Tesla Model X - a hit in the UK?

[MarshPhantom]

Kermit power said:

MarshPhantom said:

Are Teslas a hit anywhere?

Last time I looked they had sold 125000 cars worldwide.

I don't think you've quite grasped the notion of an early adopter market, have you?

Yes, they've been selling cars for nine years.

[gangzoom]

Tesla have been able to roughly double their production/sales every year since 2012 when the S first came on sale.

Last year they delivered 80k cars, based on a product range of only 2 cars and starting price of $70k with none of this 'manufacturer backed' discounts business most brands need to shift stock.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/01/03/teslas-2016-d...

Sadly for all the skeptics Tesla is going be here for a while, Model 3 preorders are at 600K last time Tesla announced any info.

[Trabi601]

gangzoom said:

Sadly for all the skeptics Tesla is going be here for a while, Model 3 preorders are at 600K last time Tesla announced any info.

They're more an 'expression of interest', rather than a holding and firm deposit, aren't they?

When it comes in more expensive and with a lower range than expected, especially if you don't pay the premium for one with a proper battery pack, people will start to drop out.

[kent_phil]

gangzoom said:

Our Model X did cost a LOT of money.....But than I decided to have a quick look at the Audi website and was shocked to find an equivalent Q7 with similar specs cost virtually the same as our Model X!!!

Why on earth anyone would spend £70k on a diesel Q7 when for the same dosh you could have had a 60D X is beyond me...... Just such a shame Tesla got rid of the 60D in search of higher profit margins

This - exactly the decision path I went through.

My 90D Model X was within a few % of the purchase cost of a new SQ7 I was about to pull the trigger on.

So glad we went the Tesla route, now the delivery issues have been resolved (very efficiently and great service) the car just keeps impressing. The performance is useable everyday, overtaking is so much easier. We hadn't moved our S3 or RS6 since taking delivery of the Tesla to the point where I traded the RS6 last week - all seemed a bit yesterday!

Had a chat with a lease company chap at the Newport Pagnell superchargers this morning who had one on loan from Tesla - they hadn't been able to make the sums add up on them to date but the demand from customers and a shift in position from Tesla had changed (something around VAT treatment and transparency). He expected the leasing industry to order 100's in the near future based on an industry meeting he had recently been at.

Everyone loves it and wants to know more about it - I certainly don't feel like I'm out on a contrarian limb here.

[ruggedscotty]

yadda yadda - how many cars tesla have sold ? Its immaterial just now, There is no direct competitor to Tesla, How many electric vehicles do you see on the road, not hybrids buy proper electric vehicles. Leaf and I3, both of which are at different price points and range capacity to what tesla are producing. Tesla is on the wave, the early adopters and the ones that have seen the light. electric is the way forward, required no dedicated fuel infrastructure, electricity can be supplied en mass through the existing infrastructure - yes it may need some upgrading. but its there, hydrogen imagine the requirements to get that off of the ground, tesla's supercharger network is more advanced than the hydrogen system.

Now were looking at a huge change, its coming and it will be ruthless. the hydrocarbon is finished and will pass into the annuals of history like the horse and cart or steam. electric power is clean at point of use safer than hydrogen or petrol and a damn site cheaper. Can we even see what cars will be like in 50 years ? What were cars like in 1967 ? so looking forward to 2067 ? will we be forced to fill cars with hydrocarbons or will we be utilising electricity as the prime motive force ? not a trick question. I think its obvious.

I also think car companies know this and have turned the corner, there are many models about to hit the showrooms over the next few years that are purely driven by electric means. models that will range from fiesta to s class, and that will bring a massive change in the levels of pollution. The car industry is fickle it doesn't want change. it hates the future, in fact it is scared. but its taken people to take up on tesla for it to become obvious that unless they move forward with technology then they will be left in the past. real performance is coming. we will have everyday cars that are capable of sub 10 seconds to 100mph performance, cars that were but dreams for the many suddenly available for not a lot of money. Running costs negligible compared to a V12 bi turbo merc and their ilk.....

I am excited about the future, but I also am aware that Tesla when the mainstream come on line will not be able to compete....

[Kermit power]

MarshPhantom said:

Kermit power said:

MarshPhantom said:

Are Teslas a hit anywhere?

Last time I looked they had sold 125000 cars worldwide.

I don't think you've quite grasped the notion of an early adopter market, have you?

Yes, they've been selling cars for nine years.

OK, so if you do grasp the notion of an early adopter market, then I don't get your previous comment?

By any way you choose to measure it, electric cars are an early adopter market, and Tesla are proving very successful therein.

[98elise]

MarshPhantom said:

Are Teslas a hit anywhere?

Last time I looked they had sold 125000 cars worldwide.

The S was outselling it's class rivals in the us, and they have 400,000 orders for a car nobody has driven yet. As a comparison the MX5 recently passed 1m after 25 years.

