Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

[Evanivitch]

jjwilde said:

It will be £39k for UK tax reasons for a decent spec, but it's a good car for the money with crazy low, even free, running costs.

Model 3 doesn't get free access to SuperCharger network, so you're likely paying for the electricity one way or another.

[gangzoom]

Evanivitch said:

Model 3 doesn't get free access to SuperCharger network, so you're likely paying for the electricity one way or another.

I hardly ever use the Supercharger network. 34k miles covered in various EVs now. Total cost of electricity to do 34k about £680. I've done the calculations about five times because even I cannot believe that figure!!!

Factor in the 4.5kish of business miles Ive done in that time at 45p/mile by my calculations fuel costs have been a net -£1350. Obviously £0 road tax, only have paid £90 for a stamp in the book for a Leaf, and its hard to see how motoring can get any cheaper.

Yes the car it self you have to pay for, buy deprecation costs on all cars are unavoidable, however for day to day out of pocket cost running an EV is hard to beat....and no the battieres dont just die after 10K, more like 200K before lossing 10% life, and likely another 200K before getting to 80% life of new.

https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degra...

[liner33]

gangzoom said:

Yes the car it self you have to pay for,

And thats out of the realms of most people . Bit like a neighbour of mine who traded his 18 month old Prius for the plug in version after 8000 miles as he " will save a fortune on fuel"

[Heres Johnny]

liner33 said:

And thats out of the realms of most people . Bit like a neighbour of mine who traded his 18 month old Prius for the plug in version after 8000 miles as he " will save a fortune on fuel"

I was talking to someone about that - if you had to shell out 80k I'd agree, but I was doing the maths with a guy on the train the other day - he paid about 400 a month for his pcp (which is not mega bucks) and about 300 a month in fuel - I doubt a new Tesla would cost much more than the combined amount.

Now buy a used Tesla after some of the depreciation has come off, do some company mileage at 45p a mile - and it can get very cheap. I recon my P90DL - a car thats under 3s to 60mph - is costing me about £300 a month, all in, excluding tyres but including knocking off my company mileage allowance..

[Evanivitch]

gangzoom said:

I hardly ever use the Supercharger network. 34k miles covered in various EVs now. Total cost of electricity to do 34k about £680. I've done the calculations about five times because even I cannot believe that figure!!!

You're paying circa 6p/kWh?

[liner33]

Heres Johnny said:

Now buy a used Tesla after some of the depreciation has come off, do some company mileage at 45p a mile - and it can get very cheap. I recon my P90DL - a car thats under 3s to 60mph - is costing me about £300 a month, all in, excluding tyres but including knocking off my company mileage allowance..

Are you saying you can BUY and RUN a P90D for £300 per month ? If so sign me up you've converted me

[Heres Johnny]

Evanivitch said:

gangzoom said:

I hardly ever use the Supercharger network. 34k miles covered in various EVs now. Total cost of electricity to do 34k about £680. I've done the calculations about five times because even I cannot believe that figure!!!

You're paying circa 6p/kWh?

Its called economy 7

[gangzoom]

Evanivitch said:

You're paying circa 6p/kWh?

E7 rate with Bulb, previously Eon.

Day time rate is 1.5p per kWh more but night time rate is half. Our house hold day/night use/split is 30%-70%. Everything possible is on between midnight and 8am -washing/dryer/car. I have meter readers coming to the house every few months because they don't believe any household can shift their electricity use to much to overnight.

Best bit is our current house has a solar PV setup which us fully owned by us, we got paid £500 last 12 months of solar generated, our actual day time electricty use last 12 months was 3000 units which cost us less than £500. We also have a battery/solar storage system coming at some point so we'll be nearly 100% on E7 rates......the utility compaines are going have a fit when that is installed and first bills start coming through.

[Heres Johnny]

liner33 said:

Heres Johnny said:

Now buy a used Tesla after some of the depreciation has come off, do some company mileage at 45p a mile - and it can get very cheap. I recon my P90DL - a car thats under 3s to 60mph - is costing me about £300 a month, all in, excluding tyres but including knocking off my company mileage allowance..

