Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

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Witchfinder

6,250 posts

253 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
EddieSteadyGo said:
Now call my cynical, but that would be at least £20k depreciation every 9 months, and probably more. He mentioned the guy was buying the car through his business.
Sounds like money laundering!

EddieSteadyGo

11,998 posts

204 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Witchfinder said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
Now call my cynical, but that would be at least £20k depreciation every 9 months, and probably more. He mentioned the guy was buying the car through his business.
Sounds like money laundering!
What I described wouldn't be money laundering - it might technically be some kind of tax fraud in the strictest sense, but I think it most likely falls into a grey area - after all, lots of company directors buy cars from their business. They have an obligation to obtain fair market value, so if the director just gets a very low valuation from somewhere like "we buy any car" which they use as a benchmark value, it would be hard for HMRC to argue I think.

I'm speculating to some degree, as I'm not certain this is what some people are doing - it just isn't what HMRC intended when they made their rules imho.


Heres Johnny

7,232 posts

125 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
ElectricSoup said:
Heres Johnny said:
ElectricSoup said:
Sure, work charging could stop. Then I'd have to pay about £30 a month to do my monthly 800 miles. That's a lot cheaper than diesel - I have a second diesel car which would cost £180 to fuel to go 800 miles (2005 E320 CDI estate). Also, how is my PCP subsidised? It's a PCP on a used car. There is no subsidy. I expect to change the car for another (3 years newer) used car on a PCP for a broadly similar rate after 3 years. VED? Nope. All Nissan Leafs are still VED free.

Of course there will be changes. I can't envisage one which will make a used Nissan Leaf as expensive to buy and run as an equivalent aged VW Golf ICE however. Not yet.
Your Merc is dreadful - buy a BMW, my old BMW 640D gran coupe used to do 40mpg all day long, ok it would cost £130 not £30 to do 800 miles but it would do it in a lot of comfort.
In what way would a 640 gran coupe do the work of an E Class estate? I mostly use it for lifting and shifting of family, dog, luggage etc, and it only does about 3k miles a year. In town it does 30mpg but I don't care as I need to use it so infrequently as I have a Leaf to do almost all my daily needs. Your opinion of the car is totally irrelevant and I've no idea why you're trying to pick a fight. My Merc is enormously comfortable thanks. It's worth about £2000 and I've no idea how a £2000 BMW of any kind would be meaningfully superior in any way.
So are you comparing apples with apples when you talk about your EV being cheap and your do everything, only just this side of being a transit van being expensive on fuel?

jjwilde

1,904 posts

97 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
So 130 pages and all that's happened is both companies have got more successful. I remember threads like this about the iPhone/Apple.

I remember conversations like this about mobile phones and the internet. They could never work for (reasons we overcame).

Burwood

18,709 posts

247 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Why is über more successful? Genuine question.

Burwood

18,709 posts

247 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Once Uber has its IPO, which it will by March 19 we can start bashing it. It’s a POS company that’s creates nothing but misery in my opinion. Anyone who buys the stock with a 120b valuation is a moron. It has pissed through 20b and still loses 1b a quarter. I say they will never make a return. They’ve had 18 fundraising rounds.


EddieSteadyGo

11,998 posts

204 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Burwood said:
Once Uber has its IPO, which it will by March 19 we can start bashing it. It’s a POS company that’s creates nothing but misery in my opinion. Anyone who buys the stock with a 120b valuation is a moron. It has pissed through 20b and still loses 1b a quarter. I say they will never make a return. They’ve had 18 fundraising rounds.
I'm not interested in investing in it, but I do use it and like it. To me, it doesn't matter if Uber as a company makes it or not - the concept is excellent and will continue to thrive, whether via an Uber app or Lyft or something else.

jjwilde

1,904 posts

97 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Burwood said:
Once Uber has its IPO, which it will by March 19 we can start bashing it. It’s a POS company that’s creates nothing but misery in my opinion. Anyone who buys the stock with a 120b valuation is a moron. It has pissed through 20b and still loses 1b a quarter. I say they will never make a return. They’ve had 18 fundraising rounds.
How is it? I know loads of Uber drivers who absolutely love working for them.

I use Uber most days and it's excellent. Far better than black cabs.

DonkeyApple

55,430 posts

170 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Burwood said:
Why is über more successful? Genuine question.
Because they’ve managed to prove that their car can kill someone and the passenger gets the blame?

DonkeyApple

55,430 posts

170 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
jjwilde said:
Burwood said:
Once Uber has its IPO, which it will by March 19 we can start bashing it. It’s a POS company that’s creates nothing but misery in my opinion. Anyone who buys the stock with a 120b valuation is a moron. It has pissed through 20b and still loses 1b a quarter. I say they will never make a return. They’ve had 18 fundraising rounds.
How is it? I know loads of Uber drivers who absolutely love working for them.

I use Uber most days and it's excellent. Far better than black cabs.
Those drivers may not be so happy when the firm reaches the point of having to make a profit or when they are replaced by a ZX81.

EddieSteadyGo

11,998 posts

204 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
jjwilde said:
I use Uber most days and it's excellent. Far better than black cabs.
Yep. No need to carry cash, billing done via the app, you know the approx cost before you start, and it's easy to get one.

hyphen

26,262 posts

91 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
jjwilde said:
How is it? I know loads of Uber drivers who absolutely love working for them.

I use Uber most days and it's excellent. Far better than black cabs.
Why do they love working for them?

Witchfinder

6,250 posts

253 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
EddieSteadyGo said:
I'm not interested in investing in it, but I do use it and like it. To me, it doesn't matter if Uber as a company makes it or not - the concept is excellent and will continue to thrive, whether via an Uber app or Lyft or something else.
I work for a company that networks cab companies together to effectively make them a national Uber competitor. The cab companies have their own local apps, but you can book anywhere in the UK.

We're handling more than 1.5m bookings per day worldwide, with a LOT less resources than Uber. Uber is a well known name, but it's massively overvalued.

EddieSteadyGo

11,998 posts

204 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
Witchfinder said:
I work for a company that networks cab companies together to effectively make them a national Uber competitor. The cab companies have their own local apps, but you can book anywhere in the UK.

We're handling more than 1.5m bookings per day worldwide, with a LOT less resources than Uber. Uber is a well known name, but it's massively overvalued.
Makes sense and sounds good. IMO this type of solution is the way forward.

I remember the old days when you tried to call a private hire company, and they would pick and choose whether they were interested in taking the job. So you might have to call 3 or 4 companies to find someone a) able to do the job b) willing to do the job c) able to offer a reasonable price.

I know Uber are having a few problems with drivers checking the destination and then cancelling, but this will be ironed out. Uber drivers mostly realise they need to take the rough with the smooth, and that's better in the long term for everyone including drivers and customers.

jjwilde

1,904 posts

97 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Why do they love working for them?
Because they make a lot of money from it. I live in Newcastle, they make excellent wages for this area. It leads to a superb quality of life up here. They can work whenever they want too which almost all of them mention as an excellent benefit.

They also tell me horror stories about local cab firms they used to work for, often owned by criminal families.

EddieSteadyGo

11,998 posts

204 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
jjwilde said:
<snip>
They also tell me horror stories about local cab firms they used to work for, often owned by criminal families.
Apparently great businesses for money laundering, hence the attraction...

Tony427

2,873 posts

234 months

Tuesday 11th December 2018
quotequote all
When I am in China I use a system very simlar to Uber called DiDi.

Looks like its purloined or borrowed uber's operating procedures and to be frank its brilliant and , as it would be in China, brilliant value.

The driving is atrocious however.

