Tesla Ups and Downs

[ntiz]

audi321 said:

imagine what??? Am I missing something obvious?

Also, re the OP. There's clearly something wrong with your dads car, a 90D should certainly be getting more than 200 miles range, my 75D gets 260 miles, so I really don't know what's going on there, what is his average m/kwh?

Finally.........that youtube video........James and Kate are great channel to subscribe to. Down to earth and I think he's an AA man (she could be also) so no surprise she was able to dismantle the MS so easily.

I have to ask where do you live what kind of driving do you do to get that 260 miles ours gets absolutely know where near that. As far as we can work out the only way to get that kind of range is to do 40-50 max which is just not going to happen living up here in Norfolk.

I just got back from Austria in mine and basically at any kind of decent speed I was struggling to do 120 miles between charges on the autobahn. Which is kind of frustrating because the cars have so much performance but its kind of wasted on long journeys because you can't use it much which is a shame.

[Heres Johnny]

ntiz said:

audi321 said:

imagine what??? Am I missing something obvious?

Also, re the OP. There's clearly something wrong with your dads car, a 90D should certainly be getting more than 200 miles range, my 75D gets 260 miles, so I really don't know what's going on there, what is his average m/kwh?

Finally.........that youtube video........James and Kate are great channel to subscribe to. Down to earth and I think he's an AA man (she could be also) so no surprise she was able to dismantle the MS so easily.

I have to ask where do you live what kind of driving do you do to get that 260 miles ours gets absolutely know where near that. As far as we can work out the only way to get that kind of range is to do 40-50 max which is just not going to happen living up here in Norfolk.

I just got back from Austria in mine and basically at any kind of decent speed I was struggling to do 120 miles between charges on the autobahn. Which is kind of frustrating because the cars have so much performance but its kind of wasted on long journeys because you can't use it much which is a shame.

I agree - not a chance to get 260 miles out of a 75D driving at anything but 40 mph

120 seems low though too. Autobahn may be the clue!

Best I got out of my MS 90D was 220 miles from 96% down to 6% down the M6 driving around 70mph (I needed to make it back to Keele to charge so I had to drive sensibly). Theoretically that gives full to empty range of 245 miles but thats just not real world as its not quick to squeeze the last 5% of charge into a car, even on a super charger, and arriving as it clicks to zero is asking for trouble. More typically I work on 200 miles of useable range without worrying to much, and thats plenty for 95% of the time, and a quick top up sees the the other 5%

Edited by Heres Johnny on Friday 1st September 11:18

[AstonZagato]

If one were to, say, cruise at 85mph (Autobahn obviously), how does that affect range versus cruising at 70mph?

[ntiz]

That 120 was cruise set at 90 then moving down to 85 when I started to get worried hahahah. I should point out it was raining and there was some hills which of course all effects range but every other car on the road has to deal with it.

At 70 the car does seem to do much better but when you start to wind the speed up the range seems to plummet pretty quickly. Which is of course like most cars just seems more severe than an ICE and of course in a ICE when the mpg drops you just put more dino juice in it as opposed to waiting at a charger or worse case scenario run out totally.

[modeller]

There's a range calculator here:
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/models - only goes upto 70mph.

A guess would be >80miles loss of range going from 70-85mph. Drag vs speed is non-linear.

[Heres Johnny]

AstonZagato said:

If one were to, say, cruise at 85mph (Autobahn obviously), how does that affect range versus cruising at 70mph?

A gentle 70 mph cruise uses about 0.30 - 0.33 kwh a mile. If you went to 85 I think you'd be nearer 0.35 - 0.4 kwh - so maybe 20% higher. At 50 mph though, say in our lovely average speed roadworks, you could be down at 0.25 kwh per mile while doing that. That's for MS, an MX would be roughly 10% higher

You need a to a bit mindful that the start of any journey can be heavy on consumption especially if everything is cold. I doubt that's any different to any other car. The cold, below 5 deg c can though add 10-15% to consumption to the above.

Another thing to watch is what the real capacity is of the battery. Most are there or thereabouts, knock off a bit for anti brick protection, but the 85 and 90 are quite a way down on the nameplate rating. It would be nearer the mark to call them 80 and 85 which is why the range of a 100D is improved by much more than the simple 10% or so increase the badge would suggest, and why the 75 is so close.

Edited by Heres Johnny on Friday 1st September 12:23

[audi321]

Heres Johnny said:

ntiz said:

audi321 said:

imagine what??? Am I missing something obvious?

