Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
RobDickinson said:
UK electricity is 50%+ clean from a C02 pov and quickly getting better.
But yes people are better waling, biking or taking (green) public transport where they can. Most wont though,
I can’t walk anywhere from my house. I’m miles from any convenience. And in NZ the public transport us sBut yes people are better waling, biking or taking (green) public transport where they can. Most wont though,
t. As is driving anywhere. It’s all good and well putting it in the consumer but if it’s inconvenience you won’t get any major adoption RobDickinson said:
UK electricity is 50%+ clean from a C02 pov and quickly getting better.
But yes people are better waling, biking or taking (green) public transport where they can. Most wont though,
The UK apparently has successfully lowered it's CO2 emissions to the lowest value since 1888. It's frustrating when people pretend that 'nothing is being done'. Unfortunately the amount of misinformation on this topic is ridiculous - vested interests from all sides.But yes people are better waling, biking or taking (green) public transport where they can. Most wont though,
dmsims said:
Tuna said:
If you really care about CO2, you don't drive everywhere in two tonne cars with only single occupants.
Make that 2.5 tonnes, the SE seems to be infested with JLR productsIn fact this is the overriding factor in the slow down of CO2 reduction for transport
"In what Automotive News is declaring a “bold way forward,” new BMW CEO Oliver Zipse is promising not to make electric cars on a platform that is not explicitly designed for their propulsion system, not because that is better for BMW’s customers but for BMW’s ease of manufacturing:" says Jalopnik today:"This is a very different approach from companies like Volkswagen, which see the future of EVs as needing dedicated platforms Batteries can be laid flat like a pancake across virtually the entire bottom of a car on a dedicated EV platform, enabling much more of them and with better weight distribution, and electric motors can be placed in much more inconspicuous spots than with a traditional piston engine."
Automotive News said: "Zipse delivered a 40-minute talk at the Oxford plant, half of it devoted to why BMW shouldn’t go down the same path as Volkswagen and others in creating vehicle platforms that are uniquely electric. Instead, he said, BMW must have platforms that can go either way. That has been a topic of strategic debate inside BMW in recent years, complicated by the company’s relatively limited global production capacity. BMW in June said it will introduce 25 electrified models by 2023. Zipse was at the plant in southern England to present Mini’s first electric car, the Cooper SE. It is built on the same platform as combustion-engine cars that are moving down the same assembly line. He said the cost to adapt the plant was minimal and did not require a big effort."
BMW slipping more into irrelevancy...
Automotive News said: "Zipse delivered a 40-minute talk at the Oxford plant, half of it devoted to why BMW shouldn’t go down the same path as Volkswagen and others in creating vehicle platforms that are uniquely electric. Instead, he said, BMW must have platforms that can go either way. That has been a topic of strategic debate inside BMW in recent years, complicated by the company’s relatively limited global production capacity. BMW in June said it will introduce 25 electrified models by 2023. Zipse was at the plant in southern England to present Mini’s first electric car, the Cooper SE. It is built on the same platform as combustion-engine cars that are moving down the same assembly line. He said the cost to adapt the plant was minimal and did not require a big effort."
BMW slipping more into irrelevancy...
I've yet to see any evidence that a dedicated platform is inherently superior. There are some examples where not using a dedicated platform has led to compromises, but this isn't universal. Properly designed, there's no reason a shared platform can't be every bit as good as a dedicated platform. Volvo are doing it now with their CMA, and it sounds like that's what BMW are planning to do.
RobDickinson said:
"In what Automotive News is declaring a “bold way forward,” new BMW CEO Oliver Zipse is promising not to make electric cars on a platform that is not explicitly designed for their propulsion system, not because that is better for BMW’s customers but for BMW’s ease of manufacturing:" says Jalopnik today:"This is a very different approach from companies like Volkswagen, which see the future of EVs as needing dedicated platforms Batteries can be laid flat like a pancake across virtually the entire bottom of a car on a dedicated EV platform, enabling much more of them and with better weight distribution, and electric motors can be placed in much more inconspicuous spots than with a traditional piston engine."
Automotive News said: "Zipse delivered a 40-minute talk at the Oxford plant, half of it devoted to why BMW shouldn’t go down the same path as Volkswagen and others in creating vehicle platforms that are uniquely electric. Instead, he said, BMW must have platforms that can go either way. That has been a topic of strategic debate inside BMW in recent years, complicated by the company’s relatively limited global production capacity. BMW in June said it will introduce 25 electrified models by 2023. Zipse was at the plant in southern England to present Mini’s first electric car, the Cooper SE. It is built on the same platform as combustion-engine cars that are moving down the same assembly line. He said the cost to adapt the plant was minimal and did not require a big effort.?"
