Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
REALIST123 said:
rscott said:
So only half the amount lost by GM in 2017 then?
To be fair, you have no need to misquote GM’s results to make the point.
I’m sure you know what the true figures and circumstances of GM are and that the ‘loss’ you’ve quoted is due to tax law change?
What about the $8B + Ford profits? Or the FCA $4B +?
liner33 said:
The shift to EV's is happening faster and accelerating but the big players have joined the game and Tesla are not in a position to exploit this
Apart from building a huge battery factory...Not to mention a huge lead in installing charging infrastructure...
What else are they supposed to do? Blow up petrol refineries?
frisbee said:
Apart from building a huge battery factory...
Not to mention a huge lead in installing charging infrastructure...
What else are they supposed to do? Blow up petrol refineries?
They are suppose to show that they are capable of making a decent number of model 3s (fail so far) and making S and X fault free and with an interior worth the cost. Subjective, but a fail from meNot to mention a huge lead in installing charging infrastructure...
What else are they supposed to do? Blow up petrol refineries?
frisbee said:
Not to mention a huge lead in installing charging infrastructure...
Yeah but no but yeah.I saw a statistic the other day from the CEO of PodPoint. 60% of charging takes place at home. 30% happens at work. 7% is done using destination chargers. Only 3% is "en-route"
I have had a Model X for a few months and about 3,500 miles. I've used a Supercharger once. And even then, I didn't really need to do it - I'd have made it home without - so mainly out of curiosity.
However, that said, it was massively impressive. 280miles per hour of charge. I got 80 miles of range in the time it took me to get a coffee and drink it.
liner33 said:
AstonZagato said:
Well, yes they can.
It depends on investors’ tolerance and their desire to fund the company to some future point where it might be profitable.
One current bullish argument is that Tesla is the Amazon of cars. It’s a land grab. Amazon net made no money for the first 12 years of its life, iirc, but it made the market its own. Cars are different but there maybe some truth in the view - the shift to EV is happening faster and is accelerating.
Whatever one’s own views, there has been no shortage of investors willing to back Musk’s ambition. Up till now. The recent equity market volatility might just halt that. If capital markets close to Tesla before Model 3 cash flows start in earnest, it may be in real trouble. Amazon shares lost 95% of their value in 2000-2003.
If the bull market shrugs this episode off then Tesla will probably thrive.
The shift to EV's is happening faster and accelerating but the big players have joined the game and Tesla are not in a position to exploit this It depends on investors’ tolerance and their desire to fund the company to some future point where it might be profitable.
One current bullish argument is that Tesla is the Amazon of cars. It’s a land grab. Amazon net made no money for the first 12 years of its life, iirc, but it made the market its own. Cars are different but there maybe some truth in the view - the shift to EV is happening faster and is accelerating.
Whatever one’s own views, there has been no shortage of investors willing to back Musk’s ambition. Up till now. The recent equity market volatility might just halt that. If capital markets close to Tesla before Model 3 cash flows start in earnest, it may be in real trouble. Amazon shares lost 95% of their value in 2000-2003.
If the bull market shrugs this episode off then Tesla will probably thrive.
RobDickinson said:
The big players still have pitiful plans for the near future.
Project Ionity (BMW, Daimler, Ford, VW, Audi, Porsche, Shell etc) announced last year launch fast charging across Europe, between 150 and 350 kW (Tesla supercharge is currently max 145W).VW's 'Electrify America' rolling out.
Most significantly- Audi have said their all e-tron quattro all-electric SUV will be out in 2018 to take advantage of these points and compete with Model X, and if Audi are releasing this year, then you would expect the remainder of the VAG group to follow shortly, followed by the others. Jag's IPace is also nearing release, so it's stablemate Land/Range Rovers can also be expected.
The big players are on their way, whilst EV sales make up a small number of total car sales, they have been taking their time about it, their shareholders recently however have got very vocal with them about the danger of Tesla.
Audi's offering is £60k, according to Grand Tour, Model X is £150k!
All well and good that the Tesla Model 3 is cheaper, but the trend seems to be for Suv's so Tesla really need a cheaper one of those - Model Y needs to be put sooner than later.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 11th February 21:14
RobDickinson said:
I'm not convinced they have anywhere near the battery supplies to make volume cars until into the 2020s
Audi have been working on the eTron for years, in 2015 they announced that both LG and Samsung had been signed up to supply batteries. So with not just one, but two massive names on board with a few years notice, surely battery supplies shouldn't be a limiting factor?
https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/press-releases...
I think Tesla will really need to spend more on its marketing once these players launch, as they have a massive sales and fleet network along with marketing, huge customer databases and leases rolling over to new cars, local presence and so on.
Edited by hyphen on Sunday 11th February 21:20
RobDickinson said:
So it'll be likely to be revealed at the Paris auto show in October. In customers hands this year? Unlikely...
Doesn't matter too much- they are taking reservation deposits already in 4 EU countries, so customers will wait as with the Tesla 3 
Expected to be delivering this year though in the first launch market, Norway.
RobDickinson said:
It's roughly half saturn v launch capability. For 90 million dollars. Try making a saturn v for that...
It's for heavy satellites, already has several customers. The main point of heavy is to put 8 tons into gto and still be reusable.
Bfr will launch 150 tons to orbit , more than saturn v and be fully reusable.
The Saturn V, VIII and Nova were conceived as being reusable but there wasn't the time to develop it. If they'd kept those series of rockets and not spent all that money on the daft Shuttle then it could have been like the Soyuz and just been tweaked and refitted. Could have been far cheaper than what they're doing at the moment. But it's great that SpaceX are challenging the notion that going to space is insanely expensive It's for heavy satellites, already has several customers. The main point of heavy is to put 8 tons into gto and still be reusable.
Bfr will launch 150 tons to orbit , more than saturn v and be fully reusable.
hyphen said:
So any base model Model 3 reservation holders here? How are you feeling about this weeks news that you are being pushed back a year for your delivery.
Any cancellations?
I cancelled my 31/3-2016 TM3-reservation yesterday after receiving notice of yet another delivery delay. Expected delivery 2019. I will sell my current TMS and go for the I-pace or the e-Tron. I have early reservations on both. And The reservation for the I-pace expires end February when Jaguar opens up for everyone, at least here in Norway. Any cancellations?
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Forbes said:
Following the conference call, customers who had reservations for the Model 3 saw their projected delivery dates change, as reported by Green Car Reports and InsideEVs.
"Most notably, those who had reserved the base [$35,000] Model 3 rather than the Long Range version saw their dates pushed back to late 2018 and early 2019," said Green Car Reports. And as Electrek reports Tesla has pushed back "standard battery" (aka $35,000 Model 3 with 220 mile range and rear-wheel drive) to early 2019.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2018/02/11/tesla-week-get-ready-for-the-model-y-and-delays-for-some-model-3-variants/#4a5a7fa63a94"Most notably, those who had reserved the base [$35,000] Model 3 rather than the Long Range version saw their dates pushed back to late 2018 and early 2019," said Green Car Reports. And as Electrek reports Tesla has pushed back "standard battery" (aka $35,000 Model 3 with 220 mile range and rear-wheel drive) to early 2019.
Edited by hyphen on Monday 12th February 20:37
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff