Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
Witchfinder said:
I've yet to see any evidence that a dedicated platform is inherently superior. There are some examples where not using a dedicated platform has led to compromises, but this isn't universal. Properly designed, there's no reason a shared platform can't be every bit as good as a dedicated platform. Volvo are doing it now with their CMA, and it sounds like that's what BMW are planning to do.
The argument seems to be around time on the production line. Each minute that is spent is a financial loss. VW have opted for the dedicated approach as they argued that not only would this allow them to match the rate at which they can build ICEs which is apparently around 14 hours but are targeting 11 hours in the long run with EVs. At the bottom end of the market production time is critical to profits. At the premium end of the market it isn’t. The profit doesn’t come from scraping the last valuable second from the production time but from the branding and marketing.
jjwilde said:
REALIST123 said:
Yes, I could, but I’m not going to. Why should I? If you’re in denial, that’s your problem.
As I said, it’s not really in doubt.
Prove me (and just about every authority involved) wrong if you can.
Good thing it will soon go back down when we go EV though right?As I said, it’s not really in doubt.
Prove me (and just about every authority involved) wrong if you can.
REALIST123 said:
Absolutely. But to reiterate my first and only point, maybe government policy should have stayed as it was until there is a ready supply of capable and affordable EVs.
It's still not getting through to people. The UN now says we have about 11 years to prevent catastrophic climate change. We're all going to have to make sacrifices in our lifestyles. I think government policy is too conservative.Witchfinder said:
It's still not getting through to people. The UN now says we have about 11 years to prevent catastrophic climate change. We're all going to have to make sacrifices in our lifestyles. I think government policy is too conservative.
Its easier to cry fake nooze and carry on as we always have though :/Witchfinder said:
It's still not getting through to people. The UN now says we have about 11 years to prevent catastrophic climate change. We're all going to have to make sacrifices in our lifestyles. I think government policy is too conservative.
Ok, what should the government policy actually be in your opinion ( relating to EVs given the thread subject ).RobDickinson said:
UK electricity is 50%+ clean from a C02 pov and quickly getting better.
But yes people are better waling, biking or taking (green) public transport where they can. Most wont though,
there are a lot of people that cant walk or bike, and who the hell wants to crammed into hot smelly public transport ...But yes people are better waling, biking or taking (green) public transport where they can. Most wont though,
Smiljan said:
Ok, what should the government policy actually be in your opinion ( relating to EVs given the thread subject ).
IMO given the supply constraints, the ev incentive of £3500, the BIK rates and the subsidised charger installs are all pretty good balanced options.Plus help build out the charging infrastructure.
Even if the UK went all in like Norway there just isnt enough manufacturing yet to have any more on the roads.
Smiljan said:
Witchfinder said:
It's still not getting through to people. The UN now says we have about 11 years to prevent catastrophic climate change. We're all going to have to make sacrifices in our lifestyles. I think government policy is too conservative.
Ok, what should the government policy actually be in your opinion ( relating to EVs given the thread subject ).0% tax / vat on all pure EVs, solar and wind installations and home / office power banks
triple the number of wind farms, install battery banks
double tax on all no EVs and fuel to cover the above
jjwilde said:
V10 SPM said:
Are the health risks from electric cars really yet fully understood? I suspect not.
I know which one i'd be happy to lie down behind and breath in.And for local air quality? It will be a crazy good game changer. I hate some streets in Newcastle because you can taste the diesel in the air and where the buses sit you can see the diesel dirt up the walls.
jjwilde said:
RobDickinson said:
I thought it was odd the UK gov declared a climate emergency and in the same week raised VAT on renewable installs....
They didn't though, the EU did.Dave Hedgehog said:
Smiljan said:
Witchfinder said:
It's still not getting through to people. The UN now says we have about 11 years to prevent catastrophic climate change. We're all going to have to make sacrifices in our lifestyles. I think government policy is too conservative.
Ok, what should the government policy actually be in your opinion ( relating to EVs given the thread subject ).0% tax / vat on all pure EVs, solar and wind installations and home / office power banks
triple the number of wind farms, install battery banks
double tax on all no EVs and fuel to cover the above
The issue of pollution in the West is a matter of excess consumption. The solution therefore is to inspire people to buy fewer goods that they don’t need rather than to incentivise adding to the problem.
That’s the big elephant in the room, a billion consumers borrowing money they don’t have to buy stuff they don’t need. EVs are an absolutely perfect poster boy for the problem in reality. A billion consumers travelling relentlessly to purchase goods and services and billions of commercial transport miles to facilitate this activity.
DonkeyApple said:
It’s still trying to use consumer spending to fix the problem of consumer spending, all because we have a global obsession with growing GDP.
The issue of pollution in the West is a matter of excess consumption. The solution therefore is to inspire people to buy fewer goods that they don’t need rather than to incentivise adding to the problem.
