Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
gangzoom said:
Heres Johnny said:
Can you point me to a Tesla you can buy for under 35k?
Can you point me to a new Tesla you can buy in the UK for under twice that?
Different horses for different courses.
So you actually think BMW will be able to release a 700km real life range EV by 2021?Can you point me to a new Tesla you can buy in the UK for under twice that?
Different horses for different courses.
There is BS and there is BS, the world is full of it.
RobDickinson said:
Outlander phev, and yeah the garage bit, that still exists 
Still own the mx5 tho.
And yes I'm waiting for a decent full bev 4wd suv. I thought the Kona might be it (still waiting for a test drive) but its 2wd :/
So what the range on that on electric? 30 miles? And everything else you have burns oil?Still own the mx5 tho.
And yes I'm waiting for a decent full bev 4wd suv. I thought the Kona might be it (still waiting for a test drive) but its 2wd :/
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 11th October 08:28
Not very green Rob?
Burwood said:
If you go to autocar today there is a write-up on the E-Tron. 95kw/h battery 250 mile range. It’s an electric q8 basically. Big lump of a thing. Good enough? Anyone in the know care to point out the inadequacies.
Top Gear said:
Allow me to take a break from torturing that particular metaphor and give you the headlines, in case you haven’t watched my colleague Jack Rix’s rather excellent explanatory video. Audi’s first proper EV is a conspicuously inconspicuous – the company didn’t want to scare away its existing customers with something too futuristic – SUV that will cost about £70K when it reaches the UK next year. Far as size goes, it’s a five-seater somewhere between a Q5 and Q7, at 4,901mm long, 1,935mm wide and 1,616mm high. A more svelte ‘Sportback’ version is next.
A whopping 700kg battery (that’s heavier than an entire Ariel Atom) contributes to an overall weight well in excess of two tonnes, despite the extensive use of aluminium in the car’s construction. And yet, the e-Tron launches to 62mph with the characteristic punch of an EV (yes children, it does have launch control), hitting the milestone in 5.7 seconds before running into the buffers at 124mph. On the WLTP cycle, you’re looking at 250 miles or so between recharges.
Sounds smaller than a q8? iPace size/touch bigger ? A whopping 700kg battery (that’s heavier than an entire Ariel Atom) contributes to an overall weight well in excess of two tonnes, despite the extensive use of aluminium in the car’s construction. And yet, the e-Tron launches to 62mph with the characteristic punch of an EV (yes children, it does have launch control), hitting the milestone in 5.7 seconds before running into the buffers at 124mph. On the WLTP cycle, you’re looking at 250 miles or so between recharges.
Is the Hyundai Kona the game changer in all of this?
https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric#n...
https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/personal...
https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric#n...
https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/personal...
saaby93 said:
Is the Hyundai Kona the game changer in all of this?
https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric#n...
https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/personal...
It really does show what can be done for a reasonable cost although it is vastly more expensive than the petrol powered Kona. If Hyundai can do it, I'm sure others can.https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric#n...
https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/personal...
Smiljan said:
saaby93 said:
Is the Hyundai Kona the game changer in all of this?
https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric#n...
https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/personal...
It really does show what can be done for a reasonable cost although it is vastly more expensive than the petrol powered Kona. If Hyundai can do it, I'm sure others can.https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric#n...
https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/personal...
REALIST123 said:
RobDickinson said:
REALIST123 said:
So what the range on that on electric? 30 miles? And everything else you have burns oil?
Not very green Rob?
it does my commute on electric, I get 2500-3000kms on a tank , or 200-250mpg... Not very green Rob?
saaby93 said:
Is the Hyundai Kona the game changer in all of this?
https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric#n...
https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/personal...
Looks like a very useful suburban runabout. But if you rule out pensioners and people who do not own a driveway, how Hyundai customers are left? https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric#n...
https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/personal...
DonkeyApple said:
Maybe the mindset of the mainstream manufacturers is that all the real and stable money over the next couple of decades is from hybrids and that they are only currently getting involved in EVs ruluctantly as they know that commercially they don’t make sense yet?
Just because the Tesla business model stipulates that spending billions on a charger network is right for them doesn’t per se equate to it being right or wrong for other firms who are not start-ups burning investor capital but established enterprises that require different types of return from any investment.
The next decade is going to be highly volatile for pure EVs. They are currently a luxury purchase, not a necessity so highly prone to changes in any economic cycle and on top of that the defining underlying cost of the battery packs is at the mercy of a very feeble and under developed supply chain.
If you were Tesla then you can see that you absolutely need to invest in a charging network as part of your plan but if you were BMW, Mercedes or any of the major multinationals then you’d have a very different view which is that the billions you go to the bond market to borrow must yeild a strong return and that does mean backing hybrids over EVs. All the legislation to 2040 is to push urban consumers into either hybrids or EVs, few consumers can afford EVs but all can afford hybrids. The incumbents know that hybrids are where they will be competing against each other. Their EV offerings are more akin to marketing efforts than real consumer profit drives.
I do think it’s important to understand the huge difference between the two types of company, what they can and can’t do with raised money and that their objectives over the next decade are really very, very different.
This...Just because the Tesla business model stipulates that spending billions on a charger network is right for them doesn’t per se equate to it being right or wrong for other firms who are not start-ups burning investor capital but established enterprises that require different types of return from any investment.
The next decade is going to be highly volatile for pure EVs. They are currently a luxury purchase, not a necessity so highly prone to changes in any economic cycle and on top of that the defining underlying cost of the battery packs is at the mercy of a very feeble and under developed supply chain.
If you were Tesla then you can see that you absolutely need to invest in a charging network as part of your plan but if you were BMW, Mercedes or any of the major multinationals then you’d have a very different view which is that the billions you go to the bond market to borrow must yeild a strong return and that does mean backing hybrids over EVs. All the legislation to 2040 is to push urban consumers into either hybrids or EVs, few consumers can afford EVs but all can afford hybrids. The incumbents know that hybrids are where they will be competing against each other. Their EV offerings are more akin to marketing efforts than real consumer profit drives.
I do think it’s important to understand the huge difference between the two types of company, what they can and can’t do with raised money and that their objectives over the next decade are really very, very different.
dukeboy749r said:
DonkeyApple said:
Maybe the mindset of the mainstream manufacturers is that all the real and stable money over the next couple of decades is from hybrids and that they are only currently getting involved in EVs ruluctantly as they know that commercially they don’t make sense yet?
Just because the Tesla business model stipulates that spending billions on a charger network is right for them doesn’t per se equate to it being right or wrong for other firms who are not start-ups burning investor capital but established enterprises that require different types of return from any investment.
The next decade is going to be highly volatile for pure EVs. They are currently a luxury purchase, not a necessity so highly prone to changes in any economic cycle and on top of that the defining underlying cost of the battery packs is at the mercy of a very feeble and under developed supply chain.
If you were Tesla then you can see that you absolutely need to invest in a charging network as part of your plan but if you were BMW, Mercedes or any of the major multinationals then you’d have a very different view which is that the billions you go to the bond market to borrow must yeild a strong return and that does mean backing hybrids over EVs. All the legislation to 2040 is to push urban consumers into either hybrids or EVs, few consumers can afford EVs but all can afford hybrids. The incumbents know that hybrids are where they will be competing against each other. Their EV offerings are more akin to marketing efforts than real consumer profit drives.
I do think it’s important to understand the huge difference between the two types of company, what they can and can’t do with raised money and that their objectives over the next decade are really very, very different.
This...Just because the Tesla business model stipulates that spending billions on a charger network is right for them doesn’t per se equate to it being right or wrong for other firms who are not start-ups burning investor capital but established enterprises that require different types of return from any investment.
The next decade is going to be highly volatile for pure EVs. They are currently a luxury purchase, not a necessity so highly prone to changes in any economic cycle and on top of that the defining underlying cost of the battery packs is at the mercy of a very feeble and under developed supply chain.
If you were Tesla then you can see that you absolutely need to invest in a charging network as part of your plan but if you were BMW, Mercedes or any of the major multinationals then you’d have a very different view which is that the billions you go to the bond market to borrow must yeild a strong return and that does mean backing hybrids over EVs. All the legislation to 2040 is to push urban consumers into either hybrids or EVs, few consumers can afford EVs but all can afford hybrids. The incumbents know that hybrids are where they will be competing against each other. Their EV offerings are more akin to marketing efforts than real consumer profit drives.
I do think it’s important to understand the huge difference between the two types of company, what they can and can’t do with raised money and that their objectives over the next decade are really very, very different.
Burwood said:
For me i'll get a PHEV first but it will have to be able to do 100 miles on electric.
tbh 50 or 100 wouldnt make that much difference to me50 covers my commute, 100 would be wasted most of the time, and the rest I'd still end up burning some petrol.
The number of trips I do that is 50-100km is few.
Smiljan said:
saaby93 said:
Is the Hyundai Kona the game changer in all of this?
https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric#n...
https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/personal...
It really does show what can be done for a reasonable cost although it is vastly more expensive than the petrol powered Kona. If Hyundai can do it, I'm sure others can.https://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric#n...
https://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/personal...
Assume the model 3 SR next year and the VW ID in 2020 will be similar range/price.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff