Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

[skwdenyer]

Heres Johnny said:

Frankly I don’t believe any of these surveys, I use to do market analyst calls and the approach and judging is far from impartial. But if I did I’d just look at Tesla, see he didn’t rank in the top 50 and companies like GM were higher.

Funny how people dispute reliability surveys that put Tesla way behind everyone else but believe the ones that pander to their beliefs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA

[RobDickinson]

I'm also not sure who is disputing reliability surveys on tesla ?

They will work for a half a million kms but will also need fixing.

I'm keeping a close eye on the model 3 because i might end up with one and theres many niggles (real lights, trim, indicator etc) none of which is serious and they all get fixed, theres also a few that need more serious work etc. By the time I possibly get one I expect most of those things to be sorted ( a recent 3 is quite different build to an initial one) but could have other issues.

S's , esp early ones, well known for needing new door handle,s screens and motors and sometimes battery packs etc. I know one person in NZ with 4 evs (3 tesla, 1 leaf) and guess what the leaf is by far the most reliable..

[Heres Johnny]

Good to see you’re ok with this, Tesla at 50.9% the next worst at 83% and the rest into the 90%s. That’s not even close.

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-what-car-reliabi...

Weren’t people saying ‘small sample size’ and ‘it’s just a bit of panel fit’?,

As an aside, are you in NZ or Aus? I’ve added a dedicated Aus site to Tesla info (I have problems with Tesla but I still also actively support them), the NZ inventory is on the EU and ROW version. I’m looking into adding used inventory not sold by Tesla to the Aus one soon

https://tesla-info.com/AU/inventory.html

Edited by Heres Johnny on Wednesday 19th December 21:08

[RobDickinson]

I'm in NZ, will be buying new direct from Tesla I expect (if i get one).

We dont even have a service center on the south island yet so (unlike most of the bullst in this thread) the actual practicalities of running a tesla as a daily are important. It seems they send down engineers regularly but we all expect a Chc based service center for when the 3 is launched.

It looks like most of the issues are niggles you can live with until fixed.

[Burwood]

If you wait a while, Rob, you could have VAG products which fit your bill.

[RobDickinson]

Burwood said:

If you wait a while, Rob, you could have VAG products which fit your bill.

I'd rather buy a tesla tbh, interior, looks, updates and tech etc all more my speed.

VAG things bore the st out of me, and how could I trust the lying bds?

Honestly the ID SUV looks like it'll be OK but I dont expect to see it here until at least 2021 but more likely 2022. I'll have a model Y or Rivian by then!

[AstonZagato]

On reliability, my Model X's heater has just packed up. Also, the touch screen has the yellow border effect. Both are common faults, looking at the owners' club newsfeed.

Parts not in stock for the heater (lots going wrong). Car unusable in this weather (cold and misting up). Won't be fixed this side of Christmas/New Year. No Teslas available as courtesy cars in the meantime.

The touch screen is out of stock too but the problem is that the new ones might develop the same fault. The recommendation is to live with it until they engineer a screen that doesn't degrade.

Not very impressive.

[gangzoom]

AstonZagato said:

On reliability, my Model X's heater has just packed up. Also, the touch screen has the yellow border effect. Both are common faults, looking at the owners' club newsfeed.

Parts not in stock for the heater (lots going wrong). Car unusable in this weather (cold and misting up). Won't be fixed this side of Christmas/New Year. No Teslas available as courtesy cars in the meantime.

The touch screen is out of stock too but the problem is that the new ones might develop the same fault. The recommendation is to live with it until they engineer a screen that doesn't degrade.

Not very impressive.

Sounds like a pain, especially before the holidays. Luckily the only thing gone wrong with our X is the yellow border - which has been replaced. I expect it might come back as I think they need to sort out a change of supplier. Otherwise the last 16K has been much less troublesome than when I had the 335i. Wifes combustion Lexus is on a different league though, 22k, still have 4mm tread on original tyres, not needed to add a single drop of oil/water etc. If Lexus did an EV we'll get one tomorrow, but sadly they don't

What were the sign/issues with the heating on the X?

Ours is now 14 months old, am keeping an eye out for 12V battery issues.

Hope Tesla can sort out your issues soon!!

Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 20th December 13:33

[Heres Johnny]

Heater goes pop, literally, and stops working. I think there's around 50 reported cases in the Uk at the moment, which is about one in 60 of all MX on the road in the UK as it seems to be ,argely an MX issue.

[kambites]

Presumably the heater in question is an air-source heat pump? That being the case, I wonder if we'll see these sorts of failures becoming common on various EVs as the manufacturers get to grips with this (to them) entirely new technology.

Tesla do seem particularly poorly equipped to deal it though. I suppose they're running their parts supply on a very tight "just in time" basis so they simply don't have enough stocks of parts to deal with a wide-spread failure of a single complex component.

[skwdenyer]

kambites said:

Presumably the heater in question is an air-source heat pump? That being the case, I wonder if we'll see these sorts of failures becoming common on various EVs as the manufacturers get to grips with this (to them) entirely new technology.

Tesla do seem particularly poorly equipped to deal it though. I suppose they're running their parts supply on a very tight "just in time" basis so they simply don't have enough stocks of parts to deal with a wide-spread failure of a single complex component.

Is this not a simple resistive heater?

[hunter 66]

After 2 years still no issues .... maybe been lucky , although did not like the recent upgrade which moved everything around on the Pad ......... when asking about why , was told you can now play games on it ???

[kambites]

skwdenyer said:

Is this not a simple resistive heater?

I thought not, but I might be wrong.

[Burwood]

Google says Different vehicles have different systems.
Tesla has regular air heater to heat the cabin. As it has large battery heating takes only few percents of the whole battery. It uses AC compressor to cool the cabin and even battery while supercharging.

[kambites]

Ah yes, it would appear you're right. Well that's even stter then if they can't get a simple fan heater to work; you can buy a perfectly good one of them from Homebase for about £10.

[RobDickinson]

Its odd Tesla still uses resistive heating when it has an ac compressor already, most EVs are using heat pumps now

[jjwilde]

RobDickinson said:

Its odd Tesla still uses resistive heating when it has an ac compressor already, most EVs are using heat pumps now

They do it a bit differently on the 3. They sort of overrun the motor to gain heat apparently.

[RobDickinson]

jjwilde said:

RobDickinson said:

Its odd Tesla still uses resistive heating when it has an ac compressor already, most EVs are using heat pumps now

They do it a bit differently on the 3. They sort of overrun the motor to gain heat apparently.

AFIk they can do that to heat the pack or such but the cabin still uses a ~4kw resistive heater?

[gangzoom]

RobDickinson said:

Its odd Tesla still uses resistive heating when it has an ac compressor already, most EVs are using heat pumps now

Tesla HVAC system is actually reasonable when temp drop, after an initial hit the energy consumption isn't that bad. 1.6kWh per hour to keep something the size of the X warm enough to sleep in at -15 C.

My old Leaf would pull 2-3KW when temps dropped below 0 C, that's with a heat pump.

Model 3 apparently doesn't have a battery heater, which means cold weather perfomance may be as bad as a Leaf and worse than S/X.

https://youtu.be/3F0JdfXOAN8

[RobDickinson]

I though the 3 used the inductance heating from the motor to warm up the pack?

In very cold conditions heat pumps fall down vs resistive heating (I use 2 heat pumps at home) but for most average cold conditions they are more efficient typically.