Discussion
robemcdonald said:
Kermit power said:
robemcdonald said:
I would do, but I don’t know what any of that means.
Anyone else had an issue with starter motors?
Mine has just had its third one fitted.
I've just had the first one replaced under warranty after about 21 months and 16 miles. Anyone else had an issue with starter motors?
Mine has just had its third one fitted.
I confess, I do worry about the starter a bit. The amount of use it gets must vary wildly depending on your driving habits. Does it get more use than a 'normal' stop/start car would in city traffic? There are times I think it might be nice to have a bit of control over it.
Back to batteries....
@Jackcramerr, the car doesn't have a 12V alternator, so must rely on charging either from the main motor/generator or probably more likely, via a power supply fed from the HV battery I suspect.
Given that the main motor/generator is downstream of the clutch that isolates the ICE, I doubt it's possible to get it to turn without putting the car into CHARGE mode, although I guess if it was very flat the car might do that anyway.
Basically, I dunno - there is so little information out there about the details of how this car works. I'd love to know more, purely out of interest to satisfy the engineer in me.
What's your theory anyway?
Back to batteries....
@Jackcramerr, the car doesn't have a 12V alternator, so must rely on charging either from the main motor/generator or probably more likely, via a power supply fed from the HV battery I suspect.
Given that the main motor/generator is downstream of the clutch that isolates the ICE, I doubt it's possible to get it to turn without putting the car into CHARGE mode, although I guess if it was very flat the car might do that anyway.
Basically, I dunno - there is so little information out there about the details of how this car works. I'd love to know more, purely out of interest to satisfy the engineer in me.
What's your theory anyway?
An interesting question to me is whether the starter motors should be considered to be failing (even though I think Mercedes replaced mine under warranty) or whether the increased use in a PHEV means they should really be viewed as a consumable service item like brake discs?
I wonder if it's even possible to engineer a starter motor to last the expected life of such a vehicle, at least at an acceptable weight and cost?
I wonder if it's even possible to engineer a starter motor to last the expected life of such a vehicle, at least at an acceptable weight and cost?
Kermit power said:
I wonder if it's even possible to engineer a starter motor to last the expected life of such a vehicle, at least at an acceptable weight and cost?
The Prius manages it, although AFAIK it doesn't have a starter motor as such, just the motor/generator unit. Mine cuts in and out dozens of times every trip so it can be done!I do a lot of stop start urban driving and I reckon my old diesel BMW used the starter motor more than the C350e. Even if you have minimum battery charge you can creep along in a queue without engaging the starter. You can’t do that in a conventional car - even if you are only moving a car length you have to start the engine.
If the engine is required at speed, does it use the starter motor, or does it “bump” start it somehow?
If the engine is required at speed, does it use the starter motor, or does it “bump” start it somehow?
Jackcramerr said:
What I want to compare is voltage of the starting battery. It is simple task. Use a Digital Multi Meter and check the dc voltage accross the terminals that is used to charge/ jump start the car. This is located under the bonnet. I need value of the morning when the car is sitting over night. Do not start the car.
12.3 volts. Jackcramerr said:
MB replaced start stop battery. Saying xentry reports g1/13 internal resistance of 1275 mOhm while it should be less than 100.
The battery itself is small. Much smaller than the one in youtube video so those instructions might not be valid for all c350e.
Has that sorted your problems then? What's your voltage reading now?The battery itself is small. Much smaller than the one in youtube video so those instructions might not be valid for all c350e.
You can set the charge power on the dash, and can monitor the figure on the app. or website. It typically charges at the set rate until the last 10-15 minutes where it tails off.
As for the energy used for a charge, it depends on how flat it was of course. Lots of guesses in my numbers, but I don’t think they are wildly out.
Without knowing what %age charge remained when you started to charge, can’t really comment I’m afraid.
Having the charger give you an energy used figure is handy though!
FWIW, yesterday on a short trip out, the car suggested 12 miles range at 100%, drove a round trip of 12 miles and it showed 1 mile range left when we got home.
As for the energy used for a charge, it depends on how flat it was of course. Lots of guesses in my numbers, but I don’t think they are wildly out.
Without knowing what %age charge remained when you started to charge, can’t really comment I’m afraid.
