Electric - It shouldn't need my 12 year old to tell you..

[e30m3Mark]

Do modern petrol cars really take all that long to warm up? Mines 20+ years old and even that seems to operate pretty well from cold. Mind you, it doesn't have a heated steering wheel, although I've survived thus far.

Although I have zero interest in owning an EV, I think it's a positive that they're there for those that do. I do wonder how their carbon footprint (for want of a better term) compare overall, including manufacture of the vehicle, batteries etc, to running something like a 20 year old 318i or similar?

Is it better for the planet to crush the older car (assuming it is in good condition, well maintained and running as efficiently as possible for a car of its age) and manufacture a new EV, or simply continue to use the older vehicle?

[InitialDave]

e30m3Mark said:

Do modern petrol cars really take all that long to warm up? Mines 20+ years old and even that seems to operate pretty well from cold.

I mean that I'm comfortable I can get in the Zoe and use full throttle as soon as it's turned on without considering mechanical sympathy, which I can't really do in anything with an engine (unless I don't care about it).

[Heres Johnny]

Knock_knock said:

Also probably relevant to raise the issue of real world consumption (which looks to have been addressed by UoCS for their figures) as while your small diesel example sounds good at 65mpg, I'm noting that the Ford Focus (2014 on) 2.0 TDCi 150 claims 70.6mpg but only gets 51.3mpg.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/ford/focus-20...

And I shan't start about the point pollution generated by diesel, or to a lesser extent petrol engines, compared to the pollution which a small number of power stations produce in this fashion, or in the case of green energy don't.

Real world economy hits the EV world too. A Tesla 100D might have a NEDC range of nearly 400 miles but a real range of 300, so 75% of what you'd expect. Somebody will now post that they drive their 100D at 53 mph and can get 400 miles - but guess what, drive a petrol car at 53mph and you'll get mega fuel economy too.

But to be honest, it doesn't really matter. I don't have a Tesla for the "green" bit anyway.

I saw a post by a new Tesla owner that said he didn't realise he had to hate ICE to be an owner because of the strong pro EV feelings he experienced, and equally you don't need to hate EVs to own an ICE, sad anyone should think that. It reminds me of the hate for performance diesels when they came out, I had a BMW 335D - rocket ship and people hated it because it didn't rev out, but you just rode a wave of torque., I've had a mixed bag in the garage in the same way plenty have a big 4x4 for the school run or going to the tip and a sporty number for the weekend. I don't like the "look how fast a testa is off the line" videos because a Ferrari will be loved by its owner much longer than any Tesla model S - its missing the point on why you own an exotic.

I'm an EV owner who happily talks about the flaws. Its not a weakness to admit its not all things to all people, I don't feel the need to defend it at every opportunity.

And I've just got back from doing a deal to change mine - I feel I need some Ludicrous in my life

[mybrainhurts]

AW111 said:

mybrainhurts said:

Still useless for me. I do 50-80,000 miles a year and can easily notch up 500 miles in a day and I don't have time for charging.

It's a wonder you find time to make the occasional post on PH.

What's that supposed to mean?

[Gary C]

InitialDave said:

Gary C said:

The only positive would be cost of energy

I disagree. One of the really good things about EVs is how quiet and smooth they are, very pleasant for an uninteresting commute compared to the equivalent small hatchback, plus the way they just work immediately without a need for warming up. That is the stuff that was a big selling point for me.

I don't really care about running costs, or how dolphin friendly they are. I bought one because it's actually really nice to use for the kind of driving I mostly do, and I wanted to try one.

Fair enough.

For me, the only positive would be cost of energy as I actually like a noisy car, I actually like a hard riding car. I like everything about an ice but I recognise that the world is changing.

I will be replacing my polo this time next year, and as I no longer need a new driver friendly car, it will almost certainly be replaced by a secondhand gt86 as it does everything I want, however I have played with the idea of an ev but for a similar price, I don't like any of the EV offerings.

The original tesla roadster would suit but too expensive to buy and the current general ev's are not really quite what I want.

[JD]

mybrainhurts said:

What's that supposed to mean?

It is sarcasm, likely based on the fact that although you spend 7 hours driving every single day, presumably work at some point and presumably also sleep at some point, you still manage to power on through and post 17 lots of drivel every single day. Ironically a great deal of them talking about how much you are driving every single day

[gangzoom]

Heres Johnny said:

And I've just got back from doing a deal to change mine - I feel I need some Ludicrous in my life

Doesn't everyone

The P S/X are far too rich for my pockets - though used prices are starting to tempt.

Cannot wait to see what the equivalent 3 comes out like.

[babatunde]

JD said:

mybrainhurts said:

What's that supposed to mean?

It is sarcasm, likely based on the fact that although you spend 7 hours driving every single day, presumably work at some point and presumably also sleep at some point, you still manage to power on through and post 17 lots of drivel every single day. Ironically a great deal of them talking about how much you are driving every single day

driving is his job if he is doing 500miles a day, having said that it occurred to me that he could be a train driver hence the ability to post so much....... er useful information