Also, re the OP. There's clearly something wrong with your dads car, a 90D should certainly be getting more than 200 miles range, my 75D gets 260 miles, so I really don't know what's going on there, what is his average m/kwh?

Finally.........that youtube video........James and Kate are great channel to subscribe to. Down to earth and I think he's an AA man (she could be also) so no surprise she was able to dismantle the MS so easily.

I have to ask where do you live what kind of driving do you do to get that 260 miles ours gets absolutely know where near that. As far as we can work out the only way to get that kind of range is to do 40-50 max which is just not going to happen living up here in Norfolk.

I just got back from Austria in mine and basically at any kind of decent speed I was struggling to do 120 miles between charges on the autobahn. Which is kind of frustrating because the cars have so much performance but its kind of wasted on long journeys because you can't use it much which is a shame.

I agree - not a chance to get 260 miles out of a 75D driving at anything but 40 mph

120 seems low though too. Autobahn may be the clue!

Best I got out of my MS 90D was 220 miles from 96% down to 6% down the M6 driving around 70mph (I needed to make it back to Keele to charge so I had to drive sensibly). Theoretically that gives full to empty range of 245 miles but thats just not real world as its not quick to squeeze the last 5% of charge into a car, even on a super charger, and arriving as it clicks to zero is asking for trouble. More typically I work on 200 miles of useable range without worrying to much, and thats plenty for 95% of the time, and a quick top up sees the the other 5%

Edited by Heres Johnny on Friday 1st September 11:18

A Model S 90D has a usable battery size of 81.8kWh. If you are getting 220 miles from 90% of it, then that's an average of 334 Wh/ml (which is reasonable, not great though). Would be interesting to know what your lifetime Wh/ml figure actually is?

My 75D (mine is one of the new software restricted 85kWh batteries) so has a full 75kWh usable battery - My lifetime Wh/ml is 289 which equates to 259 miles range from 100% to zero.

As for getting 120 miles range from a 75D that's just ridiculous. There are people on EV forums who can get that from a 30kWh Leaf, so there's definitely something wrong if you only get that from a 75kWh Model S. - ETA just seen that was at 90 mph, so maybe that explains it I wouldn't know about that speed constant.

It's all down to the Wh/ml figure (which unlike an ICE computer mpg figure) is very precise. Things like turning range mode on and properly using the regen braking will help in reducing this figure. Unless you're doing the 0-60 sprints at every light then you should be under 300Wh/ml with relatively sensible driving.

A 75kWh (75,000 watts) divided by 300Wh/ml gives 250 miles range. Obviously thats 100% down to 0% which doesn't happen very often, but it's just an example of what I mean.

ETA - My 260 mile range above was a typo, it should have read 250.

[Heres Johnny]

audi321 said:

A Model S 90D has a usable battery size of 81.8kWh. If you are getting 220 miles from 90% of it, then that's an average of 334 Wh/ml (which is reasonable, not great though). Would be interesting to know what your lifetime Wh/ml figure actually is?

My 75D (mine is one of the new software restricted 85kWh batteries) so has a full 75kWh usable battery - My lifetime Wh/ml is 289 which equates to 259 miles range from 100% to zero.

As for getting 120 miles range from a 75D that's just ridiculous. There are people on EV forums who can get that from a 30kWh Leaf, so there's definitely something wrong if you only get that from a 75kWh Model S. - ETA just seen that was at 90 mph, so maybe that explains it I wouldn't know about that speed constant.

It's all down to the Wh/ml figure (which unlike an ICE computer mpg figure) is very precise. Things like turning range mode on and properly using the regen braking will help in reducing this figure. Unless you're doing the 0-60 sprints at every light then you should be under 300Wh/ml with relatively sensible driving.

A 75kWh (75,000 watts) divided by 300Wh/ml gives 250 miles range. Obviously thats 100% down to 0% which doesn't happen very often, but it's just an example of what I mean.

ETA - My 260 mile range above was a typo, it should have read 250.

You can't have had your car long as they only starting making 75 cars with the 85 battery in July by most reports and it takes 4 weeks to ship to the holland, then to the UK. I run the website http://tesla.savemylegs.com/forsale.html which includes the battery in the inventory cars and its a relatively recent occurrence to see them. The 75, even if its a limited 85 still has a 3kw anti brick so you'll have 72 usable, if they gave you 75 useable then the car would have a different range to the cars with the BTX5 battery. Sub 300 wh/m is also a hot summer day feature which will soon disappear once the weather starts to change.

