Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
Burwood said:
It's an X competitor and efficiency, range no difference. The Merc is an 80KW battery. The X is what? 75kw? The Merc achieved MORE range than the 75KW Tesla. A bit more no doubt due to the battery size but efficiency clearly the same or very close.
The X though is a 6/7 seater and more Q7/Full fat RR size than the Merc. We use the extra seats in the X every other weekend, its the difference between taking one car versus 2 cars out when going out/about with family/friends.For pure efficiency Tesla is still far ahead, I hit 3.1 miler per kWh last weekend coming back from London. Clearly the massive 20 miles of 50mph road works on the M1 helped, but I would be amazed if the Merc could return the same values on the same run at the same overall speed despite been smaller.
egomeister said:
Because it will compound their profit 'issues'?
I think that is the real question only Tesla knows.Clearly at one point selling the S for sub £50k and X for sub £70k was fine, infact the books didn't even look that bad back in early 2017.
The quest to produce the Model 3 for a target price of $35k is what may actually kill Tesla off.
Battery prices clearly aren't falling as quickly as expected, Model 3 is still a massive gamble for Tesla, but as long as they get money than it'll keep on going.
gangzoom said:
Burwood said:
It's an X competitor and efficiency, range no difference. The Merc is an 80KW battery. The X is what? 75kw? The Merc achieved MORE range than the 75KW Tesla. A bit more no doubt due to the battery size but efficiency clearly the same or very close.
The X though is a 6/7 seater and more Q7/Full fat RR size than the Merc. We use the extra seats in the X every other weekend, its the difference between taking one car versus 2 cars out when going out/about with family/friends.For pure efficiency Tesla is still far ahead, I hit 3.1 miler per kWh last weekend coming back from London. Clearly the massive 20 miles of 50mph road works on the M1 helped, but I would be amazed if the Merc could return the same values on the same run at the same overall speed despite been smaller.
[Img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32888818297_420795d845_z_d.jpg[/thumb]
At the most efficient speed it may interest you to know that the EQC as tested by Autogfel achieved 14kw/100 km which i make to be 4.28m/kw. When combined drag races and fast cruising is was 23kw per or 2.6. I don't think those are inefficient figures at all. I think it matches the X which is what the guy was saying in fact 3.1 was the real world number based on mixed driving.
Burwood said:
OT and perhaps AstonZ can answer this. watergate Bay have a couple of Tesla charging points. I didn't realise other EVs can use them. How does that work? Is the Hotel simply paying for the electricity and does Tesla install universals if requested?
Typically Tesla will supply one or more chargers that are configured only for Teslas to use. Alongside side these will be another one, or more, which any EV can charge from. They are differentiated by the signage - red for Tesla and white for universal.The power depends on what’s available, typically 7kW but can be higher, particularly if 3 phase is available.
The hotel/restaurant is responsible for the installation and running costs, Tesla just supply the units, which if memory serves retail at about £400. Generally speaking the hotel/restaurant makes the charger freely available to customers.
DJP31 said:
Burwood said:
OT and perhaps AstonZ can answer this. watergate Bay have a couple of Tesla charging points. I didn't realise other EVs can use them. How does that work? Is the Hotel simply paying for the electricity and does Tesla install universals if requested?
Typically Tesla will supply one or more chargers that are configured only for Teslas to use. Alongside side these will be another one, or more, which any EV can charge from. They are differentiated by the signage - red for Tesla and white for universal.The power depends on what’s available, typically 7kW but can be higher, particularly if 3 phase is available.
The hotel/restaurant is responsible for the installation and running costs, Tesla just supply the units, which if memory serves retail at about £400. Generally speaking the hotel/restaurant makes the charger freely available to customers.
So Musk has emailed staff saying the Tesla CFO is going to personally review all staff expense claims and Musk himself is going to review 1 on 10 expense claims.
Whether he actually does that or not, that sounds like they are going into emergency cash-saving measures.
Share price is at $211 with talk of there being no hard support unless it reaches $185.
Whether he actually does that or not, that sounds like they are going into emergency cash-saving measures.
Share price is at $211 with talk of there being no hard support unless it reaches $185.
RobDickinson said:
They also bought maxwell but you hear f
k all about that in the media.
TBH I'm a bit skeptical about the Maxwell acquisition.k all about that in the media.If it really had the potential to create a step change in battery performance, its value would have been much, much higher.
If on the other hand it has some interesting, but not revolutionary, tech why not just sign a licensing agreement so you pay to use it. Might cost you more in the long run, but at least that way you only pay for what you know works.
The email is in here
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/05/17/elon-musk-call...
10 months is quite a long time in Tesla / musk terms
But when the co is burning 700m a quarter and the shares are down a whack since the recent money raise, it can still pass quickly
Whether maxwell will play a big part anytime is yet to be seen. There is some good tech in there, but I’m not sure at what stage of development / commercialisation it is at yet
I saw on the millwardbrown brand rank that Tesla brand value was up 60% in 2018.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/05/17/elon-musk-call...
10 months is quite a long time in Tesla / musk terms
But when the co is burning 700m a quarter and the shares are down a whack since the recent money raise, it can still pass quickly
Whether maxwell will play a big part anytime is yet to be seen. There is some good tech in there, but I’m not sure at what stage of development / commercialisation it is at yet
I saw on the millwardbrown brand rank that Tesla brand value was up 60% in 2018.
But anyhow regardless all the main news sites and usual suspects have plenty on the problems of the maxwell deal, huge stories on a handful of shareholders causing trouble but absolutely nothing on the completion of the deal.
Perhaps Tesla should have set fire to a car outside when signing or something.
Perhaps Tesla should have set fire to a car outside when signing or something.
Electrek did this piece
https://electrek.co/2019/05/16/tesla-completes-max...
It is surely understandable that a $235m deal by a company that burns that much cash in a month of normal business is not viewed by the mainstream media as being the top news story
Given its track record of acquisitions - solar city anyone - the evidence of Tesla being a great acquirer is just not there yet
If maxwell technology is so groundbreaking then, the theory goes, there would have been, at least, noises of other interested parties considering a bid / deal. $235m in the future of batteries is, frankly, washers.
That means it either turns out to be a great piece of business by Tesla, or just noise.
Let’s see
https://electrek.co/2019/05/16/tesla-completes-max...
It is surely understandable that a $235m deal by a company that burns that much cash in a month of normal business is not viewed by the mainstream media as being the top news story
Given its track record of acquisitions - solar city anyone - the evidence of Tesla being a great acquirer is just not there yet
If maxwell technology is so groundbreaking then, the theory goes, there would have been, at least, noises of other interested parties considering a bid / deal. $235m in the future of batteries is, frankly, washers.
That means it either turns out to be a great piece of business by Tesla, or just noise.
Let’s see
The article says they gave them company stock, JP. So no cash burn 
Several companies claim a pathway to 400 watts per kg. I dont care who wins. The consumer will. They will get there. I like to use the nand flash analogy. Remember when a CF card the size of an after dinner mint held 16mb. Now a micro so can hold 1TB. Not the same physics but they’ll get to wherever they have to be in time. SS batteries next big thing.
Several companies claim a pathway to 400 watts per kg. I dont care who wins. The consumer will. They will get there. I like to use the nand flash analogy. Remember when a CF card the size of an after dinner mint held 16mb. Now a micro so can hold 1TB. Not the same physics but they’ll get to wherever they have to be in time. SS batteries next big thing.
Edited by Burwood on Saturday 18th May 08:43
Maxwell would only be worthwhile to someone making a lot of batteries.
If it saves 20% it'll save tesla $1bn or so a year.
It should give them 2000 cycles to 90% which works out to 600,000miles, so thats the million miles Elon was talking about ( at ~> 80% soh) - this is something no other manufacturer cares about really.
If it saves 20% it'll save tesla $1bn or so a year.
It should give them 2000 cycles to 90% which works out to 600,000miles, so thats the million miles Elon was talking about ( at ~> 80% soh) - this is something no other manufacturer cares about really.
RobDickinson said:
Maxwell would only be worthwhile to someone making a lot of batteries.
If it saves 20% it'll save tesla $1bn or so a year.
It should give them 2000 cycles to 90% which works out to 600,000miles, so thats the million miles Elon was talking about ( at ~> 80% soh) - this is something no other manufacturer cares about really.
Not knocking Tesla but this acquisition will have no benefit for years. It doesn't just magically appear. I would also wager that if the tech was that revolutionary there would have been other bidders. 200M is peanuts in this market. Are LG Chem not big producers. The Chinese?If it saves 20% it'll save tesla $1bn or so a year.
It should give them 2000 cycles to 90% which works out to 600,000miles, so thats the million miles Elon was talking about ( at ~> 80% soh) - this is something no other manufacturer cares about really.
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