Are you saying you can BUY and RUN a P90D for £300 per month ? If so sign me up you've converted me

Might be worth expanding the maths, even if a little unsavoury but you can make your own assumptions
Bought a used one for 77k in Oct - 1 year old, facelift, a little hard to find, but predates road fund license and limits on supercharging.
I recon 9 months on I'd still get 70k as a used sale as the cheapest facelift is 73k at the moment - so 7k dropped or £777 a month
Fuel - I charge once a week at the railway station when I go to London - I get a close to full charge for £1
Any distance and I super charge for free
If I do need to charge at home its not that often so in 9 months, maybe £90 in electricity - £10 a month, lets say £15 to be pessimistic
I do about 1000 miles a month on the company (all my commuting is on the company) and get 45p a mile - this is the swing item to make the numbers - thats +£450 (ok thats limited to 10k miles at that rate then 22p a mile)

£777+15- 450 = £372 (my man maths was a little out earlier but still a bargain)

You could add in cost of money, tyres (I £100 a month) insurance (£50 a month) and servicing which is optional...

The secret is buying wisely - buy a new one and you'd lose 20k in depreciation as you drive away. I built a web site tracking every tesla for sale in the country to work out the market

Edited by Heres Johnny on Wednesday 30th May 15:47

[ElectricSoup]

liner33 said:

Heres Johnny said:

Now buy a used Tesla after some of the depreciation has come off, do some company mileage at 45p a mile - and it can get very cheap. I recon my P90DL - a car thats under 3s to 60mph - is costing me about £300 a month, all in, excluding tyres but including knocking off my company mileage allowance..

Are you saying you can BUY and RUN a P90D for £300 per month ? If so sign me up you've converted me

I have bought and am running a Nissan Leaf (2 years old, 8k miles on the clock at time of purchase) for £150 a month all in, so it doesn't sound too fanciful to do it for twice that on a Tesla S.

[EddieSteadyGo]

gangzoom said:

E7 rate with Bulb, previously Eon.

Day time rate is 1.5p per kWh more but night time rate is half. Our house hold day/night use/split is 30%-70%. Everything possible is on between midnight and 8am -washing/dryer/car. I have meter readers coming to the house every few months because they don't believe any household can shift their electricity use to much to overnight.

Best bit is our current house has a solar PV setup which us fully owned by us, we got paid £500 last 12 months of solar generated, our actual day time electricty use last 12 months was 3000 units which cost us less than £500. We also have a battery/solar storage system coming at some point so we'll be nearly 100% on E7 rates......the utility compaines are going have a fit when that is installed and first bills start coming through.

That's a very good setup.

[gangzoom]

liner33 said:

Are you saying you can BUY and RUN a P90D for £300 per month ? If so sign me up you've converted me

Only if your good with taxes (so not me). But the Model 3 is half the price of a S/X with the same crazy low running costs. Also there is something about drop in EV tax to 1% or something in 2020 (I honestly have no idea on tax).

But essentially a £40k Model 3 will be very cheap to run compared to a 340i/S4 etc.

If you really want cheap, a Leaf/Zoe is almost cheaper than walking and all the associated food/drink costs it takes to fuel your body!!!

The £200/month all in cost, virtually no fuel costs, £300 a year insurance, brand new car, really hard to beat.

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 30th May 15:43

[ElectricSoup]

EddieSteadyGo said:

gangzoom said:

E7 rate with Bulb, previously Eon.

Day time rate is 1.5p per kWh more but night time rate is half. Our house hold day/night use/split is 30%-70%. Everything possible is on between midnight and 8am -washing/dryer/car. I have meter readers coming to the house every few months because they don't believe any household can shift their electricity use to much to overnight.