Having the charger give you an energy used figure is handy though!
FWIW, yesterday on a short trip out, the car suggested 12 miles range at 100%, drove a round trip of 12 miles and it showed 1 mile range left when we got home.
Is it the maxium charge current in settings-hybrid menu?
Today Dash shows 38% with range prediction of 2 miles left. Before I took off the prediction range of 6 miles showed and it gave me 3 miles of engine off today. Yesterday 3 miles of engine off when it was fully charged and prediction showed 10 miles range.
Now charging the car and will know shortly how much it consumed for full charge.
Love that I have not used a drop of petrol.
Today Dash shows 38% with range prediction of 2 miles left. Before I took off the prediction range of 6 miles showed and it gave me 3 miles of engine off today. Yesterday 3 miles of engine off when it was fully charged and prediction showed 10 miles range.
Now charging the car and will know shortly how much it consumed for full charge.
Love that I have not used a drop of petrol.
Personally, I find that temperature makes more of a difference than anything else to range.
I frequently run my wife to work on Wednesday early mornings, which is a 7 mile round trip. On a warm midsummer's day, I'll easily do it just on battery power, and get home with around 6 miles range still showing. On a sub-zero winter morning, I'll be lucky if the battery lasts the outward leg.
This week, I forgot to plug the car in to charge, so had to do it on petrol alone. It was quite startling to see just how much more petrol you use until the engine has warmed up! Admittedly it's a bit uphill on the way there and a bit downhill on the way back, but even so, it was telling me I'd done 16.7 mpg on the way there, and that had gone up to 30.2 by the time I got home!!
I frequently run my wife to work on Wednesday early mornings, which is a 7 mile round trip. On a warm midsummer's day, I'll easily do it just on battery power, and get home with around 6 miles range still showing. On a sub-zero winter morning, I'll be lucky if the battery lasts the outward leg.
This week, I forgot to plug the car in to charge, so had to do it on petrol alone. It was quite startling to see just how much more petrol you use until the engine has warmed up! Admittedly it's a bit uphill on the way there and a bit downhill on the way back, but even so, it was telling me I'd done 16.7 mpg on the way there, and that had gone up to 30.2 by the time I got home!!
Hi Rick. Not fixated on prediction but it is accurate enough.
So based on what I have said i.e. it showed battery at 38% and showed 2 mile range left at 17 C today. Start of journey it showed 6 miles and I did 3 miles. Charged the car to 100% and it consumed 3.51Kw. Brought the prediction range to 10 miles.
This means 10-2=8 miles.
8 miles of predicition range consumed 3.51Kw
That suggests
1 mile takes 0.43875
10 mile will take 4.3875
12 mile will be 5.265
14 will be 6.142
I am looking how chris suggested, working out how much battery is getting chatged to work out the range.
Don't you guys think it should be 5.265KW approx it should have consumed? Ideally it should be 6.142KW and show 14 miles. 17C is hot, is not cold.
So based on what I have said i.e. it showed battery at 38% and showed 2 mile range left at 17 C today. Start of journey it showed 6 miles and I did 3 miles. Charged the car to 100% and it consumed 3.51Kw. Brought the prediction range to 10 miles.
This means 10-2=8 miles.
8 miles of predicition range consumed 3.51Kw
That suggests
1 mile takes 0.43875
10 mile will take 4.3875
12 mile will be 5.265
14 will be 6.142
I am looking how chris suggested, working out how much battery is getting chatged to work out the range.
Don't you guys think it should be 5.265KW approx it should have consumed? Ideally it should be 6.142KW and show 14 miles. 17C is hot, is not cold.
Range is so dependent on how and where and when you drive, it’s almost irrelevant as an absolute, although a regular trip can be a guide I suppose. I’m convinced the only useful indicator of battery health is to measure energy used to charge from a known state up to full, and even then, only as a long term comparison as we simply don’t know what 0% and 100% actually mean. Not even sure we can be certain that the stated capacity of the battery can be taken as gospel. For all we know, it could be usable capacity??
I suppose it’s hard to avoid obsessing over the damn thing simply because it’s so small. If it was 30kWh we’d probably not bother about it all that much.
Today’s trip to the shops. Started with 12 indicated, round trip of 9, finished with 3 indicated and 34%
Should probably call it a lie-o-meter.
Always bugged me that the display on the tachometer that was supposed to show battery %age according to the early promo material is simply a fixed ‘0’ sat between the power used/regen bargraphs too.
I suppose it’s hard to avoid obsessing over the damn thing simply because it’s so small. If it was 30kWh we’d probably not bother about it all that much.
Today’s trip to the shops. Started with 12 indicated, round trip of 9, finished with 3 indicated and 34%
Should probably call it a lie-o-meter.
Always bugged me that the display on the tachometer that was supposed to show battery %age according to the early promo material is simply a fixed ‘0’ sat between the power used/regen bargraphs too.
My driving has improved a lot due to this car.
I do not use any brakes at all during my journey. Not once unless I have to park the car.
Never go past 30 miles and accelerate slow. I am sure people behind me are annoyed as f but I do not care about them. No AC nothing. I am aiming to squeeze miles so I am not driving 'practical' at all.
Would be ideal if battery was bigger and faster charge. Otherwise it is a perfect car and well worth it.
I do not use any brakes at all during my journey. Not once unless I have to park the car.
Never go past 30 miles and accelerate slow. I am sure people behind me are annoyed as f but I do not care about them. No AC nothing. I am aiming to squeeze miles so I am not driving 'practical' at all.
Would be ideal if battery was bigger and faster charge. Otherwise it is a perfect car and well worth it.
Jackcramerr said:
My driving has improved a lot due to this car.
I do not use any brakes at all during my journey. Not once unless I have to park the car.
Never go past 30 miles and accelerate slow. I am sure people behind me are annoyed as f but I do not care about them. No AC nothing. I am aiming to squeeze miles so I am not driving 'practical' at all.
Would be ideal if battery was bigger and faster charge. Otherwise it is a perfect car and well worth it.
Haha! Why bother? Get a bike. I do not use any brakes at all during my journey. Not once unless I have to park the car.
Never go past 30 miles and accelerate slow. I am sure people behind me are annoyed as f but I do not care about them. No AC nothing. I am aiming to squeeze miles so I am not driving 'practical' at all.
Would be ideal if battery was bigger and faster charge. Otherwise it is a perfect car and well worth it.
Jackcramerr said:
My driving has improved a lot due to this car.
I do not use any brakes at all during my journey. Not once unless I have to park the car.
Never go past 30 miles and accelerate slow. I am sure people behind me are annoyed as f but I do not care about them. No AC nothing. I am aiming to squeeze miles so I am not driving 'practical' at all.
Would be ideal if battery was bigger and faster charge. Otherwise it is a perfect car and well worth it.
So in your estimation a better driver is one that annoys other drivers by doing everything very slowly whilst either sweating profusely or being unable to see properly due to steamed up windows?I do not use any brakes at all during my journey. Not once unless I have to park the car.
Never go past 30 miles and accelerate slow. I am sure people behind me are annoyed as f but I do not care about them. No AC nothing. I am aiming to squeeze miles so I am not driving 'practical' at all.
Would be ideal if battery was bigger and faster charge. Otherwise it is a perfect car and well worth it.
OK..
Jackcramerr said:
My driving has improved a lot due to this car.
I do not use any brakes at all during my journey. Not once unless I have to park the car.
Never go past 30 miles and accelerate slow. I am sure people behind me are annoyed as f but I do not care about them. No AC nothing. I am aiming to squeeze miles so I am not driving 'practical' at all.
Would be ideal if battery was bigger and faster charge. Otherwise it is a perfect car and well worth it.
What a bizarre post! You would have been financially far better off running a Dacia Sandero than trying to squeeze an extra 1 mpg out of a two tonne Merc. What’s the point in paying for a car with climate control, sunroof and heated seats and then not using them? Have you taken all the bulbs out of the lights too?! I do not use any brakes at all during my journey. Not once unless I have to park the car.
Never go past 30 miles and accelerate slow. I am sure people behind me are annoyed as f but I do not care about them. No AC nothing. I am aiming to squeeze miles so I am not driving 'practical' at all.
Would be ideal if battery was bigger and faster charge. Otherwise it is a perfect car and well worth it.
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