Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
fesuvious said:
To the chap above suggested a 3 hour drive needs a couple of stops;
I'm in a series of endurance races this year, they're 2 and 3 hours long. I'm the only driver.
Should I be planning comfort stops of @15minutes?
How's about HGV drivers?
No, it's nonsense. Plenty of people will happily hop in a car or van and do 2, 3 or 4 hours, safely, and happily.
That EV's can't do it is a flaw with EV's, not the many thousands of drivers currently on the roads.
I do love the idea, but, turning a six hour round trip into a 7-8 hour round trip is a backwards step.
Using an EV for the 20-30minute ride each way to work in traffic is a darn good idea.
If you are talking about me, then I think you misunderstood. The Tesla will happily do 250 miles. That is about as far as I'd happily drive in one session. In fact, I'd probably stop and get a coffee.I'm in a series of endurance races this year, they're 2 and 3 hours long. I'm the only driver.
Should I be planning comfort stops of @15minutes?
How's about HGV drivers?
No, it's nonsense. Plenty of people will happily hop in a car or van and do 2, 3 or 4 hours, safely, and happily.
That EV's can't do it is a flaw with EV's, not the many thousands of drivers currently on the roads.
I do love the idea, but, turning a six hour round trip into a 7-8 hour round trip is a backwards step.
Using an EV for the 20-30minute ride each way to work in traffic is a darn good idea.
The charging twice is a specific thing. Going to my-in-laws. They don't have a charging point - only a 3 pin plug. They are 200 miles away. So the range to get me there is fine - no need to stop at all. But I now haven't got enough range to get back. And the charging while I'm there isn't going to give me that range. So I'd need to top up once on the way up and probably on the way back too. So rather than no coffee stops, I'd have one each way, each adding 15 minutes to my journey. I might have to make that stop anyway in an ICE car (get petrol, loo break, etc.) However, if I need to use the car a lot when I'm there, then it would be prudent to charge it close by my in-laws. So now I am adding 30 mins to a 3:30 min journey. Traffic can do worse than that. I would probably arrive slightly less frazzled too.
Not sure why you'd compare that to endurance racing. And you are taking a break after three hours.
I'd love a Tesla, and for 95% of the time range and charging wouldn't be an issue.
But it couldn't be the only car, a couple of times a year we travel down to Europe, most recently Germany.
We did this trip on Monday in an Audi S3.
Left Germany at 8:15am UK time - fuel tank 2/3 rd full.
Cruised down Autobahn for 30 miles to Strasbourg, hitting 200+ KPH most of the way.
Continued through Strasbourg and onto French motorway.
Cruise at 135 KPH the whole way.
Stop after 250 miles for fuel, ten minutes to fill up and grab a sandwich.
Continue to Calais another 180 miles. Arrived early for Eurotunnel, ushered straight onto early train - after twenty minute security and customs queue. 35 minute rest in the train ready for journey home.
Leave Folkestone onto M20, continue home via M25 / M3 / M4 - another 150 miles.
Arrived back 6pm, hardly any fuel left but didn't have to stop.
So 580 Miles in 10 hours include around 60 minutes tunnel crossing and security.
According to Tesla journey calculator ( assuming 75D as 100D price difference is 20K )
Metz 30 minute charge
Reims 25 minute charge
Aire d'Urvillers 45 minute charge
Calais 20 minute charge
Maidstone 40 minute charge
So that is 2hr 40 minutes for charging versus 10 minutes for fuel.
We would have got back at 8:30, assuming we could do similar speeds - don't actually know what speed the planner assumes but the range calculator only goes up to 70 MPH - at 80 there could be more charging.
Oh, and the Audi cost 25K less.
This obviously isn't a typical journey, but I don't see that spending 65K on a Model S as a viable option at the moment.
But it couldn't be the only car, a couple of times a year we travel down to Europe, most recently Germany.
We did this trip on Monday in an Audi S3.
Left Germany at 8:15am UK time - fuel tank 2/3 rd full.
Cruised down Autobahn for 30 miles to Strasbourg, hitting 200+ KPH most of the way.
Continued through Strasbourg and onto French motorway.
Cruise at 135 KPH the whole way.
Stop after 250 miles for fuel, ten minutes to fill up and grab a sandwich.
Continue to Calais another 180 miles. Arrived early for Eurotunnel, ushered straight onto early train - after twenty minute security and customs queue. 35 minute rest in the train ready for journey home.
Leave Folkestone onto M20, continue home via M25 / M3 / M4 - another 150 miles.
