I8 values in free fall....Why?
Discussion
RDMcG said:
I loved the look of the i8 and was eager to drive it.
- Stull can't get my head around the artificial engine sound.
- drive competently but no visceral excitement.
This will be a constant of EV's.- Stull can't get my head around the artificial engine sound.
- drive competently but no visceral excitement.
It's an mp3 file compared with going to the actual concert.
With the amount Amazon shopping I"m a big fan of E Vans coming on
Helicopter123 said:
RJG46 said:
garyhun said:
For a £100k+ car, available for £50k, I’d say £5k for battery replacement seems pretty good value.
The
That’s tempting me now.
Seems rather unlikely. Are there any actual factuals regarding new battery costs.The
That’s tempting me now.
And that's the i3 not the i8.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Or around the same as a Porsche m96/97 engine rebuild then.
Indeed, scary stuff.The thing is though, not all m96/97 engines need a rebuild, but all i8 will need a new battery pack, and then another as it's a consumable really.
I just think we need to be honest about the downside for early adopters of high performance electric cars.
Helicopter123 said:
garyhun said:
From MrOrange's post above.
If a second hand i3 battery pack is £6k + fitting, a new i8 battery pack is surely quite a bit more?£10k - £15k fitted would be my guess.
The i3 battery (22,33 and 42.2 kw/h) is dramatically bigger than the i8 battery(7.1 kw/h), as the i3 is a full EV.
The pack is only 7kW so not really a major component in the same way as the 100kW battery in a Tesla floor.
Currently, each of the 6 High-Voltage battery modules can be replaced seperately and they are the same as the i3. Today’s price for a single cell module (BMW part no. 61 27 8 610 459 https://www.bmwautoparts.net/en/catalog/part/61278... is about €1k so raw cost of about £5k plus fitting, less the px for the old cells. These are, I think, the high density packs.
The battery warranty is 8 years, so a 2016 car won’t need this paying for until 2024 at the earliest and even then I would expect BMW to help with some of the cost for a car kept in warranty and properly serviced. Also, I would hope remanufactured cell modules to come down in price dramatically in the next 5 years.
Too much is made of the replacement cost FUD argument, it’s just another component cost and despite the i8 being fiercely complex (two cooling systems, 2 gear boxes, 3 motors) all of the technology is well understood and developed to a point of it being very reliable with few known issues.
Currently, each of the 6 High-Voltage battery modules can be replaced seperately and they are the same as the i3. Today’s price for a single cell module (BMW part no. 61 27 8 610 459 https://www.bmwautoparts.net/en/catalog/part/61278... is about €1k so raw cost of about £5k plus fitting, less the px for the old cells. These are, I think, the high density packs.
The battery warranty is 8 years, so a 2016 car won’t need this paying for until 2024 at the earliest and even then I would expect BMW to help with some of the cost for a car kept in warranty and properly serviced. Also, I would hope remanufactured cell modules to come down in price dramatically in the next 5 years.
Too much is made of the replacement cost FUD argument, it’s just another component cost and despite the i8 being fiercely complex (two cooling systems, 2 gear boxes, 3 motors) all of the technology is well understood and developed to a point of it being very reliable with few known issues.
Thanks Mr Orange!
My feelings stay as they are, seems like a fantastic bargain, even with battery replacement, and I am very tempted.
BMW loaned me an i8 for 4 days last Summer and it was a fabulous experience. Smooth, fast (enough for me), back seats provide great extra storage and those doors!
My feelings stay as they are, seems like a fantastic bargain, even with battery replacement, and I am very tempted.
BMW loaned me an i8 for 4 days last Summer and it was a fabulous experience. Smooth, fast (enough for me), back seats provide great extra storage and those doors!
Helicopter123 said:
If a second hand i3 battery pack is £6k + fitting, a new i8 battery pack is surely quite a bit more?
£10k - £15k fitted would be my guess.
Yes, that would be your guess. Which is why it's just made up rubbish.£10k - £15k fitted would be my guess.
The i8 has a tiny battery pack which in 2024 or whenever it's out of warranty will be cheap as chips to replace, I'd be much more worried about the non-EV side of the i8 which is just a nightmare to even read about.
When the i3 94Ah car came out there were various threads saying a battery pack upgrade for the 60Ah model would cost about £10k. Apparently BMW did offer this upgrade in Germany but not elsewhere. Having said that, I've never seen a post from someone saying they'd had it done. I assume people found it to be cheaper to sell the 60Ah model and buy a 94Ah model.
As the i3 pack is about twice the capacity of the i8, can one assume the i8 cost would be about half? Or, will the i8 attract a premium due to where BMW want it to sit n the market, i.e. a "super car" and not an urban run around?
As the i3 pack is about twice the capacity of the i8, can one assume the i8 cost would be about half? Or, will the i8 attract a premium due to where BMW want it to sit n the market, i.e. a "super car" and not an urban run around?
uknick said:
As the i3 pack is about twice the capacity of the i8, can one assume the i8 cost would be about half? Or, will the i8 attract a premium due to where BMW want it to sit n the market, i.e. a "super car" and not an urban run around?
This is the trouble, it's not how big the battery is but how much BMW think they charge for a new one.uknick said:
As the i3 pack is about twice the capacity of the i8, can one assume the i8 cost would be about half? Or, will the i8 attract a premium due to where BMW want it to sit n the market, i.e. a "super car" and not an urban run around?
Actually about a third. The packs are identical to the i3 so should be markedly cheaper to replace.i8 battery options are 7-12kW (original and LCI model)
i3 battery is 22-42kW
However, Samsung have rated (to 80% capacity) the latest battery to run to 4,500 full charge cycles. That’s maybe 15 or 20 years use in most i8s, and over 500k miles in an i3. Both cars use thermal battery management and very conservative power/charge profiles.
It’s mostly a non/low-risk issue but fear does depress 2nd hand prices. Once the world wakes up to the long-term reliability the prices may reflect increasing faith in the tech.
Just because the battery warranty expires after 8 years why would the battery suddenly require replacement ?
ICE cars only come with a 3yr warranty...don’t see anyone budgeting for an Engine replacement after 3 years!
They had to offer 8yrs to offer some confidence to the nayslayers, not because that’s its shelf life.
Would easily expect it to last 15yrs
ICE cars only come with a 3yr warranty...don’t see anyone budgeting for an Engine replacement after 3 years!
They had to offer 8yrs to offer some confidence to the nayslayers, not because that’s its shelf life.
Would easily expect it to last 15yrs
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