No more free electric for me after 2016
Discussion
Got a letter from the Department of Regional Development (NI) today advising they are handing over responsibility for the charging network to ESB (Irish electric people) and that it was likely that from the end of 2016 (assuming they can figure out how to) there would be a charge for using public chargers. We were told when we leased the Zoe that free charging was guaranteed until then so it conveniently fits with the end of the lease.
Unfortunately there's no info about how the charging is going to be priced but if they get it wrong it could be a nail in the coffin of EV's.
Unfortunately there's no info about how the charging is going to be priced but if they get it wrong it could be a nail in the coffin of EV's.
Why would it be the 'nail in the coffin'?? I initially liked the idea of 'free' public rapid charging on my Leaf, but now I'm not sure. Someone has to pay for it some where along the line, nothing in life is free, in any case it cost me about 2p/mile to charge my Leaf at home. Our hybrid Lexus that does a true 50mpg still cost 10p/mile in fuel.
It's simply a sign the charging network is maturing, I'm not going back to a petrol car ever again, no way. I'll be ordering a Tesla to replace my Leaf when the PCP deal ends, the Tesla will be by far the most I've spent on any car, but the advantages of the EV drivetrain is so good, even my wife is in agreement that it's money worth spending.
Compared to depreciation costs on something like a £60K Tesla, electricity costs for charging is pocket change, plus the Tesla Supercharger network is totally separate and there the costs are already included in the initial purchase price.
It's simply a sign the charging network is maturing, I'm not going back to a petrol car ever again, no way. I'll be ordering a Tesla to replace my Leaf when the PCP deal ends, the Tesla will be by far the most I've spent on any car, but the advantages of the EV drivetrain is so good, even my wife is in agreement that it's money worth spending.
Compared to depreciation costs on something like a £60K Tesla, electricity costs for charging is pocket change, plus the Tesla Supercharger network is totally separate and there the costs are already included in the initial purchase price.
gangzoom said:
Why would it be the 'nail in the coffin'?? I initially liked the idea of 'free' public rapid charging on my Leaf, but now I'm not sure. Someone has to pay for it some where along the line, nothing in life is free, in any case it cost me about 2p/mile to charge my Leaf at home. Our hybrid Lexus that does a true 50mpg still cost 10p/mile in fuel.
It's simply a sign the charging network is maturing, I'm not going back to a petrol car ever again, no way. I'll be ordering a Tesla to replace my Leaf when the PCP deal ends, the Tesla will be by far the most I've spent on any car, but the advantages of the EV drivetrain is so good, even my wife is in agreement that it's money worth spending.
Compared to depreciation costs on something like a £60K Tesla, electricity costs for charging is pocket change, plus the Tesla Supercharger network is totally separate and there the costs are already included in the initial purchase price.
Costs me approx £2.20 to charge my car overnight at 10p/kwh which gives me a range of 80-90 miles which is roughly the equivalent of 165 miles to gallon. If the public charging cost 20p or 30p/kwh then that equates to 80mpg or 55mpg? It's simply a sign the charging network is maturing, I'm not going back to a petrol car ever again, no way. I'll be ordering a Tesla to replace my Leaf when the PCP deal ends, the Tesla will be by far the most I've spent on any car, but the advantages of the EV drivetrain is so good, even my wife is in agreement that it's money worth spending.
Compared to depreciation costs on something like a £60K Tesla, electricity costs for charging is pocket change, plus the Tesla Supercharger network is totally separate and there the costs are already included in the initial purchase price.
At that price you're getting into the modern diesel mpg without any of the range anxiety or charging infrastructure worries.
First question i get asked about the car is usually about range and most people ignore the number of short journeys they do and discount EV's based on the 2-3 times a year they go to visit their inlaws in the middle of nowhere.
ooo000ooo said:
Got a letter from the Department of Regional Development (NI) today advising they are handing over responsibility for the charging network to ESB (Irish electric people) and that it was likely that from the end of 2016 (assuming they can figure out how to) there would be a charge for using public chargers. We were told when we leased the Zoe that free charging was guaranteed until then so it conveniently fits with the end of the lease.
Unfortunately there's no info about how the charging is going to be priced but if they get it wrong it could be a nail in the coffin of EV's.
ehh ? Why is this remotely a nail in the coffin of ev's ?Unfortunately there's no info about how the charging is going to be priced but if they get it wrong it could be a nail in the coffin of EV's.
I think you'll find that the vast majority of EV owners top their car up nightly, and only use free charging because its there, and occasionally to enable very long distance cruises up motorways.
In 4 yrs and 40,000 ev miles, I've used free top ups at motorway service places less than 10 times so it would hardly be an inconvenience to pay a nominal sum to cover the providers costs etc. It has to be paid for somehow.
And just for the record, I take it you do realise that most EVs will cost the owner around £200 per 10,000 annual miles when charged at home? My last ICE car needed £120 to fill it up every week !
Why should we expect everyone to pay for our electric cars? Face the facts this whole environmental impact of co2 has been vastly overblown and the gravy train off the rails.