Cheers,
Tony





skwdenyer

16,536 posts

241 months

Wednesday 12th December 2018
quotequote all
EddieSteadyGo said:
Burwood said:
Once Uber has its IPO, which it will by March 19 we can start bashing it. It’s a POS company that’s creates nothing but misery in my opinion. Anyone who buys the stock with a 120b valuation is a moron. It has pissed through 20b and still loses 1b a quarter. I say they will never make a return. They’ve had 18 fundraising rounds.
I'm not interested in investing in it, but I do use it and like it. To me, it doesn't matter if Uber as a company makes it or not - the concept is excellent and will continue to thrive, whether via an Uber app or Lyft or something else.
I've given up using Uber in London in general. For the times I want to travel and the journeys I want to make, a black cab is no more expensive, more available, quicker (travels in bus lanes, driver has knowledge and a brain), and supports a service I'd like to see remain. It is also just as convenient to book by app, pay by card, etc. Uber adds no value for me in London now.

The only time I use Uber now is for Uber Pool if I'm not in a hurry and want to save some cash. You meet interesting people that way!

I used Uber in Newcastle the other day. Fantastic service, lovely drivers, everything just worked. But it was just a minicab - Uber added a recognisable brand on top, that's all. I already had the app, so I used it. But little barrier to entry.

ElectricSoup

8,202 posts

152 months

Wednesday 12th December 2018
quotequote all
Heres Johnny said:
ElectricSoup said:
Heres Johnny said:
ElectricSoup said:
Sure, work charging could stop. Then I'd have to pay about £30 a month to do my monthly 800 miles. That's a lot cheaper than diesel - I have a second diesel car which would cost £180 to fuel to go 800 miles (2005 E320 CDI estate). Also, how is my PCP subsidised? It's a PCP on a used car. There is no subsidy. I expect to change the car for another (3 years newer) used car on a PCP for a broadly similar rate after 3 years. VED? Nope. All Nissan Leafs are still VED free.

Of course there will be changes. I can't envisage one which will make a used Nissan Leaf as expensive to buy and run as an equivalent aged VW Golf ICE however. Not yet.
Your Merc is dreadful - buy a BMW, my old BMW 640D gran coupe used to do 40mpg all day long, ok it would cost £130 not £30 to do 800 miles but it would do it in a lot of comfort.
In what way would a 640 gran coupe do the work of an E Class estate? I mostly use it for lifting and shifting of family, dog, luggage etc, and it only does about 3k miles a year. In town it does 30mpg but I don't care as I need to use it so infrequently as I have a Leaf to do almost all my daily needs. Your opinion of the car is totally irrelevant and I've no idea why you're trying to pick a fight. My Merc is enormously comfortable thanks. It's worth about £2000 and I've no idea how a £2000 BMW of any kind would be meaningfully superior in any way.
So are you comparing apples with apples when you talk about your EV being cheap and your do everything, only just this side of being a transit van being expensive on fuel?
I'll have a go at answering this if you can translate it in to some kind of words which makes sense.

Toaster

2,939 posts

194 months

Wednesday 12th December 2018
quotequote all
ElectricSoup said:
Sure, work charging could stop. Then I'd have to pay about £30 a month to do my monthly 800 miles. That's a lot cheaper than diesel - I have a second diesel car which would cost £180 to fuel to go 800 miles (2005 E320 CDI estate). Also, how is my PCP subsidised? It's a PCP on a used car. There is no subsidy. I expect to change the car for another (3 years newer) used car on a PCP for a broadly similar rate after 3 years. VED? Nope. All Nissan Leafs are still VED free.

Of course there will be changes. I can't envisage one which will make a used Nissan Leaf as expensive to buy and run as an equivalent aged VW Golf ICE however. Not yet.
Don't worry Im sure once ICE Cars have gone and most if not all are driving Electric, the government will find a way of taxing you for the difference in your current savings, its just they haven't worked out yet how.........in the same way they will charge you for a media licence instead of a TV licence. Watch this space wink
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