Discussion
Hi All,
I'm thinking of getting something mega waftmatic.
Should I just buy something already converted, or convert myself? What are the general costs? Are there many LPG stations??....sorry for all the questions.
I'm thinking S500, 7series or Cyanne 4.5S.
Anything I should look at or think about??
Iceboy
I'm thinking of getting something mega waftmatic.
Should I just buy something already converted, or convert myself? What are the general costs? Are there many LPG stations??....sorry for all the questions.
I'm thinking S500, 7series or Cyanne 4.5S.
Anything I should look at or think about??
Iceboy
You can use this to check for LPG filling stations near to where you live/work/drive regularly.
http://www.filllpg.co.uk/index.php?page=lpg.php
Make sure you get a big LPG tank as if the one you have is too small then filling up every couple of hundred miles gets very old, very quickly.
http://www.filllpg.co.uk/index.php?page=lpg.php
Make sure you get a big LPG tank as if the one you have is too small then filling up every couple of hundred miles gets very old, very quickly.
Any other advice, particularly on the cars i'm looking at?
What should I be thinking of regarding:
Servicing?
Does it effect other things in the engine?
I guess warantee will be void if new'ish car?
I understand performance is a little muted but is it is a V8 with 320bhp+ then that should be OK right!?
IceBoy
What should I be thinking of regarding:
Servicing?
Does it effect other things in the engine?
I guess warantee will be void if new'ish car?
I understand performance is a little muted but is it is a V8 with 320bhp+ then that should be OK right!?
IceBoy
Edited by IceBoy on Monday 2nd November 09:03
One thing worth noting is that Eurotunnel will not accept an LPG converted vehicle, even if the tank is empty.
http://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/site-information/lpg/
http://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/site-information/lpg/
1) I don't really notice the difference in power given that I do most of my driving in London West End so don't go very fast! But motorway driving is solid, smooth and with a V8 you don't notice the difference too much.
2) Fuel consumption is good. Normally I put £100 a week in, now its approx £40-50 (Full tank on mine is £45-ish based on 65L/70L tank from memory. I fill up at a place very close to me which is circa £0.49/L
3) Wear and tear is fine. As normally expected with a 8 yo FFRR.
I should say that when I purchased mine LPG was already fitted by the last owner.
2) Fuel consumption is good. Normally I put £100 a week in, now its approx £40-50 (Full tank on mine is £45-ish based on 65L/70L tank from memory. I fill up at a place very close to me which is circa £0.49/L
3) Wear and tear is fine. As normally expected with a 8 yo FFRR.
I should say that when I purchased mine LPG was already fitted by the last owner.
Servicing seems pretty straightforward & I guess if you were considering fitting a system yourself changing a few filters won't bother you. I was paying around £100 to service about every 10k.
I had a Volvo V70 for 5 years & it was a perfect car in that time. Only changed to Merc Diesel as the fuel costs are about the same now.
Had my system fitted for around £1700 in 2008. I would think buying your car already converted is your best bet as I don't think I got a great deal more money for it when I sold it, I've never had so many calls on a car though.
Make sure you get LPG certificate from the seller or check its on LPG register before buying it & you will also get a slight reduction in VED, as long as it's on LPG register.
If you buy a system to fit remember you really do 'Get what you pay for' & make sure you have a separate lube system too.
We still have an Astra with LPG & fuel costs under 10ppm.
Good luck finding your perfect Wafter.
Probably get some nay sayers in later with tales of woe. In total I reckon I've done 200k on LPG in both cars & all I needed over servicing was a new injector for the Astra @ 150k.
Never had problem getting LPG either.
I had a Volvo V70 for 5 years & it was a perfect car in that time. Only changed to Merc Diesel as the fuel costs are about the same now.
Had my system fitted for around £1700 in 2008. I would think buying your car already converted is your best bet as I don't think I got a great deal more money for it when I sold it, I've never had so many calls on a car though.