My 350e phev comes in December and I hope to get as much subsidy as I can but I know it's selfish and I know I'll be paying more next year and the year after.
I'm just hoping that it continues to cost me less than a proper engine for the next 10 years but I'm under no illusions that everyone else will still be paying towards it by then
My 350e phev comes in December and I hope to get as much subsidy as I can but I know it's selfish and I know I'll be paying more next year and the year after.
I'm just hoping that it continues to cost me less than a proper engine for the next 10 years but I'm under no illusions that everyone else will still be paying towards it by then
supermono said:
Why should we expect everyone to pay for our electric cars? Face the facts this whole environmental impact of co2 has been vastly overblown and the gravy train off the rails.
My 350e phev comes in December and I hope to get as much subsidy as I can but I know it's selfish and I know I'll be paying more next year and the year after.
I'm just hoping that it continues to cost me less than a proper engine for the next 10 years but I'm under no illusions that everyone else will still be paying towards it by then
I agree. I think the best time for EV ownership was from about a year ago and will end in the next year or two or at least get much closer to ICE. My 350e phev comes in December and I hope to get as much subsidy as I can but I know it's selfish and I know I'll be paying more next year and the year after.
I'm just hoping that it continues to cost me less than a proper engine for the next 10 years but I'm under no illusions that everyone else will still be paying towards it by then
The technology is reasonably good now, incentives are however softening whether it's the 5k grant, free charging or low BIK. I've just ordered a Tesla and I doubt I'll get as good a company car deal again, it's already forecast to go up to 9% BIK in my ownership. Its going to be interesting to compare the ownership experience between my current 640d gran coupe which can be bought with options for circa 60k, does 5.5 to 60, 45mpg on a run and the tesla, a 90D which costs more to buy.
Face it folks, the motorist is a cash cow in this country. If EVs take off in any significant way then expect them to be taxed one way or another, whether it be by road pricing or some other means. EVs look so cheap to run because ICE cars are taxed so heavily through the pump. If it was an even playing field (ie little or no tax on fuel) then things would look very different. So enjoy a cheap electric ride while you can.
rovermorris999 said:
Face it folks, the motorist is a cash cow in this country. If EVs take off in any significant way then expect them to be taxed one way or another, whether it be by road pricing or some other means. EVs look so cheap to run because ICE cars are taxed so heavily through the pump. If it was an even playing field (ie little or no tax on fuel) then things would look very different. So enjoy a cheap electric ride while you can.
Before I took up full time EV ownership in the shape of my Leaf cost was certainly a driving factor in my decision to go EV. But now that I've owned and lived with an EV for 6 months I have absolutely 0% interest in owning another petrol/diesel car, regardless of cost. The I'm very likely to spend £50-60K cash on a Tesla in 18 months time, that is a hideous amount of money to spend on any car, and I certainly wouldn't ever considering that much on any petrol powered machine. For me the future is EVs, lower cost helps, but frankly I'm happy to pay a premium to drive an EV these days.
JonV8V said:
I agree. I think the best time for EV ownership was from about a year ago and will end in the next year or two or at least get much closer to ICE.
Really? Charging from home cost should stay the same making evs cheap to run. Bik would still be inline with a smaller engined ice so it's no worse. The removal of the grant, surely in time the cost of production should fall, making the evs cheaper as battery costs are lowered. Also is it possible prices are artificially high because of the grant so there is room to be lowered?I just can't see a 2.0 diesel for example being cheaper to run over an ev?
rovermorris999 said:
Face it folks, the motorist is a cash cow in this country. If EVs take off in any significant way then expect them to be taxed one way or another, whether it be by road pricing or some other means. EVs look so cheap to run because ICE cars are taxed so heavily through the pump. If it was an even playing field (ie little or no tax on fuel) then things would look very different. So enjoy a cheap electric ride while you can.
Of course, but there has to be at least another decade or two before there would be enough ev usage to represent a significant loss of tax revenues and thus a change in the way vehicles are taxed.Even Norway only has 1 ev in every 100 cars.
Look at lpg, people have said the same about gas for years.
So should be a cheap ride for a while yet!
Carparticus said:
ehh ? Why is this remotely a nail in the coffin of ev's ?
I think you'll find that the vast majority of EV owners top their car up nightly, and only use free charging because its there, and occasionally to enable very long distance cruises up motorways.
In 4 yrs and 40,000 ev miles, I've used free top ups at motorway service places less than 10 times so it would hardly be an inconvenience to pay a nominal sum to cover the providers costs etc. It has to be paid for somehow.
And just for the record, I take it you do realise that most EVs will cost the owner around £200 per 10,000 annual miles when charged at home? My last ICE car needed £120 to fill it up every week !
Isn't it wonderful. Every mile I drive I whoosh along happy that I'm (1) having fun, (2) saving money, (3) denying the chancellor the opportunity to misuse my hard-earned loot that's stolen off me using a method of extortion called "taxes".I think you'll find that the vast majority of EV owners top their car up nightly, and only use free charging because its there, and occasionally to enable very long distance cruises up motorways.