BMW slipping more into irrelevancy...
Anyone would think BMW have never made an EV on a dedicated platform.Automotive News said: "Zipse delivered a 40-minute talk at the Oxford plant, half of it devoted to why BMW shouldn’t go down the same path as Volkswagen and others in creating vehicle platforms that are uniquely electric. Instead, he said, BMW must have platforms that can go either way. That has been a topic of strategic debate inside BMW in recent years, complicated by the company’s relatively limited global production capacity. BMW in June said it will introduce 25 electrified models by 2023. Zipse was at the plant in southern England to present Mini’s first electric car, the Cooper SE. It is built on the same platform as combustion-engine cars that are moving down the same assembly line. He said the cost to adapt the plant was minimal and did not require a big effort.?"
BMW slipping more into irrelevancy...
Perhaps they’ve learnt something the others haven’t, well except the Kona which is cheaper and better equipped than the Model 3, and that’s how to do it, and give ICE are likely to be 80%+ of sales maybe that’s smart.
Heres Johnny said:
Anyone would think BMW have never made an EV on a dedicated platform.
Perhaps they’ve learnt something the others haven’t, well except the Kona which is cheaper and better equipped than the Model 3, and that’s how to do it, and give ICE are likely to be 80%+ of sales maybe that’s smart.
But the Kona is an insipid fwd appliance which doesn't even belong in the same sentence as a Tesla. Perhaps they’ve learnt something the others haven’t, well except the Kona which is cheaper and better equipped than the Model 3, and that’s how to do it, and give ICE are likely to be 80%+ of sales maybe that’s smart.
RobDickinson said:
"In what Automotive News is declaring a “bold way forward,” new BMW CEO Oliver Zipse is promising not to make electric cars on a platform that is not explicitly designed for their propulsion system, not because that is better for BMW’s customers but for BMW’s ease of manufacturing:" says Jalopnik today:"This is a very different approach from companies like Volkswagen, which see the future of EVs as needing dedicated platforms Batteries can be laid flat like a pancake across virtually the entire bottom of a car on a dedicated EV platform, enabling much more of them and with better weight distribution, and electric motors can be placed in much more inconspicuous spots than with a traditional piston engine."
Automotive News said: "Zipse delivered a 40-minute talk at the Oxford plant, half of it devoted to why BMW shouldn’t go down the same path as Volkswagen and others in creating vehicle platforms that are uniquely electric. Instead, he said, BMW must have platforms that can go either way. That has been a topic of strategic debate inside BMW in recent years, complicated by the company’s relatively limited global production capacity. BMW in June said it will introduce 25 electrified models by 2023. Zipse was at the plant in southern England to present Mini’s first electric car, the Cooper SE. It is built on the same platform as combustion-engine cars that are moving down the same assembly line. He said the cost to adapt the plant was minimal and did not require a big effort.?"
BMW slipping more into irrelevancy...
Only in your head could sensible manufacturing strategy be considered "slipping into irrelevancy" Automotive News said: "Zipse delivered a 40-minute talk at the Oxford plant, half of it devoted to why BMW shouldn’t go down the same path as Volkswagen and others in creating vehicle platforms that are uniquely electric. Instead, he said, BMW must have platforms that can go either way. That has been a topic of strategic debate inside BMW in recent years, complicated by the company’s relatively limited global production capacity. BMW in June said it will introduce 25 electrified models by 2023. Zipse was at the plant in southern England to present Mini’s first electric car, the Cooper SE. It is built on the same platform as combustion-engine cars that are moving down the same assembly line. He said the cost to adapt the plant was minimal and did not require a big effort.?"
BMW slipping more into irrelevancy...
Old news, they said that a few weeks ago at the Mini electric launch. It will be cheaper, and so the cars will be cheaper.
Rob, EVs are 1% of market, and as per the many reports and graphs I have posted, for a long time yet, petrol and diesel cars will remain massive sellers.
So making seperate manufacturing lines in the short to medium future is not an essential move.
Design a car, let the buyer decide the fuel choice, less investment, less overheads, less salaries to pay and so on.
It's the way I imagine the other manufacturers will go as they have more models.
You may think EVs are some magical unicorns
but they are just vehicles powered by another source.Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 23 July 07:37
Heres Johnny said:
Anyone would think BMW have never made an EV on a dedicated platform.
Perhaps they’ve learnt something the others haven’t, well except the Kona which is cheaper and better equipped than the Model 3, and that’s how to do it, and give ICE are likely to be 80%+ of sales maybe that’s smart.