Make sure you get LPG certificate from the seller or check its on LPG register before buying it & you will also get a slight reduction in VED, as long as it's on LPG register.
If you buy a system to fit remember you really do 'Get what you pay for' & make sure you have a separate lube system too.
We still have an Astra with LPG & fuel costs under 10ppm.
Good luck finding your perfect Wafter.
Probably get some nay sayers in later with tales of woe. In total I reckon I've done 200k on LPG in both cars & all I needed over servicing was a new injector for the Astra @ 150k.
Never had problem getting LPG either.
My dad has a Jeep with the 5.7 V8, which had a LPG kit fitted by the previous owner.
Availability of fuel is mixed - in some areas such as Bristol and Wales, it's everywhere and incredibly cheap, in other areas such as where we live in south east london, there's just one LPG station, which sells it at 58ppl. Availability is very good abroad - it's at most petrol stations in Europe, and particularly in Belgium it's only about 30c per litre. Of course, you can still use the car on petrol, so if you run out of LPG and can't find a station it's not the end of the world.
I'd estimate there's around a 10-15% power loss - it's not very noticeable, but it's definitely there. The car is more than quick enough for what it is anyway though, so it doesn't bother us.
We have a relatively big tank fitted (think it's an 80 or 90 litre), but even by big 4x4 standards, it's an incredibly uneconomical car, regardless of if you're running it on LPG or petrol. It averages around 15MPG on LPG, so almost 30MPG equivalent. On a long journey, you do get the feeling that you're having to stop to fill up quite a lot, but that's mainly because if I see a cheap LPG station I'll stop to put some in whether or not it's empty.
We've had no problems with the LPG kit at all - I think it was quite an expensive installation, and has been on the car since nearly new. We get it serviced at a local LPG specialist every year - can't remember how much it costs, but it's far less than even a minor car service.
Availability of fuel is mixed - in some areas such as Bristol and Wales, it's everywhere and incredibly cheap, in other areas such as where we live in south east london, there's just one LPG station, which sells it at 58ppl. Availability is very good abroad - it's at most petrol stations in Europe, and particularly in Belgium it's only about 30c per litre. Of course, you can still use the car on petrol, so if you run out of LPG and can't find a station it's not the end of the world.
I'd estimate there's around a 10-15% power loss - it's not very noticeable, but it's definitely there. The car is more than quick enough for what it is anyway though, so it doesn't bother us.
We have a relatively big tank fitted (think it's an 80 or 90 litre), but even by big 4x4 standards, it's an incredibly uneconomical car, regardless of if you're running it on LPG or petrol. It averages around 15MPG on LPG, so almost 30MPG equivalent. On a long journey, you do get the feeling that you're having to stop to fill up quite a lot, but that's mainly because if I see a cheap LPG station I'll stop to put some in whether or not it's empty.
We've had no problems with the LPG kit at all - I think it was quite an expensive installation, and has been on the car since nearly new. We get it serviced at a local LPG specialist every year - can't remember how much it costs, but it's far less than even a minor car service.
If the car is down on power after the conversion then, as long as the injectors aren't at their duty limit and the vaporizer can flow enough gas, it can be corrected by tweaking the mapping.
A properly specced and mapped multi-point injection kit shouldn't lose any power at all but it will probably take an extra visit or two to a good installer to get the map absolutely spot on. Most people don't bother as it's only a very marginal loss.
A properly specced and mapped multi-point injection kit shouldn't lose any power at all but it will probably take an extra visit or two to a good installer to get the map absolutely spot on. Most people don't bother as it's only a very marginal loss.
I'd agree that buying something already converted will be much cheaper than having a conversion, but there might be very little choice. If you are planning on keeping it a while then finding your 'perfect' vehicle and then having it converted by a good specialist might be worth it.
Some vehicles can have problems with valve seat wear, but you can get kits that draw small amounts of lubrating oil into the engine to combat this. I think there is some doubt as to whether they actually have an effect though.