Cars like the BMW 3 series do about 300-400k per year.

[Some Gump]

One thing I do find interesting is that the hard line Tesla supporters are seemingly willing to overlook / excuse all negatives because they like the tech that much. It's like the iPhone mentality, but in a car.

The list of issues given by some people on the first page, and the "chop your finger off door" would be universal slaughter if it was a VW. Hopefully in a resonable space of time they can sort these things out. When they've done that, they can tell their stylists to stop making EV's look odd for no reason, and make an EV that looks like a normal car. When they do that., I'll probably want one.

[Trabi601]

98elise said:

The S was outselling it's class rivals in the us, and they have 400,000 orders for a car nobody has driven yet. As a comparison the MX5 recently passed 1m after 25 years.

Cars like the BMW 3 series do about 300-400k per year.

But they don't have orders. They have a vague intention that 400k people might want one, depending on final pricing and specification.

Wouldn't surprise me if real orders end up at 25% of the 'intention' deposits.

[dobly]

Some Gump said:

When they've done that, they can tell their stylists to stop making EV's look odd for no reason, and make an EV that looks like a normal car. When they do that., I'll probably want one.

Why do you want a car to look like a "normal" car, when by going electric, the shape of the car doesn't need to be like most cars have looked for the last 50+ years?
With no need for a radiator grille in front of a large block of metal, why ape the past? Why not go with a different shape / profile?
Surely car designers are finally free of one of the biggest limitations to designing mass-market products ever - let's see them come up with ingenious new looks. Also, I can't wait for what the future will bring for 2 / 3 seat electric cars as well.

[Kermit power]

Some Gump said:

One thing I do find interesting is that the hard line Tesla supporters are seemingly willing to overlook / excuse all negatives because they like the tech that much. It's like the iPhone mentality, but in a car.

The list of issues given by some people on the first page, and the "chop your finger off door" would be universal slaughter if it was a VW. Hopefully in a resonable space of time they can sort these things out. When they've done that, they can tell their stylists to stop making EV's look odd for no reason, and make an EV that looks like a normal car. When they do that., I'll probably want one.

The "chop your finger off door" objection frankly just exposes people uttering it as having a completely biased viewpoint.

Can you name a single car being made today with doors that definitely couldn't chop a child's finger off? No. Thought not.

Just because it has electrically closing doors, does that mean you shouldn't be keeping an eye on where your little cherubs are putting their fingers when the door is closing?

Quite apart from anything else, have you actually experienced one of these doors? I would assume that the parent of any child young enough to cause a concern about accidentally getting their fingers chopped off would have already ensured their kid was strapped into their seat before the door closes. At that point, you'd have to have Mr bloody Tickle as a sprig to stand much chance of them getting their hands anywhere near the door close!

[Heres Johnny]

Other cars don't have remotely controlled doors (i.e. Unsupervised closing) and where the safety features have been reduced to make them work. If you can name a car that does, I'd be willing to hear it

http://jalopnik.com/did-tesla-quietly-remove-a-saf...

[jkh112]

Heres Johnny said:

Other cars don't have remotely controlled doors (i.e. Unsupervised closing) and where the safety features have been reduced to make them work. If you can name a car that does, I'd be willing to hear it

Peugeot 1007. Electric remotely controlled doors. They did not have to reduce the safety features to make them work, but that was because the safety features were never fitted!

[Heres Johnny]

jkh112 said:

Heres Johnny said:

Other cars don't have remotely controlled doors (i.e. Unsupervised closing) and where the safety features have been reduced to make them work. If you can name a car that does, I'd be willing to hear it

Peugeot 1007. Electric remotely controlled doors. They did not have to reduce the safety features to make them work, but that was because the safety features were never fitted!

Reading the reviews, it's not exactly encouraging

https://www.whatcar.com/peugeot/1007/hatchback/own...

[Kermit power]

Heres Johnny said:

Other cars don't have remotely controlled doors (i.e. Unsupervised closing) and where the safety features have been reduced to make them work. If you can name a car that does, I'd be willing to hear it

http://jalopnik.com/did-tesla-quietly-remove-a-saf...

Seriously? Are you one of those people who won't buy a takeaway coffee unless it says "warning, contents may be hot" on the lid?

Just because it's an electric vehicle, that doesn't mean you can abandon all personal responsibility for your safety and that of your passengers, does it?

[MDL111]

gangzoom said:

Trabi601 said:

Thing is, £100k.

I actually agree, £100k is crazy money to spend, but when I ordered our 60D it was £64k list and £5k of options, so essentially the same as a quick Q7.

Only Tesla know why they have jacked up prices fo much, our car ordered today would be £94k!!!! That's a £25k price rise in 6 months for exactly the same car and I hear rumours another price increase is coming. Remember also Tesla don't do any discounts, we didn't even get a 'free' key ring at handover, so the price you see on the website is the price everyone pays.