The Combustion version of the Kona is also much better equipped and better value than a base BMW X3, I haven't checked but the Kona must be £10-15k cheaper, most people still want the BMW.Perhaps they’ve learnt something the others haven’t, well except the Kona which is cheaper and better equipped than the Model 3, and that’s how to do it, and give ICE are likely to be 80%+ of sales maybe that’s smart.
Witchfinder said:
I've yet to see any evidence that a dedicated platform is inherently superior. There are some examples where not using a dedicated platform has led to compromises, but this isn't universal. Properly designed, there's no reason a shared platform can't be every bit as good as a dedicated platform. Volvo are doing it now with their CMA, and it sounds like that's what BMW are planning to do.
In a pure engineering sense, a bespoke platform is a no brainer. With a shared platform you'll be compromised on either the ICE config or the EV (or worst case both). The packaging requirements and it's subsequent influence on structures, dynamics, crash etc are a world apart.However, in this transition phase where EV is a small and growing section of the market there is merit in the idea of a hybrid platform that allows both to go down the same production line, potentially reducing capex and giving you a solution scale the EV component of sales. This assumes that your product is not so compromised that it can't compete against the bespoke EVs. Another key thing would be to continue investment into pure EV platforms to ensure you are not left behind when that becomes the clear route to go.
RobDickinson said:
"In what Automotive News is declaring a “bold way forward,” new BMW CEO Oliver Zipse is promising not to make electric cars on a platform that is not explicitly designed for their propulsion system, not because that is better for BMW’s customers but for BMW’s ease of manufacturing:" says Jalopnik today:"This is a very different approach from companies like Volkswagen, which see the future of EVs as needing dedicated platforms Batteries can be laid flat like a pancake across virtually the entire bottom of a car on a dedicated EV platform, enabling much more of them and with better weight distribution, and electric motors can be placed in much more inconspicuous spots than with a traditional piston engine."
Automotive News said: "Zipse delivered a 40-minute talk at the Oxford plant, half of it devoted to why BMW shouldn’t go down the same path as Volkswagen and others in creating vehicle platforms that are uniquely electric. Instead, he said, BMW must have platforms that can go either way. That has been a topic of strategic debate inside BMW in recent years, complicated by the company’s relatively limited global production capacity. BMW in June said it will introduce 25 electrified models by 2023. Zipse was at the plant in southern England to present Mini’s first electric car, the Cooper SE. It is built on the same platform as combustion-engine cars that are moving down the same assembly line. He said the cost to adapt the plant was minimal and did not require a big effort.?"
BMW slipping more into irrelevancy...
Why? Obviously you religiously believe that all cars on the planet will become battery powered EVs but this isn’t obviously true and the automotive industry knows this. Automotive News said: "Zipse delivered a 40-minute talk at the Oxford plant, half of it devoted to why BMW shouldn’t go down the same path as Volkswagen and others in creating vehicle platforms that are uniquely electric. Instead, he said, BMW must have platforms that can go either way. That has been a topic of strategic debate inside BMW in recent years, complicated by the company’s relatively limited global production capacity. BMW in June said it will introduce 25 electrified models by 2023. Zipse was at the plant in southern England to present Mini’s first electric car, the Cooper SE. It is built on the same platform as combustion-engine cars that are moving down the same assembly line. He said the cost to adapt the plant was minimal and did not require a big effort.?"
BMW slipping more into irrelevancy...
This news from BMW isn’t irrelevant but instead extremely interesting as it shows a different path forward to EVs from a a business that is structured very differently from VW or Mercedes.
BMW basically just makes premium private vehicles in a range of sizes. On the one hand this gives them an advantage in EVs as EVs can only be bought by the globally wealthy. On the other hand they are at a big disadvantage re product and customer diversity. Mercedes sell vast numbers of minicabs, vans, trucks and other commercial machinery, VW has an extremely wide range of customer dynamics from the poorest consumers to the wealthiest. Both those businesses have natural ICE/EV hedges already within their structure. BMW doesn’t. It obviously can’t go all in on EV as no one is buying them yet, their production is inefficient and their pricing too high. None of those things are going to change over night and demand could be ended in any market at any time just by a change of local government. So creating a business hedge as they propose is an intelligent way to move forward and expand with EVs but remain profitable and flexible to the timings and changes.
This news is the exact opposite of irrelevancy.
gangzoom said:
The Combustion version of the Kona is also much better equipped and better value than a base BMW X3, I haven't checked but the Kona must be £10-15k cheaper, most people still want the BMW.
The Kona is smaller even than the X1 let alone the X3, I don't think BMW have a car in the same segment to compare it with.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff