Mumtalakat to take over McLaren

Mumtalakat to take over McLaren

Author
Discussion

Soleith

Original Poster:

518 posts

94 months

Friday 22nd March
quotequote all
Take it over, sell it all, take it over! DESE KERRRRAZY GAIZ! XD

Streetbeat

999 posts

81 months

Saturday 23rd March
quotequote all
Good to hear, fingers crossed and also excellent to hear the 750s sold old till the end of 24 bow

Cheib

23,600 posts

180 months

Tuesday 26th March
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DD321 said:
https://newspressuk.com/publicReleaseView/109925/6...

Seems Mumtalakat have taken full control!
My guess is the headlines about them divesting were to concentrate the minds of the minority shareholders….probably been some tension around capital injections etc. I’d imagine Mumtalakat probably didn’t have to pay too much to take them out.

TootingMcLaren

279 posts

224 months

Wednesday 27th March
quotequote all
Cheib said:
My guess is the headlines about them divesting were to concentrate the minds of the minority shareholders….probably been some tension around capital injections etc. I’d imagine Mumtalakat probably didn’t have to pay too much to take them out.
Certainly looks that way:

https://news.sky.com/story/bahrain-state-fund-take...

"As part of the recapitalisation deal, McLaren's remaining minority shareholders have agreed to convert their equity into warrant-like instruments.

The new contracts will have the economic rights to benefit from a future 'liquidity event' such as an initial public offering or sale of McLaren, but would not be classed as shares."

Looks like Ron got out at the right time...

SSO

1,440 posts

196 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
I just posted up an analysis of McLaren's 1st half 2024 results including a few insights gathered from a discussion with CEO Michael Leiters. Overall they seem to be doing much better. Revenue is up over 50% and EBITDA now positive.

SydneyBridge

9,190 posts

163 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024

Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well

naboo

126 posts

118 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
SydneyBridge said:
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024

Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday...driving

SSO

1,440 posts

196 months

Tuesday 3rd September
quotequote all
naboo said:
SydneyBridge said:
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024

Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday...driving
or at least get on the podium....

ex-devonpaul

1,257 posts

142 months

Tuesday 3rd September
quotequote all
SSO said:
naboo said:
SydneyBridge said:
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024

Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday...driving
or at least get on the podium....
There probably is still quite a bit of truth in this. Doing well in F1 has improved the reputation of McL - they can produce competitive reliable cars up there with the best of them, and this does rub off on their road cars.

The 750 seems to be driving the sales, perhaps not surprising given the muted press reception for the Artura, and I suspect the perceived financial stability from the Bahrain investment means potential customers are more confident in being able to get them looked after down the line.

samoht

6,060 posts

151 months

Tuesday 3rd September
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This slide from your excellent post seems worth pulling out here, with regard to the relative proportions of GT, Artura and 750S sales and how they've changed:




Ferruccio

1,840 posts

124 months

Thursday 5th September
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EBITDA would seem even more of a fantasy in a car company than others.

Cash flow and statutory profit do matter.

r o n n i e

377 posts

181 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
SSO said:
naboo said:
SydneyBridge said:
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024

Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday...driving
or at least get on the podium....
Overall another great article by SSO. THANKS for time and effort to write and share your perspectives.

As a big McLaren cars fan it is great to see things turning around.

US market is the key to future sales to anchor cash income on.

McL have a materially different and positive vibe in the US compared with other markets, need to leverage that big time!! US buyers are also more willing to MSO their orders which is a very lucrative margin game to tap into.

The SSO article is overly optimistic if it concludes good H2-24 and 2025 figures equates to “ they can start considering the turnaround to be complete” - I believe McL face extreme challenges that will go beyond that timeframe.

Residuals are still a massive problem. In the UK it is increasingly difficult to find customers willing to repeatedly buy new “volume model” McLarens if you continue to take a 6 figure bath for the privilege of being the first owner. Whilst McLaren do offer stand out value and “bang for buck” in the used car market, that doesn’t help McLaren HQ and their EBITDA.

Love the Artura, an amazing drivers car. 700bhp yet managed to give me 60mpg daily driving in central London during my week with it. Love the silent start, no need to annoy neighbours when leaving the house at unsociable hours. Unfortunately I and many other owners can’t stomach the significant bath ordering that car entails. An unintended consequence of already producing amazing cars is the cost of change needs to dramatically come down to persuade existing owners off the “legacy” cars.

McL suffer hugely from lack of model variation. The Solus is such a limited production and track only car, inclusion as part of the model range misinforms the casual reader - the Solus cannot be purchased and doesn’t materially impact sales numbers, in fact were they not all included as part of the 2023 earnings / financials?

I think McL should make benefit of the development costs of the Solus Judd V10 and stick a variant in the P18…now that would really help elevate the P1 replacement against increasing competition in the halo car market. To yet again reuse / rehash another variant of the V8 shows McL are not really learning, nor ambitious. A frequent put down is the V8 lacks “emotion”, a screaming n/a V10 surging past 10,000 rpm would surely remediate.

Ferrari have a long established cult like, deep customer base to be able to ride out their current lack of new car order options. And by limited options, I mean limited by Ferrari standards as to be fair it is no where near as limited as McLaren.

Ending on a positive, the F1 constructors is looking more and more likely, I would bet on McLaren to win this season and agree that will have a positive impact on new car sales. (Btw Oscar has not won two F1 races as the SSO article states.)

Streetbeat

999 posts

81 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
Some good points raised.

I think residuals lie solely at the feet of the dealer network, they were too keen to punt new models into customers and the 2nd hand market could go hang. Market values in the EU are way better than here and if build quality and model line up were the issues why hasnt that impacted the EU values to the same degree here
.

Ferrari have been around years, they have had time to grow that fan base, i would say there are good number of Mclaren fans, its well documented on here, people who have had lots of models and remain loyal to the brand, over time im sure that fan base will grow just like the "established" marques, they have come a long long way in a very short amount of time imo.

I dont ever think the Judd V10 could become mainstream, its a race engine that would need work to become a mainstream road engine choice and with everything heading the hybrid way, i just dont see the benefit, was it not mentioned/rumoured that the 750s will be the last solely ice vehicle they do, or am i thinking Lotus Evira? Sadly they are just to late the ICE car hey day. I guess the V6 for the Artura will have cost enough in development to be an engine of choice for the future.

SSO

1,440 posts

196 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
r o n n i e said:
SSO said:
naboo said:
SydneyBridge said:
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024

Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday...driving
or at least get on the podium....
Overall another great article by SSO. THANKS for time and effort to write and share your perspectives.

As a big McLaren cars fan it is great to see things turning around.

US market is the key to future sales to anchor cash income on.

McL have a materially different and positive vibe in the US compared with other markets, need to leverage that big time!! US buyers are also more willing to MSO their orders which is a very lucrative margin game to tap into.

The SSO article is overly optimistic if it concludes good H2-24 and 2025 figures equates to “ they can start considering the turnaround to be complete” - I believe McL face extreme challenges that will go beyond that timeframe.

Residuals are still a massive problem. In the UK it is increasingly difficult to find customers willing to repeatedly buy new “volume model” McLarens if you continue to take a 6 figure bath for the privilege of being the first owner. Whilst McLaren do offer stand out value and “bang for buck” in the used car market, that doesn’t help McLaren HQ and their EBITDA.

Love the Artura, an amazing drivers car. 700bhp yet managed to give me 60mpg daily driving in central London during my week with it. Love the silent start, no need to annoy neighbours when leaving the house at unsociable hours. Unfortunately I and many other owners can’t stomach the significant bath ordering that car entails. An unintended consequence of already producing amazing cars is the cost of change needs to dramatically come down to persuade existing owners off the “legacy” cars.

McL suffer hugely from lack of model variation. The Solus is such a limited production and track only car, inclusion as part of the model range misinforms the casual reader - the Solus cannot be purchased and doesn’t materially impact sales numbers, in fact were they not all included as part of the 2023 earnings / financials?

I think McL should make benefit of the development costs of the Solus Judd V10 and stick a variant in the P18…now that would really help elevate the P1 replacement against increasing competition in the halo car market. To yet again reuse / rehash another variant of the V8 shows McL are not really learning, nor ambitious. A frequent put down is the V8 lacks “emotion”, a screaming n/a V10 surging past 10,000 rpm would surely remediate.

Ferrari have a long established cult like, deep customer base to be able to ride out their current lack of new car order options. And by limited options, I mean limited by Ferrari standards as to be fair it is no where near as limited as McLaren.

Ending on a positive, the F1 constructors is looking more and more likely, I would bet on McLaren to win this season and agree that will have a positive impact on new car sales. (Btw Oscar has not won two F1 races as the SSO article states.)
Thanks and correct on number of wins Oscar has. I believe McLaren have enough positive momentum to carry them through 2025 but 2026 will be pivotal.

On hate Solus Judd V10, I did ask about getting that into a road car and was told there is no way it can be made emission compliant.

ralphrj

3,621 posts

196 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
Streetbeat said:
Some good points raised.

I think residuals lie solely at the feet of the dealer network, they were too keen to punt new models into customers and the 2nd hand market could go hang.
Having worked in auto retail I would disagree - dealers don't control supply. Dealers will only be throwing new models out the door if they are under pressure from the factory to shift stock. Poor residuals are simply a consequence of oversupply and blame for that lies squarely with the factory.

RSbandit

2,733 posts

137 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
Its really hard to justify a brand new McLaren tbh, Arturas specced to £230k were available with delivery miles for sub £200k...ones with 5/6k miles in the classifieds are on at £140k ....that's a shocker in 12-18 months and anyone who bought new close to full rrp must be pretty sick. Fairly new 750s available at £270-280K and those cars were probably specced to £330-350k. They're fantastic driving machines but waiting 2/3 yrs before stepping in has made sense...of course if writing off £100k in 12-18 months is no biggie then more power to you.

Streetbeat

999 posts

81 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
ralphrj said:
Having worked in auto retail I would disagree - dealers don't control supply. Dealers will only be throwing new models out the door if they are under pressure from the factory to shift stock. Poor residuals are simply a consequence of oversupply and blame for that lies squarely with the factory.
Surely supply was the same in the EU, so why do they hold up better there, if not for the dealers?

MDL111

7,098 posts

182 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
ralphrj said:
Streetbeat said:
Some good points raised.

I think residuals lie solely at the feet of the dealer network, they were too keen to punt new models into customers and the 2nd hand market could go hang.
Having worked in auto retail I would disagree - dealers don't control supply. Dealers will only be throwing new models out the door if they are under pressure from the factory to shift stock. Poor residuals are simply a consequence of oversupply and blame for that lies squarely with the factory.
agree, that is not solely the dealers' fault. A friend of my recently bought an AM 707 when the facelift was announced and the dealer told him they already had to order x facelift cars on spec (I think it was somewhere between 5 and 10) and then try to get them out the door once they have them. Manufacturers are flooding the market to show good sales figures and the dealers then have to sell the cars to get out of the commitment, no wonder they will discount those then.

ralphrj

3,621 posts

196 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
Streetbeat said:
ralphrj said:
Having worked in auto retail I would disagree - dealers don't control supply. Dealers will only be throwing new models out the door if they are under pressure from the factory to shift stock. Poor residuals are simply a consequence of oversupply and blame for that lies squarely with the factory.
Surely supply was the same in the EU, so why do they hold up better there, if not for the dealers?
Who said supply was the same in the EU? One obvious distinction between UK and EU cars (most of ROW in fact) is which side the steering wheel was put on (I think only the P1 was LHD only). RHD vs LHD volumes will have been decided by McLaren. If residuals are better in LHD markets than RHD then the factory probably built too many RHD cars...

Mwn11

125 posts

72 months

Friday 6th September
quotequote all
My McLaren has been great for me, no issues, lots of fun, stupid fast.

The thing that lets them down is their branding. By this I mean the whole companies approach to franchising their name out to dealerships and the lack of standards that they have over their dealerships.

It's not that they are necessarily doing anything wrong but most other supercar brands are doing it better. I know friends with Ferraris and Lamborghinis that are regularly getting invites to events, post through the mail, loaned newer models when theirs go in for a service etc.

Tbh we got made to feel more special buying a Volvo vs a McLaren both from main dealers.

If they introduced a more thorough guarantee on the service you get buying their cars and they overdelivered on their aftersales/customer service I am sure public opinion would soon change and their sales would rise accordingly.