Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
Burwood said:
From Whatcar Reliability Survey, released yesterday. Tesla now worse than Landrover. The good news is it doesn't seem to impact LR. The big negative is all the warranty work which is very expensive.
What has happened to Honda? And why are Seat and Skoda most always above VW and Audi in these reliability surveys?DonkeyApple said:
Given my love of TVRs and Range Rovers, I really own got to want a Tesla. 
My Tesla sits alongside a Range Rover and an Aston Martin. I'm a glutton for punishment. To be fair, whilst none of them has been perfect, the current selection have mainly behaved themselves.Toaster said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
His attitude to risk is something about him that I find astounding.
why? It’s the norm for lots on entrepreneurs many who risk everything I doubt Musk will lose everything And if you check back at the history, he could have easily have lost everything.
EddieSteadyGo said:
arfursleep said:
Interesting stats, my Model S has been fault free in the 5k since I picked it up the second time...
The first time I picked it up it had a cracked roof and a paint swirl....i knew about the paint swirl (dealer had phoned to advise they couldn't rectify in time so I agreed to pick up and return with a courtesy car to cover repairs) but no-one knew about the crack roof (full glass panoramic) until we left the dealers. Turned round and headed straight back obviously. They were shocked etc and to be fair the service was very good at managing the whole repair, keeping me informed etc and i got to thrash their loaner around for 2 weeks.
I traded a Lexus for the Tesla and the built quality on that was ahead but not IMHO by a massive amount. I love the car but I'm not a fan boy who doesn't see the faults with car, service and company and not criticise accordingly,
My brother has a Range Rover which is no stranger to the dealerships around him, and his TVR sits mainly in his garage gathering dust...
Good post - I feel sure that DonkeyApple is teasing some of the more enthusiastic Tesla supporters for a little bit of sport The first time I picked it up it had a cracked roof and a paint swirl....i knew about the paint swirl (dealer had phoned to advise they couldn't rectify in time so I agreed to pick up and return with a courtesy car to cover repairs) but no-one knew about the crack roof (full glass panoramic) until we left the dealers. Turned round and headed straight back obviously. They were shocked etc and to be fair the service was very good at managing the whole repair, keeping me informed etc and i got to thrash their loaner around for 2 weeks.
I traded a Lexus for the Tesla and the built quality on that was ahead but not IMHO by a massive amount. I love the car but I'm not a fan boy who doesn't see the faults with car, service and company and not criticise accordingly,
My brother has a Range Rover which is no stranger to the dealerships around him, and his TVR sits mainly in his garage gathering dust...
I’m off on a tour of the Factory in Fremont today so will pass on everyone’s good wishes.
DonkeyApple said:
What is of mild interest is that you can draw some very clear correlations between how Tesla is run, how their product is built and it’s quality with Peter Wheeler’s TVR.
IMHO, Wheeler only really made one fundamental error; too many new engines. The Speed Six was a project too far and the execution of it was the crux. It was just one mistake, but a big one.Before people get too smug about that though, remember Porsche had very, very similar technical issues with the engine in the 991.1 GT3.
AstonZagato said:
My Tesla sits alongside a Range Rover and an Aston Martin. I'm a glutton for punishment. To be fair, whilst none of them has been perfect, the current selection have mainly behaved themselves.
Our local Model S owner lives a rather small bungalow and also owns a British built Auto Trail Camper. Hymer, they ain't!Digga said:
MHO, Wheeler only really made one fundamental error; too many new engines. The Speed Six was a project too far and the execution of it was the crux. It was just one mistake, but a big one.
Before people get too smug about that though, remember Porsche had very, very similar technical issues with the engine in the 991.1 GT3.
Agreed but that’s the aspect that sucked the profit out of the tight margins as excess product required house financed warranty work. Before people get too smug about that though, remember Porsche had very, very similar technical issues with the engine in the 991.1 GT3.
The firm also had sales driven by passionate fans who willingly overlooked things like trim flaws.
The bulk of the post sales issues with Tesla do appear to be basic trim flaws rather than mechanical issues ( you’d obviously expect far fewer mechanical issues as there are far fewer mechanical parts and as a result you’d expect an EV to have a huge advantage on these customer surveys).
I’ve gone to look at the S twice now over the years as I would like a large EV capable of 2/300 miles but each time I’ve sat in the showroom car, a car which will have been gone over repeatedly to ensure it was the best it could possibly be and I felt I was sitting in something from Leyland not a 21st century manufacturer. I just couldn’t pay £90k for something with Soviet era shut lines, wonky trim and rattles. The London demonstrator has rattles.
My peers who own them all have the same view that the issues are worth putting up with.
By the time they have fulfilled the 500,000 blind pre-orders on the 3 they will likely have the start of true competition and what will be very interesting to see is how brand power plays out in the EV market as it matures and establishes. Tesla has huge brand power as do the likes of BMW, Merc etc but Tesla’s brand power emanates from a different direction and works differently. We don’t buy BMWs because we believe Stefan Quandt is a visionary who we wish to be associated with. BMW could not sell a Stefan Quandt ‘Founders Edition’ product.
