Tesla Model 3 revealed
Discussion
p1stonhead said:
How would you have decades of running a sports car if you buy an equivalent ICE car costing the same £35k? Or is this the utterly irrelevant 'buy a £10k car and have £25k for petrol' angle?
No same purchase price. Edited by p1stonhead on Saturday 29th July 08:30
I'd wager residuals on EVs are much lower than ICE due to the fact the spec increases so rapidly making them either obsolete or not very appealing.
Dazed and Confused said:
Will believe when I see it. Do you not think it's a bit odd that there were that many pre-orders when this was launched with no increase in numbers in the year since.
What do you not believe? As said, the reservation figures have always been estimates made from comments put out by Musk etc. The current estimate is that they have approx. 500,000 reservations today.You'll just have to wait to see the official sales figures if you want some sort of proof that there are a lot of people wanting to buy this car.
It makes no difference to me if the figure is 500k or 5k. I reserved before it was even launched and most of the people who reserved in the first couple of weeks since launch had been waiting a long time to do so. It wasn't some sort of viral marketing campaign which generated an instant demand for this product. This is the culmination of several year's planning and positioning and it worked better than even Musk imagined.
As for what we've seen this morning, yes it was light on content and Musk was as awkward as ever, but if you've been following Tesla or SpaceX, this is what you'd come to expect.
Here's one of the first reviews, from Motor Trend: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2018/...
As for how it actually drives, in their words the "Alfa Romeo Giulia... feels like a wet sponge by comparison".
Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Saturday 29th July 11:29
Top Gear journo's had a quick drive
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/model-3/first-...
Not much to go on really.
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/model-3/first-...
Not much to go on really.
DonkeyApple said:
If I'm honest, I can't see $25,000 worth of genuine value difference between the base model and the fully loaded. A second car's worth of value being added? Really? Is that genuinely there?
Are there many car manufacturers who don't do that? I'm pretty sure that in most cases every increment in spec or options from the base model up increases the profit margin. otolith said:
DonkeyApple said:
If I'm honest, I can't see $25,000 worth of genuine value difference between the base model and the fully loaded. A second car's worth of value being added? Really? Is that genuinely there?
Are there many car manufacturers who don't do that? I'm pretty sure that in most cases every increment in spec or options from the base model up increases the profit margin. What’s blanching, though, is the car’s ride and handling. If anybody was expecting a typical boring electric sedan here, nope. The ride is Alfa Giulia (maybe even Quadrifoglio)–firm, and quickly, I’m carving Stunt Road like a Sochi Olympics giant slalomer, micrometering my swipes at the apexes. I glance at Franz—this OK? “Go for it,” he nods. The Model 3 is so unexpected scalpel-like, I’m sputtering for adjectives. The steering ratio is quick, the effort is light (for me), but there’s enough light tremble against your fingers to hear the cornering negotiations between Stunt Road and these 235/40R19 tires (Continental ProContact RX m+s’s). And to mention body roll is to have already said too much about it. Sure, that battery is low, way down under the floor. But unlike the aluminum Model S, the Tesla Model 3 is composed of steel, too, and this car’s glass ceiling can’t be helping the center of gravity’s height. Nearly-nil body roll? Magic, I’m telling you. Magic. And this is the single-motor, rear-wheel-drive starting point. The already boggled mind boggles further at the mention of Dual Motor and Ludicrous.
Motortrend giving a bit more detail: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2018/...
Sounds like a winner.
Interesting to note you get 30 miles range per hour of charging at 230V 32A. So for us with a standard socket that is 10 miles per hour for 230V 13A. Get home from work, plug it in and those 12 hours or so gets you enough miles to cover most distances.
Or get a 7kW "moderate" charger and you get a full tank in one overnight charge which should last easily a week for most people. Sounds like a deal to me.
Sucks for standard US customers though with their 110V sockets!
Plenty of manufacturers through some stuff in for nothing.Most other cars don't have a $10,000 (cost!) battery pack in them...
Motortrend giving a bit more detail: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2018/...
Sounds like a winner.
Interesting to note you get 30 miles range per hour of charging at 230V 32A. So for us with a standard socket that is 10 miles per hour for 230V 13A. Get home from work, plug it in and those 12 hours or so gets you enough miles to cover most distances.
Or get a 7kW "moderate" charger and you get a full tank in one overnight charge which should last easily a week for most people. Sounds like a deal to me.
Sucks for standard US customers though with their 110V sockets!
Dazed and Confused said:
otolith said:
DonkeyApple said:
If I'm honest, I can't see $25,000 worth of genuine value difference between the base model and the fully loaded. A second car's worth of value being added? Really? Is that genuinely there?
Are there many car manufacturers who don't do that? I'm pretty sure that in most cases every increment in spec or options from the base model up increases the profit margin. Jader1973 said:
rscott said:
One of our clients has a P90D - it replaced their F430, which in turn had replaced a Boxster (which had deposited it's engine all over the M25 )
They find it quicker for real world usage - driving a mix of rural Suffolk roads and the A12/ M25 .
Yes the Tesla dropped out of high power mode during a 'ring attempt, but how often in the real world do you actually drive like that? According to one of the engineers involved in the Mclaren F1 road car, it's unheard of for those to be driven at full throttle more than 5% of the time (mentioned during one of the press conferences at the British GP)
But the motoring world (press / manufacturers / enthusiasts) use the 'ring as a benchmark, not just in laptimes but for ride and handling. Even Opel are saying the new Insignia GSi is faster round it than the old VXR for example.They find it quicker for real world usage - driving a mix of rural Suffolk roads and the A12/ M25 .
Yes the Tesla dropped out of high power mode during a 'ring attempt, but how often in the real world do you actually drive like that? According to one of the engineers involved in the Mclaren F1 road car, it's unheard of for those to be driven at full throttle more than 5% of the time (mentioned during one of the press conferences at the British GP)
It isn't possible to describe a Tesla as a performance car because it is incapable of lapping the petrol head's benchmark in a meaningful time. Which means it is also incapable of having the ride and handling tuned for performance.
It is essentially a Hyundai Genesis with a lower 0 to 60 time, a shorter range, and poorer build quality.
The same motoring press use 0-60 and 1/4 mile to judge how fast a car is, a Tesla S obliterates anything this side of a Hypercar,
Top speed is irrelevant for a daily driver especially in the UK so what other performance criteria should we be using?
FurtiveFreddy said:
Dazed and Confused said:
Will believe when I see it. Do you not think it's a bit odd that there were that many pre-orders when this was launched with no increase in numbers in the year since.
What do you not believe? As said, the reservation figures have always been estimates made from comments put out by Musk etc. The current estimate is that they have approx. 500,000 reservations today.You'll just have to wait to see the official sales figures if you want some sort of proof that there are a lot of people wanting to buy this car.
It makes no difference to me if the figure is 500k or 5k. I reserved before it was even launched and most of the people who reserved in the first couple of weeks since launch had been waiting a long time to do so. It wasn't some sort of viral marketing campaign which generated an instant demand for this product. This is the culmination of several year's planning and positioning and it worked better than even Musk imagined.
As for what we've seen this morning, yes it was light on content and Musk was as awkward as ever, but if you've been following Tesla or SpaceX, this is what you'd come to expect.
Here's one of the first reviews, from Motor Trend: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2018/...
As for how it actually drives, in their words the "Alfa Romeo Giulia... feels like a wet sponge by comparison".
Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Saturday 29th July 11:29
Previous winners include...
2014 Cadillac CTS
2011 Chevy Volt
2010 Ford Fusion
2008 Cadillac CTS
2005 Chrysler 300
2002 Ford Thunderbird
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
1996 Dodge Caravan
I could go on. In fact, only 9 CotY winners in the last 66 years have been non-yank metal.
Blaster72 said:
Top Gear journo's had a quick drive
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/model-3/first-...
Not much to go on really.
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/model-3/first-...
Not much to go on really.
I've posted a video of a test "drive" above. The guy filming is a famous Tesla advocate - you should check out his channel. He seems to run some kind of courier business using his Model S, then X - and in Norway!
Dazed and Confused said:
Wow, a good review from MotorTrend. A quick google of their previous Cars of the Year shows a massive bias towards American made stuff.
Previous winners include...
2014 Cadillac CTS
2011 Chevy Volt
2010 Ford Fusion
2008 Cadillac CTS
2005 Chrysler 300
2002 Ford Thunderbird
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
1996 Dodge Caravan
I could go on. In fact, only 9 CotY winners in the last 66 years have been non-yank metal.
Go watch any of their Head to Heads and you'll see they take their reviews very seriously (whilst having fun).Previous winners include...
2014 Cadillac CTS
2011 Chevy Volt
2010 Ford Fusion
2008 Cadillac CTS
2005 Chrysler 300
2002 Ford Thunderbird
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
1996 Dodge Caravan
I could go on. In fact, only 9 CotY winners in the last 66 years have been non-yank metal.
https://youtu.be/WGAU7aFMFwQ
As an example.
Dazed and Confused said:
dxg said:
Because Proper Minger.
tty mix of panamera and 3/5 GT. Do not wantotolith said:
DonkeyApple said:
If I'm honest, I can't see $25,000 worth of genuine value difference between the base model and the fully loaded. A second car's worth of value being added? Really? Is that genuinely there?
Are there many car manufacturers who don't do that? I'm pretty sure that in most cases every increment in spec or options from the base model up increases the profit margin. 
The interest for me is that EVs must be an awful lot cheaper (or the potential once economies of scale come to bear etc) to manufactur. Fewer components and components that are bought in at that and almost no design restrictions to their packaging so simpler construction.
In due course the EV will herald an entirely new design era also as a result also as it has no need to follow the historic, bonnet, boot and seats in the middle around the mechanics. Tesla have been smart to copy traditional design at this point but over time the EV will begin to look very different unless of course safety legislation overly dictates matters such as bonnet length, height etc?
Dazed and Confused said:
Supposed to be a car for the masses, in the States the cheapest one is 15000 Dollars more than the cheapest Camaro.
Have you driven the cheapest Camero? I have and it's not an experience I intend to repeat. I loved its looks but it's slow, very cheaply made, with some very poor design features. They are two very different cars.
One is aimed at blue collar white people with little money and a penchant for living in the past and the other is aimed at white collar white people with large disposable incomes and a penchant to be seen to be at the cutting edge of technology.
Two very different types of consumer that each product would appear to understand and cater for extremely well.
Two very different types of consumer that each product would appear to understand and cater for extremely well.
DonkeyApple said:
Absolutely but it doesn't mean we should rush to think it's fair value. Besides, isn't Tesla meant to not be like every other manufacturer?
The interest for me is that EVs must be an awful lot cheaper (or the potential once economies of scale come to bear etc) to manufactur. Fewer components and components that are bought in at that and almost no design restrictions to their packaging so simpler construction.
In due course the EV will herald an entirely new design era also as a result also as it has no need to follow the historic, bonnet, boot and seats in the middle around the mechanics. Tesla have been smart to copy traditional design at this point but over time the EV will begin to look very different unless of course safety legislation overly dictates matters such as bonnet length, height etc?
Yes, Tesla have been quite conservative. They've built cars which look mostly conventional and out-perform rivals. I think EVs will have to become mainstream before they start to really redefine the design language around the packaging potential. Full autonomy will bring an even larger change. The interest for me is that EVs must be an awful lot cheaper (or the potential once economies of scale come to bear etc) to manufactur. Fewer components and components that are bought in at that and almost no design restrictions to their packaging so simpler construction.
In due course the EV will herald an entirely new design era also as a result also as it has no need to follow the historic, bonnet, boot and seats in the middle around the mechanics. Tesla have been smart to copy traditional design at this point but over time the EV will begin to look very different unless of course safety legislation overly dictates matters such as bonnet length, height etc?
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