Arrived back 6pm, hardly any fuel left but didn't have to stop.
So 580 Miles in 10 hours include around 60 minutes tunnel crossing and security.
According to Tesla journey calculator ( assuming 75D as 100D price difference is 20K )
Metz 30 minute charge
Reims 25 minute charge
Aire d'Urvillers 45 minute charge
Calais 20 minute charge
Maidstone 40 minute charge
So that is 2hr 40 minutes for charging versus 10 minutes for fuel.
We would have got back at 8:30, assuming we could do similar speeds - don't actually know what speed the planner assumes but the range calculator only goes up to 70 MPH - at 80 there could be more charging.
Oh, and the Audi cost 25K less.
This obviously isn't a typical journey, but I don't see that spending 65K on a Model S as a viable option at the moment.
Edited by cay on Wednesday 4th April 11:59
cay said:
So that is 2hr 40 minutes for charging versus 10 minutes for fuel.
We would have got back at 8:30, assuming we could do similar speeds - don't actually know what speed the planner assumes but the range calculator only goes up to 70 MPH - at 80 there could be more charging.
Oh, and the Audi cost 25K less.
This obviously isn't a typical journey, but I don't see that spending 65K on a Model S as a viable option at the moment.
You're right, that journey in an ICE is always going to be quicker than an EV, well "always" until battery tech improves, but even then it's never going to match an ICE. I haven't done it myself but many Tesla owners have, including lots who used to travel in their ICE cars. Their feedback tends to be that the journey becomes much more relaxing and part of the experience, rather than a blast to get to the end destination asap.We would have got back at 8:30, assuming we could do similar speeds - don't actually know what speed the planner assumes but the range calculator only goes up to 70 MPH - at 80 there could be more charging.
Oh, and the Audi cost 25K less.
This obviously isn't a typical journey, but I don't see that spending 65K on a Model S as a viable option at the moment.
Edited by cay on Wednesday 4th April 11:59
I don't know what the cost in fuel was, but using the Superchargers would be free (providing you used a referral code when ordering the car). Every little helps towards that £25k
I'm quite tempted to do a road trip in the Tesla just to see what it's like. There is a trip to the Dordogne this summer. However, a flight to Brive gets us there, door to door, in four hours (versus 16 hours in the Telsa or 14h in a car...).
So, car slower than than a 'plane shocker.
So, car slower than than a 'plane shocker.
Seeing tweets about a fire at the Tesla factory temporarily suspending production earlier this week
Eg https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/9819897128639...
Eg https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/9819897128639...
RobDickinson said:
Tesla Q1 2018 results
"Given the progress made thus far and upcoming actions for further capacity improvement, we expect that the Model 3 production rate will climb rapidly through Q2. Tesla continues to target a production rate of approximately 5,000 units per week in about three months, laying the groundwork for Q3 to have the long-sought ideal combination of high volume, good gross margin and strong positive operating cash flow. As a result, Tesla does not require an equity or debt raise this year, apart from standard credit lines."
https://electrek.co/2018/04/03/tesla-record-produc...
That was their Q1 production numbers, the Q1 earnings call hasn't happened yet."Given the progress made thus far and upcoming actions for further capacity improvement, we expect that the Model 3 production rate will climb rapidly through Q2. Tesla continues to target a production rate of approximately 5,000 units per week in about three months, laying the groundwork for Q3 to have the long-sought ideal combination of high volume, good gross margin and strong positive operating cash flow. As a result, Tesla does not require an equity or debt raise this year, apart from standard credit lines."
https://electrek.co/2018/04/03/tesla-record-produc...
DJP31 said:
You're right, that journey in an ICE is always going to be quicker than an EV, well "always" until battery tech improves, but even then it's never going to match an ICE. I haven't done it myself but many Tesla owners have, including lots who used to travel in their ICE cars. Their feedback tends to be that the journey becomes much more relaxing and part of the experience, rather than a blast to get to the end destination asap.
I go to Geneva and Schladming often in mine and so does my father. I can tell you that it makes me annoyed that I am limited on speed and route by my Tesla plus adds around 4-6 hours to my journey. Free is nice though but ultimately we both used to love our European road trips our Teslas have made them a chore and money saving exercise. My dad said f
k it and took his Bentley this month. Its the reason that they are both going soon.
