Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
Smiljan said:
Is Burwood incorrect about the 40% consumption tax based on engine size then?
Oh thats probably correct too, its just US import duty for cars was at 40% dropped to 15%, not EV specific, not sure what the Euro->China tariff is? I'd assume a US produced large engined ICE car would be expensive in China too.
Tesla are a thing in china for weddings etc now too
For those wondering about Tesla heating.
From another thread.
From another thread.
gangzoom said:
Any heat in an EV comes from the battery, either through the HVAC system, heat seater, or heat generated by the drivetrain. Interms of drivetrain heat, from what I know how the Tesla system works any excess heat is first used to maintain battery temp.
Travelling at 70mph+ in barely above zero temps means lots of cold air around the battery which will cause heat loss, a cold battery is not an efficient one, hence first place any 'excess' heat goes is the battery.
The iPace does have a more efficent HVAC system than a Tesla, using a heat pump, but at close to zero the heat pump in my old Leaf pulled 4KW. Apparently heat seaters full less than 60Wh which is by far the most efficent way to keep the human warm in an EV.
The battery is still the most important part to heat up in an EV in cold weather, even with the heating system off my old Leaf had awful range in the cold - 60 miles absolute max, due to not been able to heat up the battery which means poor discharge efficency.
https://www.teslarati.com/energy-saving-tips-tesla...
Travelling at 70mph+ in barely above zero temps means lots of cold air around the battery which will cause heat loss, a cold battery is not an efficient one, hence first place any 'excess' heat goes is the battery.
The iPace does have a more efficent HVAC system than a Tesla, using a heat pump, but at close to zero the heat pump in my old Leaf pulled 4KW. Apparently heat seaters full less than 60Wh which is by far the most efficent way to keep the human warm in an EV.
The battery is still the most important part to heat up in an EV in cold weather, even with the heating system off my old Leaf had awful range in the cold - 60 miles absolute max, due to not been able to heat up the battery which means poor discharge efficency.
https://www.teslarati.com/energy-saving-tips-tesla...
AstonZagato said:
For those wondering about Tesla heating.
From another thread.
That was helpful and explains a lot!From another thread.
gangzoom said:
Any heat in an EV comes from the battery, either through the HVAC system, heat seater, or heat generated by the drivetrain. Interms of drivetrain heat, from what I know how the Tesla system works any excess heat is first used to maintain battery temp.
Travelling at 70mph+ in barely above zero temps means lots of cold air around the battery which will cause heat loss, a cold battery is not an efficient one, hence first place any 'excess' heat goes is the battery.
The iPace does have a more efficent HVAC system than a Tesla, using a heat pump, but at close to zero the heat pump in my old Leaf pulled 4KW. Apparently heat seaters full less than 60Wh which is by far the most efficent way to keep the human warm in an EV.
The battery is still the most important part to heat up in an EV in cold weather, even with the heating system off my old Leaf had awful range in the cold - 60 miles absolute max, due to not been able to heat up the battery which means poor discharge efficency.
https://www.teslarati.com/energy-saving-tips-tesla...
Travelling at 70mph+ in barely above zero temps means lots of cold air around the battery which will cause heat loss, a cold battery is not an efficient one, hence first place any 'excess' heat goes is the battery.
The iPace does have a more efficent HVAC system than a Tesla, using a heat pump, but at close to zero the heat pump in my old Leaf pulled 4KW. Apparently heat seaters full less than 60Wh which is by far the most efficent way to keep the human warm in an EV.
The battery is still the most important part to heat up in an EV in cold weather, even with the heating system off my old Leaf had awful range in the cold - 60 miles absolute max, due to not been able to heat up the battery which means poor discharge efficency.
https://www.teslarati.com/energy-saving-tips-tesla...
Colleague of mine drives a similar commute, I don't most days on just electric (10kWh Ampera) and charge in work. He's currently waiting for his latest MS and has a 100D as a courtesy car. I frequently see him using 40kWh on the chargers in work! I'm assuming that's for the return journey and he's just making the most of the free charging in work.
Burwood said:
Most wont care. Panel gaps are f
king atrocious.
Nope - tbh most getting deliveries seem to have better pain jobs but that will get fixed. king atrocious.Panel gap consistency looked ok, but the raised edges between panels/hood etc needs sorting.
Only thing that would really bother me in the vid is the roof glass alignment.
I can't really find an acceptable excuse for them to be pushing them out the door with such irregular gaps. At least balance them all out for heavens sake - would look so much better.
Paint damage - could have happened anywhere along the way from paint booth to customers front door. Easily fixed with better control of the delivery chain. Shame the punter has to put up with it and the hassle of sorting it out though.
Paint defect - never should have left the paint shop.
(For context, I don't own a Tesla, although I'd like an S. I admire much of what Mr Musk has achieved, but not everything about the man or how he goes about his work. I have no axe to grind either pro EV or anti. I have no financial interest in Tesla. This is purely my opinion based upon watching that video - a sample size of 1, with a pretty sympathetic & tolerant customer. If it had been my car, I'd have rejected it on the spot and never taken delivery. I'd also be a tad suspicious that it might already have been rejected once by someone else)
Flame away, you know it's the PH way
Paint damage - could have happened anywhere along the way from paint booth to customers front door. Easily fixed with better control of the delivery chain. Shame the punter has to put up with it and the hassle of sorting it out though.
Paint defect - never should have left the paint shop.
(For context, I don't own a Tesla, although I'd like an S. I admire much of what Mr Musk has achieved, but not everything about the man or how he goes about his work. I have no axe to grind either pro EV or anti. I have no financial interest in Tesla. This is purely my opinion based upon watching that video - a sample size of 1, with a pretty sympathetic & tolerant customer. If it had been my car, I'd have rejected it on the spot and never taken delivery. I'd also be a tad suspicious that it might already have been rejected once by someone else)
Flame away, you know it's the PH way
Chris-S said:
I can't really find an acceptable excuse for them to be pushing them out the door with such irregular gaps. At least balance them all out for heavens sake - would look so much better.
Paint damage - could have happened anywhere along the way from paint booth to customers front door. Easily fixed with better control of the delivery chain. Shame the punter has to put up with it and the hassle of sorting it out though.
Paint defect - never should have left the paint shop.
(For context, I don't own a Tesla, although I'd like an S. I admire much of what Mr Musk has achieved, but not everything about the man or how he goes about his work. I have no axe to grind either pro EV or anti. I have no financial interest in Tesla. This is purely my opinion based upon watching that video - a sample size of 1, with a pretty sympathetic & tolerant customer. If it had been my car, I'd have rejected it on the spot and never taken delivery. I'd also be a tad suspicious that it might already have been rejected once by someone else)
Flame away, you know it's the PH way
You are clearly an Elon Musk, Tesla and EV hater. Stop being a dinasour and admit your petrol V8 is destined for scrap soon.Paint damage - could have happened anywhere along the way from paint booth to customers front door. Easily fixed with better control of the delivery chain. Shame the punter has to put up with it and the hassle of sorting it out though.
Paint defect - never should have left the paint shop.
(For context, I don't own a Tesla, although I'd like an S. I admire much of what Mr Musk has achieved, but not everything about the man or how he goes about his work. I have no axe to grind either pro EV or anti. I have no financial interest in Tesla. This is purely my opinion based upon watching that video - a sample size of 1, with a pretty sympathetic & tolerant customer. If it had been my car, I'd have rejected it on the spot and never taken delivery. I'd also be a tad suspicious that it might already have been rejected once by someone else)
Flame away, you know it's the PH way
Will that do?
I am fascinated that people are bothered about a 1mm difference, like... do you guys know how small 1mm is? There is no way you can see that from 5ft away. I'd not be surprised if just opening and closing the door could move it more than 1mm, or a hot day.
I'd be much more concerned with the paint issues.
I'd be much more concerned with the paint issues.
hyphen said:
Will the panel gaps and quality issue have other side effects?
So with these irregular and unintended gaps. Will the door seals be working as intended? Or will rain get or noisier or colder.
The panels just attach to the underlying bodyshell, and should not affect the structure, noise or watertightness. No car has absolutely perfect alignment.So with these irregular and unintended gaps. Will the door seals be working as intended? Or will rain get or noisier or colder.
The odd millimetre here and there isn't a big deal. However, the Model-S I looked at in the showroom earlier this year had a gap you could insert a finger into along the tailgate. It just looks naff, particularly on a seventy grand car. It's not the 1970s anymore.
As others have said the panel gaps on that model-3 look fine to me. Not perfect but perfectly adequate. The roof glass alignment and panel height differences look rubbish, though.
The paint... well well if they're all like that it's definitely a problem but to be fair I've seen a 3-series with worse paint from the factory than that.
The paint... well well if they're all like that it's definitely a problem but to be fair I've seen a 3-series with worse paint from the factory than that.
jjwilde said:
I am fascinated that people are bothered about a 1mm difference, like... do you guys know how small 1mm is? There is no way you can see that from 5ft away. I'd not be surprised if just opening and closing the door could move it more than 1mm, or a hot day.
I'd be much more concerned with the paint issues.
You're probably right, I'd be much more concerned with the paint issues.
The difference between a 10 and 11mm panel gap is hardly noticeable.
The panel gaps thing just means more people look even closer at Tesla's gaps.
The Model 3 I rented in the U.S. had a couple of minor issues in that respect. If I hadn't have spent a good 15 minutes looking at every inch of the car I probably wouldn't have spotted any of them and I still missed the glass roof misalignment until the owner pointed it out to me.
It's an American car at the end of the day. I might be pissed off if I spent £100k on a Model X and the panels were all wonky but if I end up spending £40k on a 3 and there's a slight misalignment on one of the panels I doubt I'll reject the car over it or come on here moaning.
I'll just enjoy driving it instead.
The Model 3 I rented in the U.S. had a couple of minor issues in that respect. If I hadn't have spent a good 15 minutes looking at every inch of the car I probably wouldn't have spotted any of them and I still missed the glass roof misalignment until the owner pointed it out to me.
It's an American car at the end of the day. I might be pissed off if I spent £100k on a Model X and the panels were all wonky but if I end up spending £40k on a 3 and there's a slight misalignment on one of the panels I doubt I'll reject the car over it or come on here moaning.
I'll just enjoy driving it instead.
Meanwhile Tesla quietly update the headlights on the 3 to get a good rating (up from acceptable)
https://electrek.co/2018/12/27/tesla-model-3-heagl...
No waiting for the model refresh in 2-3 year etc.
https://electrek.co/2018/12/27/tesla-model-3-heagl...
No waiting for the model refresh in 2-3 year etc.
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