3 of them) is a chore but I do it religiously as manufacturers both told me at delivery they will use up to 1 litre of oil every month and do like a drop of oil. Sounds like you're checking the oil every 200-300 miles? Paranoia or good practice?
2016 650s - never needed topping up in normal use - only after a track day.Desert Dragon said:
macdeb said:
Thorney said:
Dealer sales person told him that the engine was "sealed" and never needed checking.
. Or at least were "sealed" before Thorney learned fix. I think thats part of the issue. If Mcl have a contractual agreement with gearbox supplier what to do in event of failure i.e. is a full replacement gearbox ofneven a minor component failure like a rubber seal however ridiculous it seems a contract is a contract. It is ridiculous though considering how much a new gearbox is if you do not have warranty. The relationship is symbiotic.Taffy66 said:
R8Reece said:
SSO, a PH member, recently posted a blog on their financial status - 6 to 12 months ago it was looking dire, now it’s looking a little more Rosie but a long way to go.
https://karenable.com/mclarens-1st-half-2021-resul...
You mean throwing good money after bad ! They are still burning cash at a rate only the UK Government could comprehend. Trick of running any successful business is to manage cash flow and ensure its a positive figure at year end, otherwise eventually you'll run out of it. https://karenable.com/mclarens-1st-half-2021-resul...
Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity but CASH is King.
Thorney said:
We had one 720 owner come in (was just passing and he had an eml on) we checked his oil and still couldn't get it to minimum after 1.5 litres added.
Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, but are you saying that a modern high end supercar can have an oil level 1.5L below minimum without some sort of warning light coming on?Even my old mini could manage that (then again it was an 850, not a puny 720
)DevonPaul said:
Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, but are you saying that a modern high end supercar can have an oil level 1.5L below minimum without some sort of warning light coming on?
Even my old mini could manage that (then again it was an 850, not a puny 720 )
Correct, no light, no warning, eml was for a boost leakEven my old mini could manage that (then again it was an 850, not a puny 720
)Thorney said:
DevonPaul said:
Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, but are you saying that a modern high end supercar can have an oil level 1.5L below minimum without some sort of warning light coming on?
Even my old mini could manage that (then again it was an 850, not a puny 720 )
Correct, no light, no warning, eml was for a boost leakEven my old mini could manage that (then again it was an 850, not a puny 720
)1) a) McLaren have built a lot of safety into their 'minimum engine oil level' for this 720 model, so the low oil warning light hadn't yet been triggered? Thorney playing safe/to the book & advising not to drive car & transporter collection.
b) As the EML light was on, McLaren policy is car should be stopped (?), & any/ALL faults should be found anyway at the Dealers, BUT it seems very odd to let a car drive around with potentially low oil. If boost leak/EML warning hadn't occurred, would the engine oil light warning have ever come on?
OR
2) The oil warning sensor was faulty, & hadn't lit the warning light?
3) The oil warning sensor was triggering the warning light, but the warning light wasn't lit?
4) Boost leak overides a low engine oil level on the software (as it was this that was recorded, not low oil)?
5) The EML system can't deal/prioritise with more than one issue at a time?
6) Something else?
If;-
1) It seems serious damage averted just in time, but if Dealer Salesperson stated what they did (i.e engine sealed, no need to check oil), then a serious failure in sales & McLaren philosophy here. Do not Supercar Dealers go through checking oil & other supercar model specific procedures with customers, especially with dry sump engines?! This isn't a run of the mill car, it's a special supercar.
2-6) It seems this car (or 720 model of car) has some other potentially serious issues that need investigating?!
I don't know McLarens, so I cannot say if there is a separate engine oil level gauge, it's just that something doesn't seem right here? Maybe my ignorance I'll admit.
You can do a full oil level check from the dash. It's not just a gauge, so not an instant process, taking up to 2 mins on some models.
Here's a video from Thourney Motor Sport which show how to do it in McLaren Sports Series, its very similar in the Super Series, just the menus look different.
Here's a video from Thourney Motor Sport which show how to do it in McLaren Sports Series, its very similar in the Super Series, just the menus look different.
Edited by cars4enjoying on Monday 22 November 10:33
cars4enjoying said:
You can do a full oil level check from the dash. It's not just a gauge, so not an instant process, taking up to 2 mins on some models.
Here's a video from Thourney Motor Sport which show how to do it in McLaren Sports Series, its very similar in the Super Series, just the menus look different.
That's interesting, but is there any way of alerting a low oil situation on the move? You're not going to be running through that two minute check once under way, I suspect. If the oil consumption goes up & the level drops to a critical point, does the car let you know before the engine gets totalled?Here's a video from Thourney Motor Sport which show how to do it in McLaren Sports Series, its very similar in the Super Series, just the menus look different.
Edited by cars4enjoying on Monday 22 November 10:33
I guess the issue is that its a dry sump so can't simply measure the oil "level".
Did mine yesterday after having read this thread, just in case! Bang on half way, 1000 miles after a service.
Presumably if there was a drop in oil pressure whilst running it would trigger a warning but by then damage might have already been done.
Did mine yesterday after having read this thread, just in case! Bang on half way, 1000 miles after a service.
Presumably if there was a drop in oil pressure whilst running it would trigger a warning but by then damage might have already been done.
It's an absolute faff in my opinion. Often my Sports Series will not let me check the oil level even if the correct oil temperature as required in the manual is acheived.
I know it's a dry sump system but presumably there is an oil holding tank which could be checked for oil level at rest? Even my old dry sump 1981 Esprit turbo had this facility
I know it's a dry sump system but presumably there is an oil holding tank which could be checked for oil level at rest? Even my old dry sump 1981 Esprit turbo had this facility
Matty3 said:
It's an absolute faff in my opinion. Often my Sports Series will not let me check the oil level even if the correct oil temperature as required in the manual is acheived.
I know it's a dry sump system but presumably there is an oil holding tank which could be checked for oil level at rest? Even my old dry sump 1981 Esprit turbo had this facility
Depends on how the system is designed. There is actually a “sump” but holds a relatively small part of the total oil. Besides, it won’t be at temperature…I know it's a dry sump system but presumably there is an oil holding tank which could be checked for oil level at rest? Even my old dry sump 1981 Esprit turbo had this facility
Stick Legs said:
Ferruccio said:
This thread really is a tragic indictment of the world as it is today.
When I bought my first sports car in 1987, I got to meet a wonderful band of people - “A happy band of irregulars”.
It was fun.
The people at the dealer were fun. The people at the factory were fun. The owners were fun.
I remember a chap turning up at Silverstone in his Ferrari 250 GTO, a recent ham sandwich wrapper and empty tube of smarties stuff behind his seat.
No one was it it for the money; certainly not the owners, and the factory was not driven by the IRR on the business plan, whilst geared up to the maximum possible.
There was no talk about investment. About warranties. About supplying parts legally or illegally. About fonts. About passing off. It was a passion.
Nobody gave a s
t about any of that stuff.
Some lucky people managed to make a living around these cars. Some of them still do it today because they love it.
Personally, I think VCs make lousy owners of car companies.
But SOME customers and dealers also seem to have disappeared so far up their own bottoms that they really have completely lost sight of what sports cars should be about.
Amen.When I bought my first sports car in 1987, I got to meet a wonderful band of people - “A happy band of irregulars”.
It was fun.
The people at the dealer were fun. The people at the factory were fun. The owners were fun.
I remember a chap turning up at Silverstone in his Ferrari 250 GTO, a recent ham sandwich wrapper and empty tube of smarties stuff behind his seat.
No one was it it for the money; certainly not the owners, and the factory was not driven by the IRR on the business plan, whilst geared up to the maximum possible.