But apparently the sales figures are only heading in one direction so I can only assume there are plenty of people still willing to drop £100k+ on these things!!

Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 16th April 06:13

Just a guess - FX movement to USD accounting for a large part of the increase?

[98elise]

Trabi601 said:

98elise said:

The S was outselling it's class rivals in the us, and they have 400,000 orders for a car nobody has driven yet. As a comparison the MX5 recently passed 1m after 25 years.

Cars like the BMW 3 series do about 300-400k per year.

But they don't have orders. They have a vague intention that 400k people might want one, depending on final pricing and specification.

Wouldn't surprise me if real orders end up at 25% of the 'intention' deposits.

A £1000 deposit is a bit more than a vague intention. I suspect about 25% will drop out as 2 years is a long time between order and delivery. Your needs and circumstances could be entirely different.

As soon as they become available as company cars sales will take off again. Our company has just stated they will have a 20% electric fleet by 2020.

[Trabi601]

98elise said:

A £1000 deposit is a bit more than a vague intention. I suspect about 25% will drop out as 2 years is a long time between order and delivery. Your needs and circumstances could be entirely different.

As soon as they become available as company cars sales will take off again. Our company has just stated they will have a 20% electric fleet by 2020.

Your last point - for most people who actually need a company car, rather than have one as a perk - a Tesla just will not work. You don't want range anxiety when you're travelling on business - and you don't want to have to plan hotels, parking etc., just to be able to fill up. As for perk users, much will depend on how much the UK price point is - if it's £50k for a 3-series competitor, despite the tax advantage, it's not going to get a massive uptake.

I'm obviously very cynical about the whole thing - I've run bikes and cars with small tanks and ranges in the past and find them a complete pain in the arse for anything other than short local journeys. Once you're in the realms of having to plan to stop and find somewhere to charge every 200 miles or so, the car becomes an inconvenience. I love the comfort of filling a tank with diesel and knowing I can get well over 600 miles from it.

[Candellara]

ruggedscotty said:

yadda yadda - how many cars tesla have sold ? Its immaterial just now, There is no direct competitor to Tesla, How many electric vehicles do you see on the road, not hybrids buy proper electric vehicles. Leaf and I3, both of which are at different price points and range capacity to what tesla are producing. Tesla is on the wave, the early adopters and the ones that have seen the light. electric is the way forward, required no dedicated fuel infrastructure, electricity can be supplied en mass through the existing infrastructure - yes it may need some upgrading. but its there, hydrogen imagine the requirements to get that off of the ground, tesla's supercharger network is more advanced than the hydrogen system.

Now were looking at a huge change, its coming and it will be ruthless. the hydrocarbon is finished and will pass into the annuals of history like the horse and cart or steam. electric power is clean at point of use safer than hydrogen or petrol and a damn site cheaper. Can we even see what cars will be like in 50 years ? What were cars like in 1967 ? so looking forward to 2067 ? will we be forced to fill cars with hydrocarbons or will we be utilising electricity as the prime motive force ? not a trick question. I think its obvious.

I also think car companies know this and have turned the corner, there are many models about to hit the showrooms over the next few years that are purely driven by electric means. models that will range from fiesta to s class, and that will bring a massive change in the levels of pollution. The car industry is fickle it doesn't want change. it hates the future, in fact it is scared. but its taken people to take up on tesla for it to become obvious that unless they move forward with technology then they will be left in the past. real performance is coming. we will have everyday cars that are capable of sub 10 seconds to 100mph performance, cars that were but dreams for the many suddenly available for not a lot of money. Running costs negligible compared to a V12 bi turbo merc and their ilk.....

I am excited about the future, but I also am aware that Tesla when the mainstream come on line will not be able to compete....

I've been deliberating on whether to replace the wife's Golf with a Tesla Model 3 or give her my E-Class estate and get an i-Pace. Going to go with the latter and deposit on a Jaguar i-pace next week

[Heres Johnny]

Kermit power said:

Heres Johnny said:

Other cars don't have remotely controlled doors (i.e. Unsupervised closing) and where the safety features have been reduced to make them work. If you can name a car that does, I'd be willing to hear it

http://jalopnik.com/did-tesla-quietly-remove-a-saf...

Seriously? Are you one of those people who won't buy a takeaway coffee unless it says "warning, contents may be hot" on the lid?

Just because it's an electric vehicle, that doesn't mean you can abandon all personal responsibility for your safety and that of your passengers, does it?

Far from it, I just find it ironic that musk goes on about them being the safest cars you can buy, they design in safety features, and then when they cause issues, they just turn them off. So they know there's a risk, they tried to deal with it, but gave up.

Unlike most people who comment on tesla cars, I had one for over a year and 30k miles. I have seen how the brand behaves.