That’s the big elephant in the room, a billion consumers borrowing money they don’t have to buy stuff they don’t need. EVs are an absolutely perfect poster boy for the problem in reality. A billion consumers travelling relentlessly to purchase goods and services and billions of commercial transport miles to facilitate this activity.
Not an obsession, a necessity for the survival of the global financial system. I suspect EVs and environmental causes in general have been co-opted to drive growth because the alternative is unpalatable. As you suggest, the real solution is reduced consumption, but I think that is an impossibility in any meaningful way without the wheels coming off, so to speak. The issue of pollution in the West is a matter of excess consumption. The solution therefore is to inspire people to buy fewer goods that they don’t need rather than to incentivise adding to the problem.
That’s the big elephant in the room, a billion consumers borrowing money they don’t have to buy stuff they don’t need. EVs are an absolutely perfect poster boy for the problem in reality. A billion consumers travelling relentlessly to purchase goods and services and billions of commercial transport miles to facilitate this activity.
DonkeyApple said:
It’s still trying to use consumer spending to fix the problem of consumer spending, all because we have a global obsession with growing GDP.
The issue of pollution in the West is a matter of excess consumption. The solution therefore is to inspire people to buy fewer goods that they don’t need rather than to incentivise adding to the problem.
That’s the big elephant in the room, a billion consumers borrowing money they don’t have to buy stuff they don’t need. EVs are an absolutely perfect poster boy for the problem in reality. A billion consumers travelling relentlessly to purchase goods and services and billions of commercial transport miles to facilitate this activity.
The elephant in the room is the size of the population. The issue of pollution in the West is a matter of excess consumption. The solution therefore is to inspire people to buy fewer goods that they don’t need rather than to incentivise adding to the problem.
That’s the big elephant in the room, a billion consumers borrowing money they don’t have to buy stuff they don’t need. EVs are an absolutely perfect poster boy for the problem in reality. A billion consumers travelling relentlessly to purchase goods and services and billions of commercial transport miles to facilitate this activity.
DonkeyApple said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
Smiljan said:
Witchfinder said:
It's still not getting through to people. The UN now says we have about 11 years to prevent catastrophic climate change. We're all going to have to make sacrifices in our lifestyles. I think government policy is too conservative.
Ok, what should the government policy actually be in your opinion ( relating to EVs given the thread subject ).0% tax / vat on all pure EVs, solar and wind installations and home / office power banks
triple the number of wind farms, install battery banks
double tax on all no EVs and fuel to cover the above
The issue of pollution in the West is a matter of excess consumption. The solution therefore is to inspire people to buy fewer goods that they don’t need rather than to incentivise adding to the problem.
That’s the big elephant in the room, a billion consumers borrowing money they don’t have to buy stuff they don’t need. EVs are an absolutely perfect poster boy for the problem in reality. A billion consumers travelling relentlessly to purchase goods and services and billions of commercial transport miles to facilitate this activity.
t if a few scientists say we're doomed. I don't believe we have 11 years. It would be easier to tell China to be a bit greener (and the US). Let's not forget we aren't ready to adopt EV yet. It's too expensive and obviously there are a million people out there that can't afford any new car so totally daft idea taxing them even more because they can't comply. And in any event, big auto doesn't have the capacity and won't for 10 years.There are a significant number of car users where EV is inappropriate and I don't know the figures but would guess trucking accounts for a large part of the problem. The point being, the ill informed may want to tax/force consumers which are not the problem.
Dave Hedgehog said:
Smiljan said:
Witchfinder said:
It's still not getting through to people. The UN now says we have about 11 years to prevent catastrophic climate change. We're all going to have to make sacrifices in our lifestyles. I think government policy is too conservative.
Ok, what should the government policy actually be in your opinion ( relating to EVs given the thread subject ).0% tax / vat on all pure EVs, solar and wind installations and home / office power banks
triple the number of wind farms, install battery banks
double tax on all no EVs and fuel to cover the above
REALIST123 said:
The elephant in the room is the size of the population.
It’s a factor but it’s not the booming third world poor who are making all the factories run, planes fly, trucks, ships and vans transport goods because they are driving around buying as much kit as they can borrow to fund. Of the 8bn people on the planet it is the affluent few who are causing the environmental damage. It’s you and me who are consuming more goods and services than 1000 poor. We are the ones stripping countries of their raw materials, shipping them around the world to factories and then shipping it all back round the world to our shops. We are the ones relentlessly over consuming and creating all the pollution.
And what’s our current solution to all of this? That’s right, it’s to increase the amount of goods and services that we buy and increase the stripping and shipping.
EVs aren’t a solution to the global problem but part of it. And we would be fools to fall for all the propaganda that tells us we can shop our way out the looming problem and that the real blame lies with the billions of poor people who don’t buy anything and don’t travel anywhere.
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