New Lithium batteries with 3 times the storage

[TooMany2cvs]

Heres Johnny said:

The generation isn't the issue.

Yes, it is.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/31/n...
(and every other winter for the last decade or so)

Heres Johnny said:

A EV can, depending on which figure you use, travel about 75% of the distance on the electricity required to refine petrol or diesel - ie if a gallon of petrol takes you 40 miles, the refinement energy requirement alone would propel a EV 30 miles.

Got any kind of source for that?

Heres Johnny said:

There is an issue with local distribution however

You ain't wrong. We have an 11kV-230v single phase transformer at the back of the garage. It supplies eight houses and a farm. It was replaced three years ago - with the same capacity as before (installed in the early 60s, when AC came in here). 200A fused, 300A rated. I was surprised (and a bit disappointed...) they didn't at least put a three-phase in, given that there are all three conductors in the 11kV - apparently, the entire grid around here is very borderline, so they don't want to risk increasing anything unless they absolutely have to.

[Heres Johnny]

TooMany2cvs said:

Heres Johnny said:

The generation isn't the issue.

Yes, it is.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/31/n...
(and every other winter for the last decade or so)

Heres Johnny said:

A EV can, depending on which figure you use, travel about 75% of the distance on the electricity required to refine petrol or diesel - ie if a gallon of petrol takes you 40 miles, the refinement energy requirement alone would propel a EV 30 miles.

Got any kind of source for that?

Heres Johnny said:

There is an issue with local distribution however

You ain't wrong. We have an 11kV-230v single phase transformer at the back of the garage. It supplies eight houses and a farm. It was replaced three years ago - with the same capacity as before (installed in the early 60s, when AC came in here). 200A fused, 300A rated. I was surprised (and a bit disappointed...) they didn't at least put a three-phase in, given that there are all three conductors in the 11kV - apparently, the entire grid around here is very borderline, so they don't want to risk increasing anything unless they absolutely have to.

You're talking peak - as I clearly stated, most cars charge in the evening and over night when the natural daily cycle means wider consumption is lower.

I've linked a beginners guide as you clearly need it
http://euanmearns.com/electricity-supply-and-deman...

As for the energy required to refine, here's one article that came up first in google but that pitches even higher than the figure I used.
https://greentransportation.info/energy-transporta...

Here's another one thats even higher at 10kwh for 1 litre, on that basis 45kwh for a gallon - an EV can do 150 miles on that
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=energy+used+to+r...

And another more sensible quote even if its from Musk, but it wasn't challenged in business week
http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-and-chris...

Or this one
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/14/how-gas-cars-us...

We agree on the distribution.

[The Moose]

TooMany2cvs said:

The Moose said:

I wonder at what point the copper into the building becomes the limiting factor for battery charging speed.

It's pretty bloody close already. A Tesla supercharger is apparently capable of 145kW between a pair of outlets - they apparently run at 480v, so that's 300A - or 120kW per car - 250A. These are likely to be US figures.

The single phase transformer (installed three years ago!) that serves our house and eight others is fused at 200A, rated at 300A.

I wonder if that was the real reason behind the PowerWall - Tesla can see the battery tech evolving to a point it can be charged faster than it realistic in most residential and a lot of commercial installations. Supply a power wall as well and then plug the Tesla into that?!

[LuS1fer]

Heres Johnny said:

most cars charge in the evening and over night when the natural daily cycle means wider consumption is lower.

Yes but it won't be lower, if and when everyone is charging their cars, that will then become "peak" and prices will rise.

[TooMany2cvs]

LuS1fer said:

Heres Johnny said:

most cars charge in the evening and over night when the natural daily cycle means wider consumption is lower.

Yes but it won't be lower, if and when everyone is charging their cars, that will then become "peak" and prices will rise.

This is clearly too hard a concept for some...

[Heres Johnny]

TooMany2cvs said:

LuS1fer said:

Heres Johnny said:

most cars charge in the evening and over night when the natural daily cycle means wider consumption is lower.

Yes but it won't be lower, if and when everyone is charging their cars, that will then become "peak" and prices will rise.

This is clearly too hard a concept for some...

That's what people usually say when they realise they're mistaken but haven't realised it yet.

I've laid out the fact the move to all electric cars will take a lot longer than 10 years and a lot can change in that time, but generation does not appear to be massively under pressure because of a switch to EVs.

[RayTay]

Heres Johnny said:

As for the energy required to refine, here's one article that came up first in google but that pitches even higher than the figure I used.
https://green transportation . info/energy-transportation/gasoline-costs-6kwh.html

Yes, the energy used to produce petro fuels and its transportation is ignored. Take that out of the equation and charge EVs direct and there is not a real big problem. The video below says one UK refinery consumed the amount of electricity to run Coventry and Leicester combined. It is obvious the power production stations can cope when we all go EV.

Some jiggery pokery with the distribution may all that is needed. then take into account local solar PV generation, wind, etc. It would be better if all vehicles, trains, etc, were electric and oil used to generate it, rather than filthy coal. But coal stations are being phased out and few are left, in favour of eco wood pellets. The Port of Liverpool has built a big terminal for the wood pellets which will come from North America.

I like the way the video slags Clarkson.

Edited by RayTay on Sunday 2nd July 21:11

[RayTay]

LuS1fer said:

Yes but it won't be lower, if and when everyone is charging their cars, that will then become "peak" and prices will rise.

But you have not taken away the substantial electricity that is used to produce petro fuels.

[TooMany2cvs]

RayTay said:

LuS1fer said:

Yes but it won't be lower, if and when everyone is charging their cars, that will then become "peak" and prices will rise.

But you have not taken away the substantial electricity that is used to produce petro fuels.

Yes, you already said that refining petrol uses 3/4 of the electricity that an electric car uses. And I asked you for some evidence of those figures. Still waiting...

[Heres Johnny]

TooMany2cvs said:

RayTay said:

LuS1fer said:

Yes but it won't be lower, if and when everyone is charging their cars, that will then become "peak" and prices will rise.

But you have not taken away the substantial electricity that is used to produce petro fuels.

Yes, you already said that refining petrol uses 3/4 of the electricity that an electric car uses. And I asked you for some evidence of those figures. Still waiting...

You asked me that, not Ray Tay..

And I gave you 4 links...

And each link had more links...

Can you prove that you exist as I don't believe it.

[RayTay]

Pollution to make electricity.
Electricity produces petrol cleanly.
Petrol burning pollutes - and ruins lung.
We get pollution twice.

Common sense says remove the polluting petrol burning aspect, which is an unnecessary layer, and go full EV. Range anxiety is now not an issue in EVs, with new battery and vehicle advances will ensure it will not be in the coming decade, so no reason not to cut out petro fuels.

Edited by RayTay on Sunday 2nd July 17:38

[mybrainhurts]

RayTay said:

mybrainhurts said:

How very dull. Are you big on knitting?

You have never drove a Tesla then to come out with such a statement. We have to get away from polluting, inefficient, energy sapping cars, it is as simple as that, whether you think so or not.

You bloody environMentalists come over like this all the time....

VE HAFFF VAYS OF MAKINK YOU COMPLY MIT OUR VISION OF ZER FUTURE...HEIL ELECTRICKERY...

PS...You're quite right, I have never drove driven a Tesla.

No doubt it's as much fun as a dodgem car, but it can't do that all day long.

I drive up to 80,000 miles a year, regularly with round trips of between 300 and 500 miles, followed by one or two 90 mile round trips in a day and I don't have time for 30 minute recharges.

So, until you can help me out, dodgem cars are utterly useless for me.

[eldar]

mybrainhurts said:

You bloody environMentalists come over like this all the time....

VE HAFFF VAYS OF MAKINK YOU COMPLY MIT OUR VISION OF ZER FUTURE...HEIL ELECTRICKERY...

PS...You're quite right, I have never drove driven a Tesla.

No doubt it's as much fun as a dodgem car, but it can't do that all day long.

I drive up to 80,000 miles a year, regularly with round trips of between 300 and 500 miles, followed by one or two 90 mile round trips in a day and I don't have time for 30 minute recharges.

So, until you can help me out, dodgem cars are utterly useless for me.

Well done. You've just made yourself look somewhat of an arse, missing any relevant points in an attempt to be funny/nonogenarian/stupid.

[mybrainhurts]

eldar said:

mybrainhurts said:

You bloody environMentalists come over like this all the time....

VE HAFFF VAYS OF MAKINK YOU COMPLY MIT OUR VISION OF ZER FUTURE...HEIL ELECTRICKERY...

PS...You're quite right, I have never drove driven a Tesla.

No doubt it's as much fun as a dodgem car, but it can't do that all day long.

I drive up to 80,000 miles a year, regularly with round trips of between 300 and 500 miles, followed by one or two 90 mile round trips in a day and I don't have time for 30 minute recharges.

So, until you can help me out, dodgem cars are utterly useless for me.

Well done. You've just made yourself look somewhat of an arse, missing any relevant points in an attempt to be funny/nonogenarian/stupid.

Instead of being a sanctimonious arse, perhaps you could explain how an EV car would overcome these difficulties.

[Pvapour]

Always funny reading non 'tree huggers' views, really? Tree huggers? What fekin year do some of these people using these expressions live in?

Go and drive a decent ev car ffs, youll know whithin minutes that the ice death is imminent

Have you any idea of the plans going on behind the scenes by the likes of VAG? Its unbeleivable the speed the infasructure is growing and the interest & investment going on by all the big fuel suppliers; BP, Shell etc

As for the uk power stations coping, its in hand and its fek all to do with upping their capacity, its all to do with control of consumption and homes being solar equipped.

If people think this chNge isnt coming theyre going to be in for a very big shock and not very far away, amazing how ignornt can be when its something they dont want to hear.

[eldar]

mybrainhurts said:

Instead of being a sanctimonious arse, perhaps you could explain how an EV car would overcome these difficulties.

Hardly difficult, don't buy one, in the same way you wouldn't attempt your usage pattern on a unicycle. Simple, huh?

For the majority of motorists, who do the average 8 to 9 thousand miles a year your dodgem would do admirably. Adoption is low as the economic case for EV doesn't stack up yet.

Be a happy road warrior.

[mybrainhurts]

eldar said:

mybrainhurts said:

Instead of being a sanctimonious arse, perhaps you could explain how an EV car would overcome these difficulties.

Hardly difficult, don't buy one, in the same way you wouldn't attempt your usage pattern on a unicycle. Simple, huh?

For the majority of motorists, who do the average 8 to 9 thousand miles a year your dodgem would do admirably. Adoption is low as the economic case for EV doesn't stack up yet.

Be a happy road warrior.

...ok

[RayTay]

Pvapour said:

As for the uk power stations coping, its in hand and its fek all to do with upping their capacity, its all to do with control of consumption and homes being solar equipped.

Modern batteries like the Tesla Powerwall, can store enough energy for a home's daily use. They can be charged cheaply using off-peak electricity at night. If one million homes have them 5 power stations can be de-commissioned - or not built. Far cheaper for the utilities to install one million batteries than build 5 power stations. Then put solar panels on the roofs of these one million homes then the grid's problems can be solved as they input into then grid locally. It is not rocket science.

Reduce the electricity refineries use, which will reduce as less petro fuels are consumed, and add domestic, and commercial, batteries and solar panels. Then we are then just about there.

[RayTay]

eldar said:

Adoption is low as the economic case for EV doesn't stack up yet.

A taxi company in Cornwall did 100,000 miles in 2 years with a Nissan Leaf. They saved £17,000 in fuel and maintenance costs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIdUdhJxIt0&t=...

[RayTay]

mybrainhurts said:

I drive up to 80,000 miles a year, regularly with round trips of between 300 and 500 miles,

Do you ever sleep?