Should also say that we aren't against we will keep an eye on the network and go back once it has developed more I think 2025 most likely.
ntiz said:
I go to Geneva and Schladming often in mine and so does my father. I can tell you that it makes me annoyed that I am limited on speed and route by my Tesla plus adds around 4-6 hours to my journey. Free is nice though but ultimately we both used to love our European road trips our Teslas have made them a chore and money saving exercise. My dad said fk it and took his Bentley this month.
Its the reason that they are both going soon.
Should also say that we aren't against we will keep an eye on the network and go back once it has developed more I think 2025 most likely.
You should get the new roadster, 600miles range enough?k it and took his Bentley this month. Its the reason that they are both going soon.
Should also say that we aren't against we will keep an eye on the network and go back once it has developed more I think 2025 most likely.
jjwilde said:
ntiz said:
I go to Geneva and Schladming often in mine and so does my father. I can tell you that it makes me annoyed that I am limited on speed and route by my Tesla plus adds around 4-6 hours to my journey. Free is nice though but ultimately we both used to love our European road trips our Teslas have made them a chore and money saving exercise. My dad said fk it and took his Bentley this month.
Its the reason that they are both going soon.
Should also say that we aren't against we will keep an eye on the network and go back once it has developed more I think 2025 most likely.
You should get the new roadster, 600miles range enough?k it and took his Bentley this month. Its the reason that they are both going soon.
Should also say that we aren't against we will keep an eye on the network and go back once it has developed more I think 2025 most likely.
Indeed but I think there is going to be a good choice by then. Also with VAG plus a few others investing big in a network at the moment by 2025 I think we will 15 min charging up to say 300 mile range. Chargers by then I’m hoping will be extremely wide spread so no strange routes or off limits areas.
The futures bright for EV not sure for Tesla time will tell but they definetly got the ball rolling properly. Plus some times I am quite down about my Tesla usually because it has generally disappointed. But it is easy to forget this is the first go at this sort of thing. Give it 100 years of development like the combustion engine and see how it is going.
I would be interested in the roadster but at 200k it is a lot of money. Usually if I spend that much it would be on something older. If it was 150k I would be more interested.
The futures bright for EV not sure for Tesla time will tell but they definetly got the ball rolling properly. Plus some times I am quite down about my Tesla usually because it has generally disappointed. But it is easy to forget this is the first go at this sort of thing. Give it 100 years of development like the combustion engine and see how it is going.
I would be interested in the roadster but at 200k it is a lot of money. Usually if I spend that much it would be on something older. If it was 150k I would be more interested.
Elon is pleased that Tesla Q1 results beat expectations
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/99178602335186...
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/99178602335186...
A couple of bits from the latest IR letter that will give hope to shareholders
"...Just before taking this latest downtime, we produced 2,270 Model 3 and 2,024 Model S and Model X vehicles in the prior seven days, which was a new record for us. Furthermore, in the just over two weeks between the beginning of April and the planned downtime, we had produced 4,750 Model 3
vehicles, which was already about half the production of the entire prior quarter."
"Demand for our flagship Model S and Model X vehicles remains very strong. After all-time record orders in Q3 and Q4 2017, we had our highest ever Q1 for orders. With demand exceeding supply, we are making considerable progress with margin improvement. In Q1, we produced 24,728 Model S and X and 9,766 Model 3 vehicles, and delivered 21,815 Model S and Model X vehicles and 8,182 Model 3 vehicles, totaling 29,997 deliveries.
Short-term operational and logistical issues led to an increase in the number of Model S and Model X vehicles in transit to customers at the end of Q1.
Model 3 net reservations, including configured orders that had not yet been delivered, continued to exceed 450,000 at the end of Q1 even though fewer than 20 stores worldwide had Model 3 on display. e are planning to deploy significantly more Model 3 vehicles in our stores in Q2 this year."
Musk states that he continues to target Model 3 production volumes of 5k per week in about 2 months. If Tesla does that, I expect funding becomes much less of an issue than if it doesn't.
"...Just before taking this latest downtime, we produced 2,270 Model 3 and 2,024 Model S and Model X vehicles in the prior seven days, which was a new record for us. Furthermore, in the just over two weeks between the beginning of April and the planned downtime, we had produced 4,750 Model 3
vehicles, which was already about half the production of the entire prior quarter."
"Demand for our flagship Model S and Model X vehicles remains very strong. After all-time record orders in Q3 and Q4 2017, we had our highest ever Q1 for orders. With demand exceeding supply, we are making considerable progress with margin improvement. In Q1, we produced 24,728 Model S and X and 9,766 Model 3 vehicles, and delivered 21,815 Model S and Model X vehicles and 8,182 Model 3 vehicles, totaling 29,997 deliveries.
