Tesla Model X - a hit in the UK?
Discussion
rockin said:
98elise said:
rockin said:
If people are stupid enough to buy these things they will get what they deserve.
Care to expand? I have one on order and I'm an engineer with a few decades experience so I'm far from stupid. l'm wondering what your thoughts process was.The supposed value of Tesla as a company compared with established players is a red herring. The retail power of the big boys is all-pervading and their stock market valuations are simply held back by historic employment/pension liabilities, much like the airlines.
Splashing big money on a Tesla may be a "statement" but few people are that desperate.
It might well be bleeding edge, but what traditional ICE vehicles would you suggest considering as an alternative if you want to carry a family of 4 plus a friend or two with 0-60 in under 3 seconds?
Not just for half the price of the Tesla. Feel free to list anything which competes with it.
A lot of people get overly excited by the performance statistics.
The question is when would you actually do 0-60 in 3 seconds in daily driving, especially with 5 people in the car?
The reality is that you're paying twice what you need to pay just to get performance you can't use. The only other justification is that you can use largely untaxed fuel - once we see tax equivalency, the purchasing decision becomes a little difference.
The question is when would you actually do 0-60 in 3 seconds in daily driving, especially with 5 people in the car?
The reality is that you're paying twice what you need to pay just to get performance you can't use. The only other justification is that you can use largely untaxed fuel - once we see tax equivalency, the purchasing decision becomes a little difference.
Trabi601 said:
The reality is that you're paying twice what you need to pay just to get performance you can't use. The only other justification is that you can use largely untaxed fuel - once we see tax equivalency, the purchasing decision becomes a little difference.
Our 'base' Model X costs the same as a diesel Q7, still does 0-60 in 6 seconds, and is by far the best car I have ever driven by a huge margin. It makes our other car, a 2 years old top spec Lexus with a list price of £42k feel like a museum piece. If you want cheap motoring buy a Dacia Duster.
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 27th April 18:57
Trabi601 said:
A lot of people get overly excited by the performance statistics.
The question is when would you actually do 0-60 in 3 seconds in daily driving, especially with 5 people in the car?
The reality is that you're paying twice what you need to pay just to get performance you can't use. The only other justification is that you can use largely untaxed fuel - once we see tax equivalency, the purchasing decision becomes a little difference.
Instant continuous torque is useful in everyday driving. 2.4 to 60 is just a party piece which I won't be paying for. I also haven't factored in the fuel saving. I would still be buying one if they cost the same to run.The question is when would you actually do 0-60 in 3 seconds in daily driving, especially with 5 people in the car?
The reality is that you're paying twice what you need to pay just to get performance you can't use. The only other justification is that you can use largely untaxed fuel - once we see tax equivalency, the purchasing decision becomes a little difference.
Try driving one, it's a revelation.
Trabi601 said:
A lot of people get overly excited by the performance statistics.
The question is when would you actually do 0-60 in 3 seconds in daily driving, especially with 5 people in the car?
The reality is that you're paying twice what you need to pay just to get performance you can't use. The only other justification is that you can use largely untaxed fuel - once we see tax equivalency, the purchasing decision becomes a little difference.
You'd be surprised. I had a 90D which was around 4s to 60 but the way it delivers it is so smooth you do use it a lot (maybe not often 0-60 in one go, but certainly say 10-50 pulling out of a side road). Until you experience how fuss free it is, you wouldn't believe it. The question is when would you actually do 0-60 in 3 seconds in daily driving, especially with 5 people in the car?
The reality is that you're paying twice what you need to pay just to get performance you can't use. The only other justification is that you can use largely untaxed fuel - once we see tax equivalency, the purchasing decision becomes a little difference.
gangzoom said:
Our 'base' Model X costs the same as a diesel Q7, still does 0-60 in 6 seconds, and is by far the best car I have ever driven by a huge margin. It makes our other car, a 2 years old top spec Lexus with a list price of £42k feel like a museum piece.
If you want cheap motoring buy a Dacia Duster.
