Mumtalakat to take over McLaren
Discussion
DD321 said:
My guess is the headlines about them divesting were to concentrate the minds of the minority shareholders….probably been some tension around capital injections etc. I’d imagine Mumtalakat probably didn’t have to pay too much to take them out.Cheib said:
My guess is the headlines about them divesting were to concentrate the minds of the minority shareholders….probably been some tension around capital injections etc. I’d imagine Mumtalakat probably didn’t have to pay too much to take them out.
Certainly looks that way:https://news.sky.com/story/bahrain-state-fund-take...
"As part of the recapitalisation deal, McLaren's remaining minority shareholders have agreed to convert their equity into warrant-like instruments.
The new contracts will have the economic rights to benefit from a future 'liquidity event' such as an initial public offering or sale of McLaren, but would not be classed as shares."
Looks like Ron got out at the right time...
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024
Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
SydneyBridge said:
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024
Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday...Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
naboo said:
SydneyBridge said:
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024
Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday...Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
SSO said:
naboo said:
SydneyBridge said:
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024
Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday...Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
The 750 seems to be driving the sales, perhaps not surprising given the muted press reception for the Artura, and I suspect the perceived financial stability from the Bahrain investment means potential customers are more confident in being able to get them looked after down the line.
SSO said:
naboo said:
SydneyBridge said:
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024
Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday...Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
As a big McLaren cars fan it is great to see things turning around.
US market is the key to future sales to anchor cash income on.
McL have a materially different and positive vibe in the US compared with other markets, need to leverage that big time!! US buyers are also more willing to MSO their orders which is a very lucrative margin game to tap into.
The SSO article is overly optimistic if it concludes good H2-24 and 2025 figures equates to “ they can start considering the turnaround to be complete” - I believe McL face extreme challenges that will go beyond that timeframe.
Residuals are still a massive problem. In the UK it is increasingly difficult to find customers willing to repeatedly buy new “volume model” McLarens if you continue to take a 6 figure bath for the privilege of being the first owner. Whilst McLaren do offer stand out value and “bang for buck” in the used car market, that doesn’t help McLaren HQ and their EBITDA.
Love the Artura, an amazing drivers car. 700bhp yet managed to give me 60mpg daily driving in central London during my week with it. Love the silent start, no need to annoy neighbours when leaving the house at unsociable hours. Unfortunately I and many other owners can’t stomach the significant bath ordering that car entails. An unintended consequence of already producing amazing cars is the cost of change needs to dramatically come down to persuade existing owners off the “legacy” cars.
McL suffer hugely from lack of model variation. The Solus is such a limited production and track only car, inclusion as part of the model range misinforms the casual reader - the Solus cannot be purchased and doesn’t materially impact sales numbers, in fact were they not all included as part of the 2023 earnings / financials?
I think McL should make benefit of the development costs of the Solus Judd V10 and stick a variant in the P18…now that would really help elevate the P1 replacement against increasing competition in the halo car market. To yet again reuse / rehash another variant of the V8 shows McL are not really learning, nor ambitious. A frequent put down is the V8 lacks “emotion”, a screaming n/a V10 surging past 10,000 rpm would surely remediate.
Ferrari have a long established cult like, deep customer base to be able to ride out their current lack of new car order options. And by limited options, I mean limited by Ferrari standards as to be fair it is no where near as limited as McLaren.
Ending on a positive, the F1 constructors is looking more and more likely, I would bet on McLaren to win this season and agree that will have a positive impact on new car sales. (Btw Oscar has not won two F1 races as the SSO article states.)
Some good points raised.
I think residuals lie solely at the feet of the dealer network, they were too keen to punt new models into customers and the 2nd hand market could go hang. Market values in the EU are way better than here and if build quality and model line up were the issues why hasnt that impacted the EU values to the same degree here
.
Ferrari have been around years, they have had time to grow that fan base, i would say there are good number of Mclaren fans, its well documented on here, people who have had lots of models and remain loyal to the brand, over time im sure that fan base will grow just like the "established" marques, they have come a long long way in a very short amount of time imo.
I dont ever think the Judd V10 could become mainstream, its a race engine that would need work to become a mainstream road engine choice and with everything heading the hybrid way, i just dont see the benefit, was it not mentioned/rumoured that the 750s will be the last solely ice vehicle they do, or am i thinking Lotus Evira? Sadly they are just to late the ICE car hey day. I guess the V6 for the Artura will have cost enough in development to be an engine of choice for the future.
I think residuals lie solely at the feet of the dealer network, they were too keen to punt new models into customers and the 2nd hand market could go hang. Market values in the EU are way better than here and if build quality and model line up were the issues why hasnt that impacted the EU values to the same degree here
.
Ferrari have been around years, they have had time to grow that fan base, i would say there are good number of Mclaren fans, its well documented on here, people who have had lots of models and remain loyal to the brand, over time im sure that fan base will grow just like the "established" marques, they have come a long long way in a very short amount of time imo.
I dont ever think the Judd V10 could become mainstream, its a race engine that would need work to become a mainstream road engine choice and with everything heading the hybrid way, i just dont see the benefit, was it not mentioned/rumoured that the 750s will be the last solely ice vehicle they do, or am i thinking Lotus Evira? Sadly they are just to late the ICE car hey day. I guess the V6 for the Artura will have cost enough in development to be an engine of choice for the future.
r o n n i e said:
SSO said:
naboo said:
SydneyBridge said:
https://ssoreport.com/mclarens-1st-half-2024
Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday...Good news, especially as the F1 team is having a cracking season as well
As a big McLaren cars fan it is great to see things turning around.
US market is the key to future sales to anchor cash income on.
McL have a materially different and positive vibe in the US compared with other markets, need to leverage that big time!! US buyers are also more willing to MSO their orders which is a very lucrative margin game to tap into.
The SSO article is overly optimistic if it concludes good H2-24 and 2025 figures equates to “ they can start considering the turnaround to be complete” - I believe McL face extreme challenges that will go beyond that timeframe.
Residuals are still a massive problem. In the UK it is increasingly difficult to find customers willing to repeatedly buy new “volume model” McLarens if you continue to take a 6 figure bath for the privilege of being the first owner. Whilst McLaren do offer stand out value and “bang for buck” in the used car market, that doesn’t help McLaren HQ and their EBITDA.
Love the Artura, an amazing drivers car. 700bhp yet managed to give me 60mpg daily driving in central London during my week with it. Love the silent start, no need to annoy neighbours when leaving the house at unsociable hours. Unfortunately I and many other owners can’t stomach the significant bath ordering that car entails. An unintended consequence of already producing amazing cars is the cost of change needs to dramatically come down to persuade existing owners off the “legacy” cars.
McL suffer hugely from lack of model variation. The Solus is such a limited production and track only car, inclusion as part of the model range misinforms the casual reader - the Solus cannot be purchased and doesn’t materially impact sales numbers, in fact were they not all included as part of the 2023 earnings / financials?
I think McL should make benefit of the development costs of the Solus Judd V10 and stick a variant in the P18…now that would really help elevate the P1 replacement against increasing competition in the halo car market. To yet again reuse / rehash another variant of the V8 shows McL are not really learning, nor ambitious. A frequent put down is the V8 lacks “emotion”, a screaming n/a V10 surging past 10,000 rpm would surely remediate.
Ferrari have a long established cult like, deep customer base to be able to ride out their current lack of new car order options. And by limited options, I mean limited by Ferrari standards as to be fair it is no where near as limited as McLaren.
Ending on a positive, the F1 constructors is looking more and more likely, I would bet on McLaren to win this season and agree that will have a positive impact on new car sales. (Btw Oscar has not won two F1 races as the SSO article states.)
On hate Solus Judd V10, I did ask about getting that into a road car and was told there is no way it can be made emission compliant.
Streetbeat said:
Some good points raised.
I think residuals lie solely at the feet of the dealer network, they were too keen to punt new models into customers and the 2nd hand market could go hang.
Having worked in auto retail I would disagree - dealers don't control supply. Dealers will only be throwing new models out the door if they are under pressure from the factory to shift stock. Poor residuals are simply a consequence of oversupply and blame for that lies squarely with the factory.I think residuals lie solely at the feet of the dealer network, they were too keen to punt new models into customers and the 2nd hand market could go hang.
Its really hard to justify a brand new McLaren tbh, Arturas specced to £230k were available with delivery miles for sub £200k...ones with 5/6k miles in the classifieds are on at £140k ....that's a shocker in 12-18 months and anyone who bought new close to full rrp must be pretty sick. Fairly new 750s available at £270-280K and those cars were probably specced to £330-350k. They're fantastic driving machines but waiting 2/3 yrs before stepping in has made sense...of course if writing off £100k in 12-18 months is no biggie then more power to you.
ralphrj said:
Having worked in auto retail I would disagree - dealers don't control supply. Dealers will only be throwing new models out the door if they are under pressure from the factory to shift stock. Poor residuals are simply a consequence of oversupply and blame for that lies squarely with the factory.
Surely supply was the same in the EU, so why do they hold up better there, if not for the dealers?ralphrj said:
Streetbeat said:
Some good points raised.
I think residuals lie solely at the feet of the dealer network, they were too keen to punt new models into customers and the 2nd hand market could go hang.
Having worked in auto retail I would disagree - dealers don't control supply. Dealers will only be throwing new models out the door if they are under pressure from the factory to shift stock. Poor residuals are simply a consequence of oversupply and blame for that lies squarely with the factory.I think residuals lie solely at the feet of the dealer network, they were too keen to punt new models into customers and the 2nd hand market could go hang.
Streetbeat said:
ralphrj said:
Having worked in auto retail I would disagree - dealers don't control supply. Dealers will only be throwing new models out the door if they are under pressure from the factory to shift stock. Poor residuals are simply a consequence of oversupply and blame for that lies squarely with the factory.
Surely supply was the same in the EU, so why do they hold up better there, if not for the dealers?My McLaren has been great for me, no issues, lots of fun, stupid fast.
The thing that lets them down is their branding. By this I mean the whole companies approach to franchising their name out to dealerships and the lack of standards that they have over their dealerships.
It's not that they are necessarily doing anything wrong but most other supercar brands are doing it better. I know friends with Ferraris and Lamborghinis that are regularly getting invites to events, post through the mail, loaned newer models when theirs go in for a service etc.
Tbh we got made to feel more special buying a Volvo vs a McLaren both from main dealers.
If they introduced a more thorough guarantee on the service you get buying their cars and they overdelivered on their aftersales/customer service I am sure public opinion would soon change and their sales would rise accordingly.
The thing that lets them down is their branding. By this I mean the whole companies approach to franchising their name out to dealerships and the lack of standards that they have over their dealerships.
It's not that they are necessarily doing anything wrong but most other supercar brands are doing it better. I know friends with Ferraris and Lamborghinis that are regularly getting invites to events, post through the mail, loaned newer models when theirs go in for a service etc.
Tbh we got made to feel more special buying a Volvo vs a McLaren both from main dealers.
If they introduced a more thorough guarantee on the service you get buying their cars and they overdelivered on their aftersales/customer service I am sure public opinion would soon change and their sales would rise accordingly.
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