Short-term operational and logistical issues led to an increase in the number of Model S and Model X vehicles in transit to customers at the end of Q1.
Model 3 net reservations, including configured orders that had not yet been delivered, continued to exceed 450,000 at the end of Q1 even though fewer than 20 stores worldwide had Model 3 on display. e are planning to deploy significantly more Model 3 vehicles in our stores in Q2 this year."
Musk states that he continues to target Model 3 production volumes of 5k per week in about 2 months. If Tesla does that, I expect funding becomes much less of an issue than if it doesn't.
JPJPJP said:
A couple of bits from the latest IR letter that will give hope to shareholders...
I would be worried that this was forced good news, that they had not done these through normal operations but by using effort and cash significantly above normal to give the air of hope.The hopeful bit appears to be this:
Tesla said:
it would cut capital spending this year to less than $3bn as it focuses on "near-term needs".
i.e. stop planning its truck, roadsters and have a general mentality to stop spending time, money and resources on anything other than what is needed to survive the next two years.Edited by hyphen on Thursday 3rd May 08:56
JPJPJP said:
Musk states that he continues to target Model 3 production volumes of 5k per week in about 2 months. If Tesla does that, I expect funding becomes much less of an issue than if it doesn't.
The odd thing about this statement is that 3 weeks ago he justified the factory shutdown so they could hit 6k cars a week by the end of June. He makes numbers up as he goes along.He’s a man under pressure and more than ever I feel Tesla need a Chairman who’s not from the Musk family to turn the tide on a few basics. It’s boring to sort out production, supply chain, customer services, quality control etc, but they’re probably at a point where those things will increasingly bite them. Let Musk spout all he wants on future stuff, but a ponzi scheme MS is bailed by MX promises, MX is bailed by M3 reservations, M3 prod hell is being bailed by Roadster and Semi deposits and the soon to be released MY helping fudge the long term low margin on the M3, is going to run out at some point.
Read the owners forums and you see increasing dissatisfaction, a “I love the car but wish Tesla would sort themselves out” mindset. You can’t get a 12v battery (ie the relatively normal commodity car battery) for a Tesla at the moment, and they are sadly a regular warranty fail item. It bewilderingly inept.
Heres Johnny said:
The odd thing about this statement is that 3 weeks ago he justified the factory shutdown so they could hit 6k cars a week by the end of June. He makes numbers up as he goes along.
He’s a man under pressure and more than ever I feel Tesla need a Chairman who’s not from the Musk family to turn the tide on a few basics. It’s boring to sort out production, supply chain, customer services, quality control etc, but they’re probably at a point where those things will increasingly bite them. Let Musk spout all he wants on future stuff, but a ponzi scheme MS is bailed by MX promises, MX is bailed by M3 reservations, M3 prod hell is being bailed by Roadster and Semi deposits and the soon to be released MY helping fudge the long term low margin on the M3, is going to run out at some point.
Read the owners forums and you see increasing dissatisfaction, a “I love the car but wish Tesla would sort themselves out” mindset. You can’t get a 12v battery (ie the relatively normal commodity car battery) for a Tesla at the moment, and they are sadly a regular warranty fail item. It bewilderingly inept.
Musk is an ideas man , he is great at that . I heard he was living and sleeping in the factory so he can monitor the production line "so he can solve problems in real time" that's not the actions of an efficient CEO. He’s a man under pressure and more than ever I feel Tesla need a Chairman who’s not from the Musk family to turn the tide on a few basics. It’s boring to sort out production, supply chain, customer services, quality control etc, but they’re probably at a point where those things will increasingly bite them. Let Musk spout all he wants on future stuff, but a ponzi scheme MS is bailed by MX promises, MX is bailed by M3 reservations, M3 prod hell is being bailed by Roadster and Semi deposits and the soon to be released MY helping fudge the long term low margin on the M3, is going to run out at some point.
Read the owners forums and you see increasing dissatisfaction, a “I love the car but wish Tesla would sort themselves out” mindset. You can’t get a 12v battery (ie the relatively normal commodity car battery) for a Tesla at the moment, and they are sadly a regular warranty fail item. It bewilderingly inept.
liner33 said:
Musk is an ideas man , he is great at that . I heard he was living and sleeping in the factory so he can monitor the production line "so he can solve problems in real time" that's not the actions of an efficient CEO.
Good ideas though, the most autonomous car on the market, the fastest 0-60, rockets into space.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff