Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Agreed but that’s the aspect that sucked the profit out of the tight margins as excess product required house financed warranty work.
The firm also had sales driven by passionate fans who willingly overlooked things like trim flaws.
The bulk of the post sales issues with Tesla do appear to be basic trim flaws rather than mechanical issues ( you’d obviously expect far fewer mechanical issues as there are far fewer mechanical parts and as a result you’d expect an EV to have a huge advantage on these customer surveys).
Drive units and batteries have been replaced under warranty in large numbers on the Model S. Batteries a little less often but drive units are a common theme with numerous failure points.The firm also had sales driven by passionate fans who willingly overlooked things like trim flaws.
The bulk of the post sales issues with Tesla do appear to be basic trim flaws rather than mechanical issues ( you’d obviously expect far fewer mechanical issues as there are far fewer mechanical parts and as a result you’d expect an EV to have a huge advantage on these customer surveys).
A number of Model 3 owners have also reported drive unit failures within hours or days of picking up their cars.
They may have fewer moving parts but those parts when failed are eye wateringly expensive if you don't have warranty.
I'm sure the reliability and cabin quality will improve if Tesla stay in business for long enough but you'd be completely crackers to consider and early Model S or X out of warranty.
Toaster said:
why? It’s the norm for lots on entrepreneurs many who risk everything I doubt Musk will lose everything
But I guess at some point you have to make the transition from the risk it all, f
k it all mentally when you're now running a multi billion dollar public company with st loads of other peoples money invested into it, so he either needs to change or get out of the way.I have zero issues with Tesla products but I think he's hurting the brand at the moment and that's not good for anyone, investors/suppliers or staff.
Edited by Wills2 on Friday 7th September 21:03
EddieSteadyGo said:
If you had made a few hundred million having successfully exited a business, would you then risk the lot in a new venture? Maybe it might be reasonable to consider risking a portion of it, but would you literately gamble everything?
And if you check back at the history, he could have easily have lost everything.
But thats why your not an entrepreneur, have a look at those who have fallen by the wayside lots everything business, family etc climb back and do it again its not unusual its just Musk likes twitter and has had some successes. Most entrepreneur's fail x times then get very rich and some go broke again. Maybe its a life style And if you check back at the history, he could have easily have lost everything.
Wills2 said:
But I guess at some point you have to make the transition from the risk it all, fk it all mentally when your now running a multi billion dollar public company with st loads of other peoples money invested into it, so he either needs to change or get out of the way.
I have zero issues with Tesla products but I think he's hurting the brand at the moment and that's not good for anyone, investors/suppliers or staff.
There is also the small matter that he is responsible for 40,000 people’s jobs, their livelihood, mortgages, families etc. He is free to risk everything that he has but he has absolutely no right whatsoever to risk the welfare of others. k it all mentally when your now running a multi billion dollar public company with st loads of other peoples money invested into it, so he either needs to change or get out of the way.I have zero issues with Tesla products but I think he's hurting the brand at the moment and that's not good for anyone, investors/suppliers or staff.
Could be, 4 week order to delivery is pretty quick for any car manufacturer though which suggests they're running dry of orders on that model.
Maybe they'll start building cars for Europe sooner? I can only hope that'll happen.
Just had a look on the US Tesla site and it's as below. Dual motor AWD Non-Performance has the longest lead time. You don't need to deposit then wait for a build anymore though.
Maybe they'll start building cars for Europe sooner? I can only hope that'll happen.
Just had a look on the US Tesla site and it's as below. Dual motor AWD Non-Performance has the longest lead time. You don't need to deposit then wait for a build anymore though.
Edited by Smiljan on Friday 7th September 20:35
DonkeyApple said:
Wills2 said:
But I guess at some point you have to make the transition from the risk it all, fk it all mentally when your now running a multi billion dollar public company with st loads of other peoples money invested into it, so he either needs to change or get out of the way.
I have zero issues with Tesla products but I think he's hurting the brand at the moment and that's not good for anyone, investors/suppliers or staff.
There is also the small matter that he is responsible for 40,000 people’s jobs, their livelihood, mortgages, families etc. He is free to risk everything that he has but he has absolutely no right whatsoever to risk the welfare of others. k it all mentally when your now running a multi billion dollar public company with st loads of other peoples money invested into it, so he either needs to change or get out of the way.I have zero issues with Tesla products but I think he's hurting the brand at the moment and that's not good for anyone, investors/suppliers or staff.
I want them to succeed though.
Smiljan said:
4 weeks from order to delivery now for the Model 3 - are the orders drying up already?
Only for the RWD+LR model, suggestions are there is a whole load of cancelled orders as alot of people have decided the <10% premium for the AWD model is better value. The only reason I can see for ordering the current RWD+LR version is you 100% need the extra 10% range the RWD version offers over AWD. Demand on the AWD + Performance Models is massive, how many BMW 345i/M3s are sold compared to the 320D?
Found the answer, the best selling 'M' car in America last year was the M2, 12,900 cars.....I suspect by the end of next month Tesla wouldn't be far behind that number in terms 'P' versions of the 3 been delivered.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/01/12/bmw-m-sets-reco...
Edited by gangzoom on Friday 7th September 23:31
gangzoom said:
Smiljan said:
4 weeks from order to delivery now for the Model 3 - are the orders drying up already?
Only for the RWD+LR model, suggestions are there is a whole load of cancelled orders as alot of people have decided the <10% premium for the AWD model is better value. The only reason I can see for ordering the current RWD+LR version is you 100% need the extra 10% range the RWD version offers over AWD. Demand on the AWD + Performance Models is massive, how many BMW 345i/M3s are sold compared to the 320D?
Found the answer, the best selling 'M' car in America last year was the M2, 12,900 cars.....I suspect by the end of next month Tesla wouldn't be far behind that number in terms 'P' versions of the 3 been delivered.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/01/12/bmw-m-sets-reco...
Edited by gangzoom on Friday 7th September 23:31
Still have my fingers crossed for earlier delivery of UK cars
It may just be that they are allocating a % of production capacity to new orders as an important part of building demand and smoothing the transition from fulfilling pre-orders to just open market demand.
At the moment those 20,000 cars a month are going to American consumers who put deposits down some time ago but once that order book is fulfilled the firm will be selling 40,000 cars a month in the conventional manner. Obviously to find buyers the big key is to sell globally but the domestic market is very important and you don’t want to get to the end of fulfilling the last of the pre-orders before getting round to building up that conventional order flow.
Deposit holders might get miffed but I assume they are using the higher cost editions to give a credible reason as to why deposit holders who are refusing to upgrade to buy the top end editions must wait?
At the moment those 20,000 cars a month are going to American consumers who put deposits down some time ago but once that order book is fulfilled the firm will be selling 40,000 cars a month in the conventional manner. Obviously to find buyers the big key is to sell globally but the domestic market is very important and you don’t want to get to the end of fulfilling the last of the pre-orders before getting round to building up that conventional order flow.
Deposit holders might get miffed but I assume they are using the higher cost editions to give a credible reason as to why deposit holders who are refusing to upgrade to buy the top end editions must wait?
DonkeyApple said:
It may just be that they are allocating a % of production capacity to new orders as an important part of building demand and smoothing the transition from fulfilling pre-orders to just open market demand.
At the moment those 20,000 cars a month are going to American consumers who put deposits down some time ago but once that order book is fulfilled the firm will be selling 40,000 cars a month in the conventional manner. Obviously to find buyers the big key is to sell globally but the domestic market is very important and you don’t want to get to the end of fulfilling the last of the pre-orders before getting round to building up that conventional order flow.
Deposit holders might get miffed but I assume they are using the higher cost editions to give a credible reason as to why deposit holders who are refusing to upgrade to buy the top end editions must wait?
I understand the rationale but not the argument. The $1k reservation is fully refundable, if you wanted a car and were being delayed but a new order outside the reservation list would be made, you'd just cancel the reservation and order afresh. It would also kill the notion that a reservation is a good thing to be at the front of the queue, everyone would cancel and Tesla would need to find half a billion dollars to pay them. .At the moment those 20,000 cars a month are going to American consumers who put deposits down some time ago but once that order book is fulfilled the firm will be selling 40,000 cars a month in the conventional manner. Obviously to find buyers the big key is to sell globally but the domestic market is very important and you don’t want to get to the end of fulfilling the last of the pre-orders before getting round to building up that conventional order flow.
Deposit holders might get miffed but I assume they are using the higher cost editions to give a credible reason as to why deposit holders who are refusing to upgrade to buy the top end editions must wait?
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