Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
Mr2Mike said:
Good stuff. Out of Ready Salted and Cheese and Onion I always go for Cheese and Onion.
Where do you stand on not delivering against massive debt vs fiscal competence?
Err....Where do you stand on not delivering against massive debt vs fiscal competence?
Forbes said:
That will surprise GM shareholders who have suffered from a seemingly unstoppable tsunami of red-ink. Opel-Vauxhall has lost almost $20 billion this century, while constantly promising to return to the black next year. This was always justified by excuses like GM needs the small car expertise and technology edge that German-based Opel provided.
How successful would you rate GM Europe?Blib said:
I don't have a horse in this race. But, inferring it's ok for Tesla to lose billions because GM are is a bit "creative".
I'm not so much trying to say it's okay, I'm trying to understand why we're applying a different standard to Tesla than we do to the rest of the car industry. GM Europe are not alone.Evanivitch said:
Blib said:
I don't have a horse in this race. But, inferring it's ok for Tesla to lose billions because GM are is a bit "creative".
I'm not so much trying to say it's okay, I'm trying to understand why we're applying a different standard to Tesla than we do to the rest of the car industry. GM Europe are not alone.Blib said:
Evanivitch said:
Blib said:
I don't have a horse in this race. But, inferring it's ok for Tesla to lose billions because GM are is a bit "creative".
I'm not so much trying to say it's okay, I'm trying to understand why we're applying a different standard to Tesla than we do to the rest of the car industry. GM Europe are not alone.GM Europe hasnt made a profit since 1999, and since then has losses of $20Bn in 17 years.
Evanivitch said:
Blib said:
Evanivitch said:
Blib said:
I don't have a horse in this race. But, inferring it's ok for Tesla to lose billions because GM are is a bit "creative".
I'm not so much trying to say it's okay, I'm trying to understand why we're applying a different standard to Tesla than we do to the rest of the car industry. GM Europe are not alone.GM Europe hasnt made a profit since 1999, and since then has losses of $20Bn in 17 years.
That's all, I've nothing against them. Indeed I 'nothing' them. It's just in business "Jam tomorrow" can only take one so far.
LarsG said:
Tesla has become a cult and and Musk has many followers. This will only continue until the other major manufacturers start putting out cars that match or exceed the Tesla specs. 3-5 years probably.
The first bit is pretty undeniable but the second bit completely ignores how humans work, it has been proven time and time again that people buy what they want and reverse justify it. A better product has very little to do with success.Apple haven't made the best phone in 5 years but people want an Iphone not the best phone.
You are posting what you would like to happen as likely to happen.
Edited by The Vambo on Sunday 27th May 11:59
Blib said:
I suppose the point I'm struggling to make is that GM and all of the other manufacturers have at times made a profit, while Tesla wouldn't know a profit if it saw one.
That's all, I've nothing against them. Indeed I 'nothing' them. It's just in business "Jam tomorrow" can only take one so far.
And to that extent I agree. Bit can you also say that GM Europe's performance is justified because they made a profit 18 years ago?That's all, I've nothing against them. Indeed I 'nothing' them. It's just in business "Jam tomorrow" can only take one so far.
Blib said:
I don't have a horse in this race. But, inferring it's ok for Tesla to lose billions because GM are is a bit "creative".
A bit more analogous to Amazon then? Losses for the first five years and very little profit for the next five, I remember these exact conversations happening with Amazon, people genuinely predicted they would fold or be bought by Wallmart or Sears.Seems so short sighted in hindsight...
More Autopilot news
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/25/tesla_auto...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/25/tesla_auto...
elreg said:
Remember that $5,000 you spent on Tesla's Autopilot and then sued when it didn't deliver? We have good news...
You get $20
You get $20
Evanivitch said:
Heres Johnny said:
The Chinese have failed to take over the automotive world up to now, not sure why you think EVs will be different.
China has been very good at copying things in the last but you can't export something that has patent violations.However, EV tech is a new dawn so there's less of a patent minefield to negotiate and they're on a more even pegging to the rest of the global industry.
That said, I don't believe they will dominate the market (their domestic market is very different to the global markets they would export to. Just use American exports as an example) and it certainly won't affect the residual value of Tesla.
To say you didn't buy a Tesla because it might depreciate is hilarious when we know big BMWs and the such depreciate like bricks in water.
And when did I say i didn't buy because it might depreciate? I said the price might plummet - buying an 80k car, expecting to put 30k miles on it a year and if new tech and better cars had come along it would have been worth next to nothing, possible maybe only 20k or less if the tech had become obsolete (thats what plummet means). If I'd looked at a BMW you'd but with a big discount and its pretty predictable what the fall would be.
Evanivitch said:
Heres Johnny said:
Nobody is going to buy a car from china until they learn design.
They're already doing it. Exporting cars, planes and electronics.Nobody is going to buy a Chinese car until they learn design.
They make plenty of stuff for other people but design virtually nothing. Even Tesla are looking to start production in China
The Vambo said:
The first bit is pretty undeniable but the second bit completely ignores how humans work, it has been proven time and time again that people buy what they want and reverse justify it. A better product has very little to do with success.
Apple haven't made the best phone in 5 years but people want an Iphone not the best phone.
You are posting what you would like to happen as likely to happen.
Dont worry someone will be along some to make an amazing EV from off the shelf Hitachi battery cells, the electronics is easy to sort out, and that'll show Tesla Apple haven't made the best phone in 5 years but people want an Iphone not the best phone.
You are posting what you would like to happen as likely to happen.
Edited by The Vambo on Sunday 27th May 11:59
.Evanivitch said:
Heres Johnny said:
Pedant
Nobody is going to buy a Chinese car until they learn design.
They make plenty of stuff for other people but design virtually nothing. Even Tesla are looking to start production in China
BYD E6, Comac C919...Nobody is going to buy a Chinese car until they learn design.
They make plenty of stuff for other people but design virtually nothing. Even Tesla are looking to start production in China
Autopilot Tesla hits parked police car...
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/29/tesla-in-autopilot...
TSLA up 1.6%
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/29/tesla-in-autopilot...
TSLA up 1.6%
I would love a Model 3 but the whole situation is getting ridiculous.
International launch delayed until next year, right hand drive could be 'mid' next year. So another year until they start satisfying UK orders, then the backlog to clear.
Musk has also announced the performance version will be shipped before normal AWD and the mythical $35K version as they need to make profit before shipping lower cost versions.
So the $35K 'affordable' EV was just a clever lie to get a load of deposits.
I wonder how many will cancel when they discover it is £50K, and does Tesla have the money to pay everyone back?
International launch delayed until next year, right hand drive could be 'mid' next year. So another year until they start satisfying UK orders, then the backlog to clear.
Musk has also announced the performance version will be shipped before normal AWD and the mythical $35K version as they need to make profit before shipping lower cost versions.
So the $35K 'affordable' EV was just a clever lie to get a load of deposits.
I wonder how many will cancel when they discover it is £50K, and does Tesla have the money to pay everyone back?
jjwilde said:
It will be £39k for UK tax reasons for a decent spec, but it's a good car for the money with crazy low, even free, running costs.
You sure? I’d be surprised if it’s that low, unless there’s a real poverty spec. There’ll always be someone willing to pay, though, as with the other models.
“crazy low, even free, running costs.”
Yeah, right.
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