I agree. Once you've actually experienced a Model S or a Model X, ICE cars feel very old fashioned. I'd buy a Model S tomorrow if i could rationalise the £80k + for a decent used one.If you want cheap motoring buy a Dacia Duster.
Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 27th April 18:57
The mainstream manufacturers don't want us to go electric hence all the piss poor offerings from the main manufacturers. The only exemption being Jaguar and they have had to react to Tesla as the US is by far Jaguars largest market
Candellara said:
I agree. Once you've actually experienced a Model S or a Model X, ICE cars feel very old fashioned. I'd buy a Model S tomorrow if i could rationalise the £80k + for a decent used one.
The mainstream manufacturers don't want us to go electric hence all the piss poor offerings from the main manufacturers. The only exemption being Jaguar and they have had to react to Tesla as the US is by far Jaguars largest market
I think it's not so much 'don't want', more that making a decent EV costs a hell of a lot of money compared with an equivalent ICE.The mainstream manufacturers don't want us to go electric hence all the piss poor offerings from the main manufacturers. The only exemption being Jaguar and they have had to react to Tesla as the US is by far Jaguars largest market
Trabi601 said:
A lot of people get overly excited by the performance statistics.
The question is when would you actually do 0-60 in 3 seconds in daily driving, especially with 5 people in the car?
The reality is that you're paying twice what you need to pay just to get performance you can't use. The only other justification is that you can use largely untaxed fuel - once we see tax equivalency, the purchasing decision becomes a little difference.
When do you use it in daily driving with 5 people in the car? To make the passengers giggle like loons! The question is when would you actually do 0-60 in 3 seconds in daily driving, especially with 5 people in the car?
The reality is that you're paying twice what you need to pay just to get performance you can't use. The only other justification is that you can use largely untaxed fuel - once we see tax equivalency, the purchasing decision becomes a little difference.
Of course, that's not a regular occurrence though. The true value isn't the 0-60 time though. It's the 20ish - 80ish time, which means that rather than being stuck for what feels like days behind a caravan or truck waiting for space to overtake it on a winding A or B road, you can nail a couple of them without thinking about it much, much sooner. Anyone who has ever driven to Cornwall in August will surely value that more than words can say!
Im not talking without experiance - Ive driven a tesla P90D and enjoyed it, an amazing piece of kit, but the horror stories abound about tesla put me off. I also believe that we are in a void at present with tesla and that they are very overpriced cars.
Technology is advancing battery technology is about to turn the corner, its not batteries but capacitors that hold the key. Can you imagine the turning point when we see electric vehicles with capacitor style storage and rapid charge facilities, 300 to 400 mile range in minutes, starting to approach normal car range, if you could get 100 miles out of a 1 minute charge ?
Capacitors can take a charge much much quicker than a battery. Once we are out the sticks with this then we will leave hydrocarbons behind as a fuel source in cars.
Tesla cars inside ? bit left of center - very apple orientated in style and execution. and designed to appeal to the apple brigade. Look at a car that will work with minimal maintenance, no oil changes, no brakes or discs as the car used regen, all sorts of new technology. Its moving away from mechanical complexity. Imagine a car with at least a 500k drivetrain, with a car that wont breakdown. its a huge step and when the main car makers produce a car that is of similar character to the mainstream cars at present then they will sell. 5 seats and a range of 400 miles with a few minutes recharge time. No buck rogers style future vehicles but solid mainstream cars like you see around you. This is what the public wants, not future proof but future ready.
Technology is advancing battery technology is about to turn the corner, its not batteries but capacitors that hold the key. Can you imagine the turning point when we see electric vehicles with capacitor style storage and rapid charge facilities, 300 to 400 mile range in minutes, starting to approach normal car range, if you could get 100 miles out of a 1 minute charge ?
Capacitors can take a charge much much quicker than a battery. Once we are out the sticks with this then we will leave hydrocarbons behind as a fuel source in cars.
Tesla cars inside ? bit left of center - very apple orientated in style and execution. and designed to appeal to the apple brigade. Look at a car that will work with minimal maintenance, no oil changes, no brakes or discs as the car used regen, all sorts of new technology. Its moving away from mechanical complexity. Imagine a car with at least a 500k drivetrain, with a car that wont breakdown. its a huge step and when the main car makers produce a car that is of similar character to the mainstream cars at present then they will sell. 5 seats and a range of 400 miles with a few minutes recharge time. No buck rogers style future vehicles but solid mainstream cars like you see around you. This is what the public wants, not future proof but future ready.
Wouldn't another option be swappable battery packs?
Turn up at the charging point, they take yours off, slot in a fully charged one and put yours on a rack to charge for the next customer.
Would effectively being able to fully charge a car in the same time you can a fuel tank be worth it, or would it take up too much space?
Turn up at the charging point, they take yours off, slot in a fully charged one and put yours on a rack to charge for the next customer.
Would effectively being able to fully charge a car in the same time you can a fuel tank be worth it, or would it take up too much space?
Kermit power said:
Wouldn't another option be swappable battery packs?
Turn up at the charging point, they take yours off, slot in a fully charged one and put yours on a rack to charge for the next customer.
Would effectively being able to fully charge a car in the same time you can a fuel tank be worth it, or would it take up too much space?
Tesla tried this and no one used it.Turn up at the charging point, they take yours off, slot in a fully charged one and put yours on a rack to charge for the next customer.
Would effectively being able to fully charge a car in the same time you can a fuel tank be worth it, or would it take up too much space?
http://fortune.com/2015/06/10/teslas-battery-swap-...
trouble is that a battery pack is worth more than the average engine - no body will risk ending up with a pup. so people like to keep their own battery. its new technology and people are terrified of getting stuck with a bad un.
Also tesla have different ranges of battery, whats to stop you getting a basic car then popping in one of the bigger batteries ? too many questions and not enough answers.
Also tesla have different ranges of battery, whats to stop you getting a basic car then popping in one of the bigger batteries ? too many questions and not enough answers.
ruggedscotty said:
trouble is that a battery pack is worth more than the average engine - no body will risk ending up with a pup. so people like to keep their own battery. its new technology and people are terrified of getting stuck with a bad un.
Also tesla have different ranges of battery, whats to stop you getting a basic car then popping in one of the bigger batteries ? too many questions and not enough answers.
I wasn't thinking of now, nor particularly of Tesla. More of a future infrastructure where all the batteries would be owned by a Shell or BP equivalent, and you'd just fill up with a new generic fit battery pack on the same way that today we fill up with fuel.Also tesla have different ranges of battery, whats to stop you getting a basic car then popping in one of the bigger batteries ? too many questions and not enough answers.
It would require standardisation of shape and of rating to work and would need to be taken up by the car makers to give economy of scale, Pop in and swap in an 85kwh pack. quick and simple process. Trouble is that if the batteries were made easy to remove then you would have what happened with car radios in the 90's they would be stolen en mass.....
it needs to be a quick recharge some break through in battery technology or an alternative to battery. this has to happen before we get public buy in. the future is electric, not hydrogen or some other gas or liquid medium. its all in electricity.
it needs to be a quick recharge some break through in battery technology or an alternative to battery. this has to happen before we get public buy in. the future is electric, not hydrogen or some other gas or liquid medium. its all in electricity.
Trabi601 said:
I think it's not so much 'don't want', more that making a decent EV costs a hell of a lot of money compared with an equivalent ICE.
Our Model X did cost a LOT of money.....But than I decided to have a quick look at the Audi website and was shocked to find an equivalent Q7 with similar specs cost virtually the same as our Model X!!!Why on earth anyone would spend £70k on a diesel Q7 when for the same dosh you could have had a 60D X is beyond me...... Just such a shame Tesla got rid of the 60D in search of higher profit margins
MarshPhantom said:
Are Teslas a hit anywhere?
Last time I looked they had sold 125000 cars worldwide.
I don't think you've quite grasped the notion of an early adopter market, have you?Last time I looked they had sold 125000 cars worldwide.
If you want a comparison, go and take a look at the early days of the ICE when all the Luddites were still convinced the horse was and would remain the answer.
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