Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
DragonflyTrumpeter said:
So quite a few 7kw destination chargers dotted around, graphics can mean anything. At least a model 3 will charge in a dozen hours. As a comparison, post the Tesla supercharger map of Scotland. You will only need 1 hand to count them. Our town has 1 single type 2 50kw, 20 miles to the next one and 100 miles for a Tesla one. You can imagine how often the single rapid chargers are busy / broken / ice'd. Like most other single charge points around the country.
If you need to go a 40 mile round trip hoping it is clear when you get there it does not fill you with enthusiasm. Apart from having to join a stack of networks. The various players in the charging network need to get their act together and make it easier for customers.
Customers can also make it easier for fellow customers by renting out their driveways via one of the many private parking apps in due course. All the tech is already in place and I suspect you can already do this. If you need to go a 40 mile round trip hoping it is clear when you get there it does not fill you with enthusiasm. Apart from having to join a stack of networks. The various players in the charging network need to get their act together and make it easier for customers.
I use the apps when going to parts of London and use driveways where the owner is out all working day with their car and put their space up for rent.
JPJPJP said:
What is a fair price for use of a rapid charger?
if the actual cost of the fuel is something like 4.2p / kWH (not out of the ordinary https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/all-charts/po...
How much over that are EV drivers prepared to pay for the convenience (or necessity) of rapid charging in the wild?
I've used AFH rapid charging twice in the last 12 months, both times on the same journey in fact.
So I'm not especially price sensitive, nor am I someone that charging network operators could look at as a customer when planning a business. For me 40p / kWH doesn't feel out of line with the premium price I would pay for fuelling an ICE car at a motorway service station. It isn't cheap, but if I needed it, I would pay it without hesitation.
For people with no access to any other source of EV charging, 40p/kWh means more than 10p per mile and is probably a non starter.
How much to buy a rapid charger? Maybe £30k, maybe a bit more.
How much to install it? Maybe another £30k?
How much to maintain it? Maybe £500 a year?
What cost the land it is on? Maybe £2500 a year?
I reckon a rapid charger at 40p / kWH needs at least 30 customers a week to make it pay... How far out am I?
This is the biggest barrier/impediment to wide scale adoption. It would royalty piss me off having to pay 30p/kwh+ if the actual cost of the fuel is something like 4.2p / kWH (not out of the ordinary https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/all-charts/po...
How much over that are EV drivers prepared to pay for the convenience (or necessity) of rapid charging in the wild?
I've used AFH rapid charging twice in the last 12 months, both times on the same journey in fact.
So I'm not especially price sensitive, nor am I someone that charging network operators could look at as a customer when planning a business. For me 40p / kWH doesn't feel out of line with the premium price I would pay for fuelling an ICE car at a motorway service station. It isn't cheap, but if I needed it, I would pay it without hesitation.
For people with no access to any other source of EV charging, 40p/kWh means more than 10p per mile and is probably a non starter.
How much to buy a rapid charger? Maybe £30k, maybe a bit more.
How much to install it? Maybe another £30k?
How much to maintain it? Maybe £500 a year?
What cost the land it is on? Maybe £2500 a year?
I reckon a rapid charger at 40p / kWH needs at least 30 customers a week to make it pay... How far out am I?
The network needs to grow quicker. When will the Govt decide to tax the electricity to offset the lost VED
JPJPJP said:
What is a fair price for use of a rapid charger?
if the actual cost of the fuel is something like 4.2p / kWH (not out of the ordinary https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/all-charts/po...
How much over that are EV drivers prepared to pay for the convenience (or necessity) of rapid charging in the wild?
I've used AFH rapid charging twice in the last 12 months, both times on the same journey in fact.
So I'm not especially price sensitive, nor am I someone that charging network operators could look at as a customer when planning a business. For me 40p / kWH doesn't feel out of line with the premium price I would pay for fuelling an ICE car at a motorway service station. It isn't cheap, but if I needed it, I would pay it without hesitation.
For people with no access to any other source of EV charging, 40p/kWh means more than 10p per mile and is probably a non starter.
How much to buy a rapid charger? Maybe £30k, maybe a bit more.
How much to install it? Maybe another £30k?
How much to maintain it? Maybe £500 a year?
What cost the land it is on? Maybe £2500 a year?
I reckon a rapid charger at 40p / kWH needs at least 30 customers a week to make it pay... How far out am I?
You may be right - pointing out the price of electricity varies by time of day and time of year.if the actual cost of the fuel is something like 4.2p / kWH (not out of the ordinary https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/data-portal/all-charts/po...
How much over that are EV drivers prepared to pay for the convenience (or necessity) of rapid charging in the wild?
I've used AFH rapid charging twice in the last 12 months, both times on the same journey in fact.
So I'm not especially price sensitive, nor am I someone that charging network operators could look at as a customer when planning a business. For me 40p / kWH doesn't feel out of line with the premium price I would pay for fuelling an ICE car at a motorway service station. It isn't cheap, but if I needed it, I would pay it without hesitation.
For people with no access to any other source of EV charging, 40p/kWh means more than 10p per mile and is probably a non starter.
How much to buy a rapid charger? Maybe £30k, maybe a bit more.
How much to install it? Maybe another £30k?
How much to maintain it? Maybe £500 a year?
What cost the land it is on? Maybe £2500 a year?
I reckon a rapid charger at 40p / kWH needs at least 30 customers a week to make it pay... How far out am I?
On average, the average delivered cost of non domestic electricity is in the region of 13 p/kwh of which 65% is attributed to Grid Charges and Taxes. The remainder the cost of generation.
Burwood said:
JP, are the leading points really 30k plus 30k to install? How can that be? I have no idea. I’m interested in the math
Yep cost of the high power charger, ground works and electricity supply 60k to install isnt unreasonable.High power fast charging is like bottled water, you are not paying for the water...
Saint Theresa's search for legacy has today for another one.
£625 million loan to JL for EVs, compulsory charge points for new builds. New committee setup to include car companies/oil companies and National Grid
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jul/15/j...
£625 million loan to JL for EVs, compulsory charge points for new builds. New committee setup to include car companies/oil companies and National Grid
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jul/15/j...
Edited by hyphen on Monday 15th July 22:05
RobDickinson said:
none of which is relevant to the thread.
Ofcourse it is.All of it is related to competition for Tesla, and future elimination of its supercharger advantage.
Furthermore, the UK has set a precedent, Germany and France may look and decide they would be quite happy to back their motor companies too with loans.
You do know the thread title is about Tesla surviving right?
Edited by hyphen on Monday 15th July 22:04
Burwood said:
Just to be clear. It’s a guarantee in the event if default. U.K. plc have not given JLR any cash
The article says the money is being given by the UK Export agency.That is a government agency.
Sounds like it's a workaround so it doesn't fall foul of 'state aid' laws under the EU.
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