Some vehicles can have problems with valve seat wear, but you can get kits that draw small amounts of lubrating oil into the engine to combat this. I think there is some doubt as to whether they actually have an effect though.
Make sure you do the calculations if converting yourself. You need to factor in the likely mileage you'll do, the cost of the conversion and then how long it will take to pay back those costs on the basis of the difference per mile.
There are benefits to running LPG in terms of engine life - LPG doesn't make the oil go black nearly as quickly as other fuels. It doesn't cause carbon issues.
There are also drawbacks - non-stainless exhausts will rot faster (higher water vapour content in the exhaust), your engine may run slightly hotter.
Also be careful how the vapouriser is plumbed into the cooling system. It can affect the efficiency of the heater if not done well.
There has been much talk (and there are now some available) of liquid injection systems where the LPG is injected as a liquid instead of being converted to a gas before hand. These give better power, economy and are much simpler as they can use the car's own ECU.
Worth looking to find out if one of these systems is available for your car.
Some guff about it here:
http://www.lpgli.com/features.html and here http://www.gasitaly.com/gilsi
There are benefits to running LPG in terms of engine life - LPG doesn't make the oil go black nearly as quickly as other fuels. It doesn't cause carbon issues.
There are also drawbacks - non-stainless exhausts will rot faster (higher water vapour content in the exhaust), your engine may run slightly hotter.
Also be careful how the vapouriser is plumbed into the cooling system. It can affect the efficiency of the heater if not done well.
There has been much talk (and there are now some available) of liquid injection systems where the LPG is injected as a liquid instead of being converted to a gas before hand. These give better power, economy and are much simpler as they can use the car's own ECU.
Worth looking to find out if one of these systems is available for your car.
Some guff about it here:
http://www.lpgli.com/features.html and here http://www.gasitaly.com/gilsi
IceBoy said:
Hi All,
I'm thinking of getting something mega waftmatic.
Should I just buy something already converted, or convert myself? What are the general costs? Are there many LPG stations??....sorry for all the questions.
I'm thinking S500, 7series or Cyanne 4.5S.
Anything I should look at or think about??
Iceboy
I think that the biggest question to ask yourself is: "How long am I going to keep the car?" swiftly followed by "How many miles am I likely to do per year", I'd imagine that for a weekend toy it'd not be worthwhile - for a daily commuter moresoI'm thinking of getting something mega waftmatic.
Should I just buy something already converted, or convert myself? What are the general costs? Are there many LPG stations??....sorry for all the questions.
I'm thinking S500, 7series or Cyanne 4.5S.
Anything I should look at or think about??
Iceboy
Riley Blue said:
Why not? It's just another combustible fuel that you carry around in liquid form in a tank.
Maybe because:1) Limited LPG availability in some parts of the country
2) You lose boot space
3) You use more LPG than petrol, so range isn't as good unless you fit a huge tank.
4) When they go wrong you often need a specialist to fix them.
charltjr said:
Make sure you get a big LPG tank as if the one you have is too small then filling up every couple of hundred miles gets very old, very quickly.
This is very, very true. My 4.0 Jeep has maybe an 80 litre tank, didn't seem to last very long. Was running around 18mpg on mud tyres.
4.7 v8 Jeep has c.180 litres across two tanks, running at around 11mpg on mud tyres. Filled up in Morrisons the other week, cut off at 100 litres, asked the guy if it was auto cut off and he told me no one has ever needed more than 100. Was pretty surprised when I fitted another 40 litres in it!
Both conversions done before I bought them, wouldn't have ever paid to do it myself as I don't do the miles. However I wouldn't have bought the V8 without it even as a weekend toy.
The 4.7 I've lost the spare wheel well and a massive chunk of the boot. It beeps a bit on full throttle (wanting to go to petrol) for an extended burst but doesn't cut out or anything.
It extends the range of the vehicle, if you're going to be in the middle of nowhere for a long time you can fill petrol and LPG. If there is an issue with it you can run it on petrol only until you get it to a specialist.
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