Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
JD said:
Musk should pick up the phone and call him asap!hyphen said:
JD said:
Musk should pick up the phone and call him asap!Witchfinder said:
Road pricing is pretty much inevitable.
I'm not sure how that would be work etiher as surely it requires your car movements to be logged which poses privacy concerns.We could have a massive version of the congestion charge where plates are logged between destinations but that has similar concerns to the above.
Taxing electricity will hit the poor the hardest as they use it to power their homes, not only that it will make solar panels popular to avoid paying to fill up (sustainable transportation anyone?).
Having extremely high road tax will hit the poor the hardest again as they probably can't afford to drive around much so their cost per mile will be extremely high.
Not only that but in theory electric cars are more durable and in theory require replacing less often leading to loss in VAT collections off car sales.
jamoor said:
Witchfinder said:
Road pricing is pretty much inevitable.
I'm not sure how that would be work etiher as surely it requires your car movements to be logged which poses privacy concerns.We could have a massive version of the congestion charge where plates are logged between destinations but that has similar concerns to the above.
Taxing electricity will hit the poor the hardest as they use it to power their homes, not only that it will make solar panels popular to avoid paying to fill up (sustainable transportation anyone?).
Having extremely high road tax will hit the poor the hardest again as they probably can't afford to drive around much so their cost per mile will be extremely high.
Not only that but in theory electric cars are more durable and in theory require replacing less often leading to loss in VAT collections off car sales.
Relatively simple to implement on our busier roads, where some of the infrastructure is already in place.
A combination of road tax and pricing on busier roads is an option. Whatever, the revenue will be had one way or another.
Swiss of permits to drive on motorways rather than toll roads - much easier to implement
Same with city centre permits like a variation on what the French are doing
Country folk won’t be penalised as they’ll probably do neither
Tight people will use public transport
And the rest is like the tax on fags - gov happy to give up the tax because of the wider good less pollution will create
Same with city centre permits like a variation on what the French are doing
Country folk won’t be penalised as they’ll probably do neither
Tight people will use public transport
And the rest is like the tax on fags - gov happy to give up the tax because of the wider good less pollution will create
Heres Johnny said:
Swiss of permits to drive on motorways rather than toll roads - much easier to implement
Same with city centre permits like a variation on what the French are doing
Country folk won’t be penalised as they’ll probably do neither
Tight people will use public transport
And the rest is like the tax on fags - gov happy to give up the tax because of the wider good less pollution will create
We already have the Swiss vignette system in the form of road taxSame with city centre permits like a variation on what the French are doing
Country folk won’t be penalised as they’ll probably do neither
Tight people will use public transport
And the rest is like the tax on fags - gov happy to give up the tax because of the wider good less pollution will create
Pricing busy roads is a good idea although it would make the collection uneven surely?
jamoor said:
Witchfinder said:
Road pricing is pretty much inevitable.
I'm not sure how that would be work etiher as surely it requires your car movements to be logged which poses privacy concerns.We could have a massive version of the congestion charge where plates are logged between destinations but that has similar concerns to the above.
Taxing electricity will hit the poor the hardest as they use it to power their homes, not only that it will make solar panels popular to avoid paying to fill up (sustainable transportation anyone?).
Having extremely high road tax will hit the poor the hardest again as they probably can't afford to drive around much so their cost per mile will be extremely high.
Not only that but in theory electric cars are more durable and in theory require replacing less often leading to loss in VAT collections off car sales.
It's not hard to set up and the privacy concerns you mention won't stop it. Once a tipping point is reached where EV use is high in the double figures % of cars on the road you can guarantee schemes will come in to reclaim that lost fuel duty.
jamoor said:
Heres Johnny said:
Swiss of permits to drive on motorways rather than toll roads - much easier to implement
Same with city centre permits like a variation on what the French are doing
Country folk won’t be penalised as they’ll probably do neither
Tight people will use public transport
And the rest is like the tax on fags - gov happy to give up the tax because of the wider good less pollution will create
We already have the Swiss vignette system in the form of road taxSame with city centre permits like a variation on what the French are doing
Country folk won’t be penalised as they’ll probably do neither
Tight people will use public transport
And the rest is like the tax on fags - gov happy to give up the tax because of the wider good less pollution will create
Pricing busy roads is a good idea although it would make the collection uneven surely?
And our continental friends will have to pay too assuming they’re still allowed to come over here.
It’s just an idea and simple to implement
jamoor said:
Witchfinder said:
Road pricing is pretty much inevitable.
I'm not sure how that would be work etiher as surely it requires your car movements to be logged which poses privacy concerns.We could have a massive version of the congestion charge where plates are logged between destinations but that has similar concerns to the above.
Taxing electricity will hit the poor the hardest as they use it to power their homes, not only that it will make solar panels popular to avoid paying to fill up (sustainable transportation anyone?).
Having extremely high road tax will hit the poor the hardest again as they probably can't afford to drive around much so their cost per mile will be extremely high.
Not only that but in theory electric cars are more durable and in theory require replacing less often leading to loss in VAT collections off car sales.