The next decade is going to genuinely interesting to see how that aspect pans out and who ends up with the dominant premium EV brand ahead of the arrival of affordable EVs for the masses.
Assuming the Left Revolution doesn’t arrive sooner than expected and all EV owners are lynched for the Capitalist scum that they are.
The thing is with build quality is that the average Tesla owner probably doesn't care , they are buying the technology so like the omission of the headphone jack on the iphone the shut lines simply don't matter , nor does paint quality etc they will still buy them because the other stuff is more important.
You typical car enthusiast probably cares a whole lot more about such things but in all honesty car enthusiasts have very little impact , most people treat cars the same as a washing machine so what's important to us isn't important to most owners.
You typical car enthusiast probably cares a whole lot more about such things but in all honesty car enthusiasts have very little impact , most people treat cars the same as a washing machine so what's important to us isn't important to most owners.
DonkeyApple said:
Agreed but that’s the aspect that sucked the profit out of the tight margins as excess product required house financed warranty work...
The bulk of the post sales issues with Tesla do appear to be basic trim flaws rather than mechanical issues ( you’d obviously expect far fewer mechanical issues as there are far fewer mechanical parts and as a result you’d expect an EV to have a huge advantage on these customer surveys).
Warranty work is ruinously expensive to orchestrate.The bulk of the post sales issues with Tesla do appear to be basic trim flaws rather than mechanical issues ( you’d obviously expect far fewer mechanical issues as there are far fewer mechanical parts and as a result you’d expect an EV to have a huge advantage on these customer surveys).
With TVR, the one saving grace, aside from enthusiast owners, was the fact most cars were not primary means of transport. Not so with Tesla. When you combine the costs of rectification, the opportunity cost (of staff re-working rather than servicing or building new product) and the money spent on having to provide customers with alternative transport, it is huge.
I can clearly remember visiting Bristol Road, on numerous occasions, toward the end of Wheeler's tenure, and seeing rows of Tuscans and Cerberas, all nose-up because their (Speed Six) engines were being re-worked.
As a prestige manufacturer which, by dint of price tag, Tesla has to be, whether it likes it or not, you need a very loyal customer base and an exceptional product to survive quality issues. It is unclear how this knowledge will affect future sales to new customers.
Edited by Digga on Friday 7th September 15:28
gangzoom said:
I would hope BMW North America is screaming at BMW HQ to get a proper Model 3 rivial to market ASAP, and not just an X3 with a battery stuffed in.
BMW will indeed have significant news on the electric front in the coming months. I'm not under NDA but do have some info from München that this sector is going to be populated with options from them.TooLateForAName said:
Has something happened to this thread?
Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
No idea. Maybe someone's been put on the naughty step? Not me today.Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
At any rate, given the last 24 hours, I'm guessing they will be alongside Musk. Things really do appear to have taken a turn from bad to worse with the multiple executive resignations and the ill-judged, pot-smoking media appearance.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-07...
Digga said:
TooLateForAName said:
Has something happened to this thread?
Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
No idea. Maybe someone's been put on the naughty step? Not me today.Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
At any rate, given the last 24 hours, I'm guessing they will be alongside Musk. Things really do appear to have taken a turn from bad to worse with the multiple executive resignations and the ill-judged, pot-smoking media appearance.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-07...
TooLateForAName said:
Has something happened to this thread?
Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
I assumed some crazy dude cropped up and spent three pages calling everyone quiche driving paedos? Before offering cheap cheap kitchens and a discount Indian fortune telling. Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
Burwood said:
It shows you how immature Musk really is. Rogan goaded him into smoking the weed by saying 'you probably can't do this because the stock holders will get upset'. Musk immediately took it and smoked it.
I watched it last night at least the beginning, he didn't seem "right" I thought he was perhaps nervous or on something pharmaceutical but it turns out he was tipsy on whisky and then blazes one on camera. liner33 said:
Burwood said:
It shows you how immature Musk really is. Rogan goaded him into smoking the weed by saying 'you probably can't do this because the stock holders will get upset'. Musk immediately took it and smoked it.
I watched it last night at least the beginning, he didn't seem "right" I thought he was perhaps nervous or on something pharmaceutical but it turns out he was tipsy on whisky and then blazes one on camera. DonkeyApple said:
TooLateForAName said:
Has something happened to this thread?
Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
I assumed some crazy dude cropped up and spent three pages calling everyone quiche driving paedos? Before offering cheap cheap kitchens and a discount Indian fortune telling. Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
TooLateForAName said:
DonkeyApple said:
TooLateForAName said:
Has something happened to this thread?
Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
I assumed some crazy dude cropped up and spent three pages calling everyone quiche driving paedos? Before offering cheap cheap kitchens and a discount Indian fortune telling. Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
Burwood said:
TooLateForAName said:
DonkeyApple said:
TooLateForAName said:
Has something happened to this thread?
Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
I assumed some crazy dude cropped up and spent three pages calling everyone quiche driving paedos? Before offering cheap cheap kitchens and a discount Indian fortune telling. Its showing to me as 80 pages long but the last pages seem blank with 'nothing to see' messages?
Whats been pruned?
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