There was no talk about investment. About warranties. About supplying parts legally or illegally. About fonts. About passing off. It was a passion.
Nobody gave a s
t about any of that stuff.Some lucky people managed to make a living around these cars. Some of them still do it today because they love it.
Personally, I think VCs make lousy owners of car companies.
But SOME customers and dealers also seem to have disappeared so far up their own bottoms that they really have completely lost sight of what sports cars should be about.
So I have just bought a 675LT Spider (first McLaren) without a warranty.
I asked on another thread a few questions about the car and someone mentioned Thorny in a response. They posted a very useful video of John talking about a 12C - this let me to do a search and I stumbled across this thread.
I have now read it from start to finish (that’s a few hours I’m never getting back) ; I found parts of it really useful but most of it was a really painful, but I guess compelling, read.
I’m in the East Midlands and am looking for someone to look after my car from a service and maintainance perspective and I need to decide what to do warranty wise. I plan to give John a ring tomorrow to discuss.
If anyone with direct experience using John , Litchfield or Rybrook Birmingham can be bothered to post any genuine feedback, (if negative maybe drop me a PM - as I really don’t want to make this thread any worse than it already is) it would be much appreciated - thanks
PS before people ask why the hell I’ve wasted my time reading this, rather than going out in the car - I’m unfortunately locked down
I asked on another thread a few questions about the car and someone mentioned Thorny in a response. They posted a very useful video of John talking about a 12C - this let me to do a search and I stumbled across this thread.
I have now read it from start to finish (that’s a few hours I’m never getting back) ; I found parts of it really useful but most of it was a really painful, but I guess compelling, read.
I’m in the East Midlands and am looking for someone to look after my car from a service and maintainance perspective and I need to decide what to do warranty wise. I plan to give John a ring tomorrow to discuss.
If anyone with direct experience using John , Litchfield or Rybrook Birmingham can be bothered to post any genuine feedback, (if negative maybe drop me a PM - as I really don’t want to make this thread any worse than it already is) it would be much appreciated - thanks
PS before people ask why the hell I’ve wasted my time reading this, rather than going out in the car - I’m unfortunately locked down
RSVP911 said:
So I have just bought a 675LT Spider (first McLaren) without a warranty.
I asked on another thread a few questions about the car and someone mentioned Thorny in a response. They posted a very useful video of John talking about a 12C - this let me to do a search and I stumbled across this thread.
I have now read it from start to finish (that’s a few hours I’m never getting back) ; I found parts of it really useful but most of it was a really painful, but I guess compelling, read.
I’m in the East Midlands and am looking for someone to look after my car from a service and maintainance perspective and I need to decide what to do warranty wise. I plan to give John a ring tomorrow to discuss.
If anyone with direct experience using John , Litchfield or Rybrook Birmingham can be bothered to post any genuine feedback, (if negative maybe drop me a PM - as I really don’t want to make this thread any worse than it already is) it would be much appreciated - thanks
PS before people ask why the hell I’ve wasted my time reading this, rather than going out in the car - I’m unfortunately locked down
Well, I had Thorney do an inspection of my car before the extended McLaren warranty ran out as I wanted an unbiased view of my car and was mightily impressed by the service, knowledge and approachability. Real nice bunch of guys and Johns free advice on these forums is always welcome and testament to his knowledge. McLaren need people like Thorney in my view. You mentioned Rybrook B'ham who have serviced my car and who carried out the quite extensive warranty work required pointed out by Thorney and more. I was truly grateful for the excellent service extended to me and I cannot fault them either. Constant updates, pictures, workshop viewing whilst being worked on and always made welcome there and have a chat. Simon and Simon are great guys. I had a fear of being looked down on when going into McLaren ownership by a bunch of knobs that 'some' dealers seem to have a reputation for and the only negative comments I've overheard thus far have been from owners who think their sh*t don't stink (most have been great, there's always the exception I suppose). I did extend my McLaren warranty for it's last year it seems as I almost felt obliged to do so iyswim and McLaren even picked up my service cost and the dealer the MOT! I would be happy to recommend either and I think you are fortunate to be local between the two. I asked on another thread a few questions about the car and someone mentioned Thorny in a response. They posted a very useful video of John talking about a 12C - this let me to do a search and I stumbled across this thread.