To repeat something I postulated a couple of years ago all those smart meters being installed in UK homes will differentiate between EV charging and normal domestic use and thus differential pricing can be instigated with the Govt harvesting the "fuel duty" they are not receiving via the oil industry
In addition your EV car battery could be part of the national power reserve and can act as a battery reserve to be drawn on as and when required by the network and can be re-charged whenever there is power available. Of course if you want to have the battery soley for your own use you will probably have to pay a premium for that " luxury".
One thing is certain the govt will have to raise revenue from the EV car parc just as they do from the ICE car parc.
Cheers,
Tony
In addition your EV car battery could be part of the national power reserve and can act as a battery reserve to be drawn on as and when required by the network and can be re-charged whenever there is power available. Of course if you want to have the battery soley for your own use you will probably have to pay a premium for that " luxury".
One thing is certain the govt will have to raise revenue from the EV car parc just as they do from the ICE car parc.
Cheers,
Tony
Evanivitch said:
Burwood said:
The tech is there to differentiate between an EV charger drawing power and normal household use. That’s the idea.
You can just plug them into standard wall sockets... 2kW charging overnight would meet most people's needs.Tony427 said:
To repeat something I postulated a couple of years ago all those smart meters being installed in UK homes will differentiate between EV charging and normal domestic use and thus differential pricing can be instigated with the Govt harvesting the "fuel duty" they are not receiving via the oil industry
In addition your EV car battery could be part of the national power reserve and can act as a battery reserve to be drawn on as and when required by the network and can be re-charged whenever there is power available. Of course if you want to have the battery soley for your own use you will probably have to pay a premium for that " luxury".
One thing is certain the govt will have to raise revenue from the EV car parc just as they do from the ICE car parc.
Cheers,
Tony
Obviously it would be better if the government simply found a way to rebalance taxation away from regressive consumption taxes and onto, say, income. Assuming we leave the EU, cross-border taxation of multinationals selling to UK residents should help somewhat, of course.In addition your EV car battery could be part of the national power reserve and can act as a battery reserve to be drawn on as and when required by the network and can be re-charged whenever there is power available. Of course if you want to have the battery soley for your own use you will probably have to pay a premium for that " luxury".
One thing is certain the govt will have to raise revenue from the EV car parc just as they do from the ICE car parc.
Cheers,
Tony
skwdenyer said:
Evanivitch said:
Burwood said:
The tech is there to differentiate between an EV charger drawing power and normal household use. That’s the idea.
You can just plug them into standard wall sockets... 2kW charging overnight would meet most people's needs.
Burwood said:
skwdenyer said:
Evanivitch said:
Burwood said:
The tech is there to differentiate between an EV charger drawing power and normal household use. That’s the idea.
You can just plug them into standard wall sockets... 2kW charging overnight would meet most people's needs.Of course, you might be able to defeat that technology though it wouldn’t be hard to monitor that.
Whatever, one way or another the tax will be levied. As certain as death, to paraphrase the old saw.
REALIST123 said:
I should think it would be relatively easy to legislate EVs to ‘inform’ a smart meter that it is what’s being charged.
Of course, you might be able to defeat that technology though it wouldn’t be hard to monitor that.
Whatever, one way or another the tax will be levied. As certain as death, to paraphrase the old saw.
For someone with your profile name, some of your suggestions are a tad fanciful. Electricity is fungible and it being easy to get a car to communicate with the meter is technically simply, practically light years away when it would require every meter point in the country to change and a complete new universal standard to be adoptedOf course, you might be able to defeat that technology though it wouldn’t be hard to monitor that.
Whatever, one way or another the tax will be levied. As certain as death, to paraphrase the old saw.
And if you can do all that you’d not bother with any communication between car and electricity meter or applying some intricate measurement of load that can differentiate between a hot tub and a car, you’d just get the car to report how much is used mixed with gps which reports which roads it’s been on, or just install a road tag, and electronic tax disc, like the M6toll or paege on the continent.
Heres Johnny said:
For someone with your profile name, some of your suggestions are a tad fanciful. Electricity is fungible and it being easy to get a car to communicate with the meter is technically simply, practically light years away when it would require every meter point in the country to change and a complete new universal standard to be adopted
And if you can do all that you’d not bother with any communication between car and electricity meter or applying some intricate measurement of load that can differentiate between a hot tub and a car, you’d just get the car to report how much is used mixed with gps which reports which roads it’s been on, or just install a road tag, and electronic tax disc, like the M6toll or paege on the continent.
His suggestions aren't fanciful, you're just not thinking long term. If EV's are going to be mass adopted and used going forward for personal transport for decades to come its not difficult to think of a longer term roll out of home charging solutions that will monitor energy use by Electric cars and apply some new tax to that energy to make up for the loss in revenue from fuel duty.And if you can do all that you’d not bother with any communication between car and electricity meter or applying some intricate measurement of load that can differentiate between a hot tub and a car, you’d just get the car to report how much is used mixed with gps which reports which roads it’s been on, or just install a road tag, and electronic tax disc, like the M6toll or paege on the continent.
I'd agree it's not the only option though, road pricing could also be used to regain that fuel duty.
If you're thinking just of the next 5,10 years then maybe you would consider the first option fanciful. When government needs to take money from the people changes can and will be pushed through to make it happen.
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