Best bit is our current house has a solar PV setup which us fully owned by us, we got paid £500 last 12 months of solar generated, our actual day time electricty use last 12 months was 3000 units which cost us less than £500. We also have a battery/solar storage system coming at some point so we'll be nearly 100% on E7 rates......the utility compaines are going have a fit when that is installed and first bills start coming through.

That's a very good setup.

Except for the dying-in-your-sleep-from-a-tumble-dryer-fire bit. I would not want to run a tumble dryer overnight no matter how much cheaper it is.

[liner33]

ElectricSoup said:

I have bought and am running a Nissan Leaf (2 years old, 8k miles on the clock at time of purchase) for £150 a month all in, so it doesn't sound too fanciful to do it for twice that on a Tesla S.

Wow there is some truly monumental man maths going on here ! LOL

£150 per month, buying and running. So on autotrader first Leaf I found is £13.5k so £13.5k/£150 = 7.5 years to pay off the loan, not including running it or do you rely on doing 1000 miles per month for work as well?

[ElectricSoup]

liner33 said:

ElectricSoup said:

I have bought and am running a Nissan Leaf (2 years old, 8k miles on the clock at time of purchase) for £150 a month all in, so it doesn't sound too fanciful to do it for twice that on a Tesla S.

Wow there is some truly monumental man maths going on here ! LOL

£150 per month, buying and running. So on autotrader first Leaf I found is £13.5k so £13.5k/£150 = 7.5 years to pay off the loan, not including running it or do you rely on doing 1000 miles per month for work as well?

No it's quite simple. I am on a 3 year PCP at £150 a month. I charge for free at work. No road tax. So it's costing me £150 a month. Ok, I haven't factored in the £500 deposit I paid, so you can split that over 36 months and add it on if you want, so £164 a month. At the end of 3 years I'll probably still have some equity for a deposit on a replacement car, which I expect will be another Leaf at a similar rate.

Screen price on my Leaf was £10k and the dealer knocked £1k off that. I also got a free charger installed in my garage at home.

Don't know why people are so keen to question others. This is amazingly cheap motoring for me, considering I used to put £300 a month of diesel alone in my old car.

Oh, and no servicing costs as 3 services are included in my PCP.

[liner33]

ElectricSoup said:

No it's quite simple. I am on a 3 year PCP at £150 a month. I charge for free at work. No road tax. So it's costing me £150 a month. Ok, I haven't factored in the £500 deposit I paid, so you can split that over 36 months and add it on if you want, so £164 a month. At the end of 3 years I'll probably still have some equity for a deposit on a replacement car, which I expect will be another Leaf at a similar rate.

Screen price on my Leaf was £10k and the dealer knocked £1k off that. I also got a free charger installed in my garage at home.

Don't know why people are so keen to question others. This is amazingly cheap motoring for me, considering I used to put £300 a month of diesel alone in my old car.

People are so keen as others are keen to mislead and questions give clarification

[ElectricSoup]

liner33 said:

People are so keen as others are keen to mislead and questions give clarification

Really? Who is misleading?

[Evanivitch]

gangzoom said:

E7 rate with Bulb, previously Eon.

Day time rate is 1.5p per kWh more but night time rate is half.

Eh? You pay 7.5p peak and less than 4p overnight?

I've never seen rates that good reported by anyone on the EV forums.

[Heres Johnny]

Evanivitch said:

gangzoom said:

E7 rate with Bulb, previously Eon.

Day time rate is 1.5p per kWh more but night time rate is half.

Eh? You pay 7.5p peak and less than 4p overnight?

I've never seen rates that good reported by anyone on the EV forums.

Gang can answer, but the 6p is E7 and thats what he uses to charge, which is half the Day rate of 12p, and without E7 its all 10.5p would be my guess.

[Evanivitch]

Heres Johnny said:

Gang can answer, but the 6p is E7 and thats what he uses to charge, which is half the Day rate of 12p, and without E7 its all 10.5p would be my guess.

That would align with my expectation of E7, but that's not how I understood his response.