[audi321]

Not long no, but 2,000 miles already and due to a mate of a mate working for Tesla, I have a very good understanding of the cars and the technology inside them.

This video explains it clearly and shows that (albeit only over 24km, but a constant 62mph) the Wh/ml is 274 Wh/ml. So I really don't get how you guys are getting such poor figures (unless heavy rain, wind or right foot!)

ETA - Your data is wrong about the production of BTX8 packs. They started in June (which is when mine was built). Also, I'm not 100% you're right about the 3kWh anti brick at the bottom, it's possible they 'could' have got rid of that in the surplus 10kWh also. All to protect the batteries from extreme charge/discharge.

Edited by audi321 on Friday 1st September 14:35

[ntiz]

I have had my car down to 250 why but fk me it was painful driving like that. In the summer I hover around the 320 mark but in winter mine is around the 380.

It can be done to get much improved range but I find it very boring and inconvenient. To be brutally honest I don't see why I should have to compromise my driving enjoyment to get the range and I find it frustrating sometimes to be strangeled on long journeys.

I have a friend who works on the suspension and chassis for these out in the states he got head hubted from Lotus so that explains the handling.. he gets about the same as me and told me it was about right for the way I drive.

I went down to Cornwall in my wife's golf R estate on the bank holiday and I very much enjoyed driving fast and care free. Of course I am in the minority I do a lot of Long journeys quite often under pressure. Day to day staying locally I love my car.

Edited by ntiz on Friday 1st September 14:53

[Heres Johnny]

audi321 said:

This video explains it clearly and shows that (albeit only over 24km, but a constant 62mph) the Wh/ml is 274 Wh/ml. So I really don't get how you guys are getting such poor figures (unless heavy rain, wind or right foot!)

Because nobody drives at a constant 62 mph

[audi321]

Maybe the OP should have bought an ICE car then, as it seems he isn't prepared to offset performance driving for range (although I'd say any performance ICE car will suffer when driven hard).

All I'm saying is, to get decent range IS possible - yes it needs careful driving, but it is possible, and a Wh/ml below 300 is the answer. To come on here and say that his Tesla 75kWh only gets 120 between charges is just not true world driving. I acknowledge he says it was at 90mph with heavy rain and hills, but still......

Edited by audi321 on Friday 1st September 15:12

[Heres Johnny]

audi321 said:

Maybe the OP should have bought an ICE car then, as it seems he isn't prepared to offset performance driving for range (although I'd say any performance ICE car will suffer when driven hard).

All I'm saying is, to get decent range IS possible - yes it needs careful driving, but it is possible, and a Wh/ml below 300 is the answer. To come on here and say that his Tesla 75kWh only gets 120 between charges is just not true world driving. I acknowledge he says it was at 90mph with heavy rain and hills, but still......

Edited by audi321 on Friday 1st September 15:12

I'm somewhere in the middle. 120 is daft I agree, I got more than that thrashing around the TT circuit on the isle of man, but you don't need to make any real compromises driving a Tesla either ie shouldn't need to drive it cautiously if you didn't before.

If you rarely do say 180 miles in a day, a 75 will be fine, if you do 200 a 90 is fine, and 240 a 100 will fit the bill without even needing a top up. If you do a long distances on motorways you can probably find a super charger and dump in another 100+ miles of range in the time it takes to take a comfort break.

[Dazed and Confused]

Saw a rather hideous Model X this morning. SsangYong sprang to mind.

[oop north]

Heres Johnny said:

Because nobody drives at a constant 62 mph

Not quite true - have done about 400 miles this week in my i3 at about that speed. Definitely not designed to do long journeys... (even as a Rex)

[V10 SPM]

Any idea when Tesla will start expanding their dealer network in UK?

[Dazed and Confused]

V10 SPM said:

Any idea when Tesla will start expanding their dealer network in UK?

When they sell some cars maybe.

[DJP31]

V10 SPM said:

Any idea when Tesla will start expanding their dealer network in UK?

They are not franchises, they are wholly owned by Tesla and they are opening new stores/service centres as often as they find suitable sites. In the south east for example, they have just opened a service centre in Weybridge at Brooklands, and another one in Dartford.

Is there a particular area you are concerned about?

[V10 SPM]

Norfolk

[anonymous-user]

V10 SPM said:

Norfolk

Norfolk UK?

I don't think there are any charge points yet, let alone dealers.

I think they have demos at the Swaffham Ecotech centre occasionally.

There is a dealer in Norfolk, VA.