I have now read it from start to finish (that’s a few hours I’m never getting back) ; I found parts of it really useful but most of it was a really painful, but I guess compelling, read.
I’m in the East Midlands and am looking for someone to look after my car from a service and maintainance perspective and I need to decide what to do warranty wise. I plan to give John a ring tomorrow to discuss.
If anyone with direct experience using John , Litchfield or Rybrook Birmingham can be bothered to post any genuine feedback, (if negative maybe drop me a PM - as I really don’t want to make this thread any worse than it already is) it would be much appreciated - thanks
PS before people ask why the hell I’ve wasted my time reading this, rather than going out in the car - I’m unfortunately locked down
Edited by macdeb on Sunday 30th January 17:36
macdeb said:
RSVP911 said:
So I have just bought a 675LT Spider (first McLaren) without a warranty.
I asked on another thread a few questions about the car and someone mentioned Thorny in a response. They posted a very useful video of John talking about a 12C - this let me to do a search and I stumbled across this thread.
I have now read it from start to finish (that’s a few hours I’m never getting back) ; I found parts of it really useful but most of it was a really painful, but I guess compelling, read.
I’m in the East Midlands and am looking for someone to look after my car from a service and maintainance perspective and I need to decide what to do warranty wise. I plan to give John a ring tomorrow to discuss.
If anyone with direct experience using John , Litchfield or Rybrook Birmingham can be bothered to post any genuine feedback, (if negative maybe drop me a PM - as I really don’t want to make this thread any worse than it already is) it would be much appreciated - thanks
PS before people ask why the hell I’ve wasted my time reading this, rather than going out in the car - I’m unfortunately locked down
Well, I had Thorney do an inspection of my car before the extended McLaren warranty ran out as I wanted an unbiased view of my car and was mightily impressed by the service, knowledge and approachability. Real nice bunch of guys and Johns free advice on these forums is always welcome and testament to his knowledge. McLaren need people like Thorney in my view. You mentioned Rybrook B'ham who have serviced my car and who carried out the quite extensive warranty work required pointed out by Thorney and more. I was truly grateful for the excellent service extended to me and I cannot fault them either. Constant updates, pictures, workshop viewing whilst being worked on and always made welcome there and have a chat. Simon and Simon are great guys. I had a fear of being looked down on when going into McLaren ownership by a bunch of knobs that 'some' dealers seem to have a reputation for and the only negative comments I've overheard thus far have been from owners who think their sh*t don't stink (most have been great, there's always the exception I suppose). I did extend my McLaren warranty for it's last year it seems as I almost felt obliged to do so iyswim and McLaren even picked up my service cost and the dealer the MOT! I would be happy to recommend either and I think you are fortunate to be local between the two. I asked on another thread a few questions about the car and someone mentioned Thorny in a response. They posted a very useful video of John talking about a 12C - this let me to do a search and I stumbled across this thread.
I have now read it from start to finish (that’s a few hours I’m never getting back) ; I found parts of it really useful but most of it was a really painful, but I guess compelling, read.
I’m in the East Midlands and am looking for someone to look after my car from a service and maintainance perspective and I need to decide what to do warranty wise. I plan to give John a ring tomorrow to discuss.
If anyone with direct experience using John , Litchfield or Rybrook Birmingham can be bothered to post any genuine feedback, (if negative maybe drop me a PM - as I really don’t want to make this thread any worse than it already is) it would be much appreciated - thanks
PS before people ask why the hell I’ve wasted my time reading this, rather than going out in the car - I’m unfortunately locked down
Edited by macdeb on Sunday 30th January 17:36
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