In 4 yrs and 40,000 ev miles, I've used free top ups at motorway service places less than 10 times so it would hardly be an inconvenience to pay a nominal sum to cover the providers costs etc. It has to be paid for somehow.
And just for the record, I take it you do realise that most EVs will cost the owner around £200 per 10,000 annual miles when charged at home? My last ICE car needed £120 to fill it up every week !
I LOVE my Leaf. In due course I can see a Tesla in my future....P85D "Ludicrous" speed anyone?
trowelhead said:
JonV8V said:
I agree. I think the best time for EV ownership was from about a year ago and will end in the next year or two or at least get much closer to ICE.
Really? Charging from home cost should stay the same making evs cheap to run. Bik would still be inline with a smaller engined ice so it's no worse. The removal of the grant, surely in time the cost of production should fall, making the evs cheaper as battery costs are lowered. Also is it possible prices are artificially high because of the grant so there is room to be lowered?I just can't see a 2.0 diesel for example being cheaper to run over an ev?
Free charging away from home may end
BIK going up
Diesel dropping in price
Road tax going up unless zero co2
I didn't say it wouldn't still be good, I was saying it wouldn't be as good as it was. If you keep a car for 3 years and buy now the costs of ownership in year 3 could be much higher than now
JonV8V said:
5k grant talk of it Going soon
Free charging away from home may end
BIK going up
Diesel dropping in price
Road tax going up unless zero co2
I didn't say it wouldn't still be good, I was saying it wouldn't be as good as it was. If you keep a car for 3 years and buy now the costs of ownership in year 3 could be much higher than now
5k grant talk of it Going soon - as i said above, battery tech gets cheaper so prices could come down. Artificial inflation of prices from dealers (because of 5k grant) could also mean this is not that significant if it happensFree charging away from home may end
BIK going up
Diesel dropping in price
Road tax going up unless zero co2
I didn't say it wouldn't still be good, I was saying it wouldn't be as good as it was. If you keep a car for 3 years and buy now the costs of ownership in year 3 could be much higher than now
Free charging away from home may end - will probably be still a hell of a lot cheaper than filling up with fuel
BIK going up - yes, only to same level as ICE
Diesel dropping in price - really? Going to have to drop a lot to match price of "filling up" an EV at £2 a time.
Road tax going up unless zero co2 - But i thought all EVs are zero co2?
Still looks fairly compelling to me
trowelhead said:
5k grant talk of it Going soon - as i said above, battery tech gets cheaper so prices could come down. Artificial inflation of prices from dealers (because of 5k grant) could also mean this is not that significant if it happens
Free charging away from home may end - will probably be still a hell of a lot cheaper than filling up with fuel
BIK going up - yes, only to same level as ICE
Diesel dropping in price - really? Going to have to drop a lot to match price of "filling up" an EV at £2 a time.
Road tax going up unless zero co2 - But i thought all EVs are zero co2?
Still looks fairly compelling to me
Company car lease:Free charging away from home may end - will probably be still a hell of a lot cheaper than filling up with fuel
BIK going up - yes, only to same level as ICE
Diesel dropping in price - really? Going to have to drop a lot to match price of "filling up" an EV at £2 a time.
Road tax going up unless zero co2 - But i thought all EVs are zero co2?
Still looks fairly compelling to me
BMW 535D circa £900 inc BIK charges
Fuel per month based on 25k miles a year circa £400
12k business miles a year gives me £160 back a month in expenses, net fuel £240 month
Total cost of running the car a month £1140
Tesla 85D circa £1100 inc BIK charges
Fuel for 25k a year using free where possible and 1 charge a week at home £40 a month
Total cost for running the Tesla is £1140
Looks pretty close to me.
YMMV
Just to resurrect this from the dead, EV owners in Southern Ireland received emails today advising "Beginning later this month new ESB ecars customers will be asked to sign up to a monthly fee of €16.99 (VAT inclusive) to access the public charging network, with payment coming into effect from January 4th 2016. Existing ESB ecars customers will continue to have access to the charging Infrastructure until April 2016 at no cost." Use of a fast charger will be 30c per minute.
Doesn't appear to be any options for pay as you go, so you have to pay a monthly fee just in case you might need a charge when out and about.
Doesn't appear to be any options for pay as you go, so you have to pay a monthly fee just in case you might need a charge when out and about.
So the POLAR network in the UK had been £20 a year - and PAYG.
Now it's something like £10 a month - and a big chunk of charging thrown in.
I only ever charge my Leaf at home so that was that. I still have Ecotricity membership. Whilst that's £10 a year I'll keep it. If they start the £10 a month I'll give up on that too. My EV usage is all local so there's just no point. If I had a Tesla and was trying to make my EV my only car it would be a very frustrating situation. As it is? They just lost a customer...
Now it's something like £10 a month - and a big chunk of charging thrown in.
I only ever charge my Leaf at home so that was that. I still have Ecotricity membership. Whilst that's £10 a year I'll keep it. If they start the £10 a month I'll give up on that too. My EV usage is all local so there's just no point. If I had a Tesla and was trying to make my EV my only car it would be a very frustrating situation. As it is? They just lost a customer...
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