Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
It is a huge challenge for Tesla to ramp up the production for the Model 3, to get it to market in good time before the mainstream manufacturers catch up, while maintaining quality control. There have already been delays, but they are doing a good PR job by launching more new models such as the headline grabbing Roadster to divert attention!
Long term it depends if they can retain brand desirability - for which they will probably have to stay ahead of the game, but that could be difficult with the EV and autonomous tech maturing.
Long term it depends if they can retain brand desirability - for which they will probably have to stay ahead of the game, but that could be difficult with the EV and autonomous tech maturing.
Model 3 is important for another reason: Model S and Model X are just so damn big.
That's great if you're in North America. However, there are many parts of Europe and Asia where size limits what you can buy.
To paraphrase a cliché, it's not about length but width- Model S and Model X are just too wide for some places. Model 3 will be a game changer for those people.
Throw in tax incentives around the world, a lower purchase price and room for a family, and Model 3 ought to be the car that tips things in Tesla's favour. They just need to get to that point.
I think they will.
As for people who don't like Teslas, that's OK. They're still doing good things for you. Without the MX5 back in the late 80's giving the soft top market a shot in the arm, I bet we wouldn't have had the Honda S2000, the Lotus Elise, the Porsche Boxster (to name a few). Other companies will produce great cars in response to competition from Tesla, and we will be the beneficiaries of that.
Not sure I fancy a Model 3, or a Model anything for now. But there will be something I do like coming along in 10 years.
That's great if you're in North America. However, there are many parts of Europe and Asia where size limits what you can buy.
To paraphrase a cliché, it's not about length but width- Model S and Model X are just too wide for some places. Model 3 will be a game changer for those people.
Throw in tax incentives around the world, a lower purchase price and room for a family, and Model 3 ought to be the car that tips things in Tesla's favour. They just need to get to that point.
I think they will.
As for people who don't like Teslas, that's OK. They're still doing good things for you. Without the MX5 back in the late 80's giving the soft top market a shot in the arm, I bet we wouldn't have had the Honda S2000, the Lotus Elise, the Porsche Boxster (to name a few). Other companies will produce great cars in response to competition from Tesla, and we will be the beneficiaries of that.
Not sure I fancy a Model 3, or a Model anything for now. But there will be something I do like coming along in 10 years.
gangzoom said:
I don't understand all the moaning about width/size or S/X. Ours fit the garage fine 
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Tsk, that's the worst "I've got a Tesla in my garage" post I've seen. .
Nice car.
It's clearly no HGV in terms of width but it's not a small car. A smaller/narrower model will broaden Tesla's reach/market.
Welshbeef said:
johnnyreggae said:
Welshbeef said:
It is the perfect commuting car IMHO.
Sixty or seventy grand to carry one person a few miles - may I beg to differ on this Just been looking at the numbers for Tesla. They are in a bad way. Never knew they were so close to the wire financially. They are a big outfit and they have put a lot of money into production so I just hope they scrape through. Does make me a bit worried about my model 3 deposit but for a grand I think I will take that chance and back them on this as its just not like anything anyone else is doing.
.
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red_slr said:
Just been looking at the numbers for Tesla. They are in a bad way. Never knew they were so close to the wire financially.
Don't worry Tesla has been predicted to fail in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. I'm pretty sure people will continue to expect them to fail in 2018, 2019, 2020.The fact is whilst the like of Audi keeps on talking about EVs people will want to own Tesla are one of the few companies that have delivered.
We've had a Model X since March, depsite working 6 miles from work we've now hit 10K miles in a X last week. For all the haters Tesla have no one can deny they have produced one of the best cars on this planet.
Ultimately for people on this forum one major worry about EVs is an lack of engagement/soul etc. All I can speak for is my own experience having owned a DC2 Teg, 350Z, 335i. For pure smiles per mile the X beats all of them without trying.
Any car that makes you stop in a layby on a cold Sunday morning just so you can admire it/take photos is my definition of enjoyment (note the X does fit down a small British B road with no issues;)). I cannot wait to try a Model 3, 1 ton lighter hopefully similar amount of power.....2020 cannot come quickly enough
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red_slr said:
Just been looking at the numbers for Tesla. They are in a bad way. Never knew they were so close to the wire financially. They are a big outfit and they have put a lot of money into production so I just hope they scrape through. Does make me a bit worried about my model 3 deposit but for a grand I think I will take that chance and back them on this as its just not like anything anyone else is doing.
.
Don't read this then:.
The shorts are sharpening their knives:
https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4122890-tesla...
Will they make a killing or stab themselves in the foot?
It's a very one sided account and the chap obviously has an axe to grind. But some interesting stats.
It's all about the funding - a bit like Roadrunner and Wile E Coyote running off the cliff. Roadrunner doesn't look down and sails across. Wile E Coyote stops and falls. If Musk can keep going until Model 3 is pumping out and his cashflows improve, he's golden. Right now, with a $53billion market cap, I think people will fund him till he gets there.
Meep, meep.
gangzoom said:
red_slr said:
Just been looking at the numbers for Tesla. They are in a bad way. Never knew they were so close to the wire financially.
Don't worry Tesla has been predicted to fail in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. I'm pretty sure people will continue to expect them to fail in 2018, 2019, 2020.The fact is whilst the like of Audi keeps on talking about EVs people will want to own Tesla are one of the few companies that have delivered.
We've had a Model X since March, depsite working 6 miles from work we've now hit 10K miles in a X last week. For all the haters Tesla have no one can deny they have produced one of the best cars on this planet.
Ultimately for people on this forum one major worry about EVs is an lack of engagement/soul etc. All I can speak for is my own experience having owned a DC2 Teg, 350Z, 335i. For pure smiles per mile the X beats all of them without trying.
Any car that makes you stop in a layby on a cold Sunday morning just so you can admire it/take photos is my definition of enjoyment (note the X does fit down a small British B road with no issues;)). I cannot wait to try a Model 3, 1 ton lighter hopefully similar amount of power.....2020 cannot come quickly enough
.
AstonZagato said:
red_slr said:
Just been looking at the numbers for Tesla. They are in a bad way. Never knew they were so close to the wire financially. They are a big outfit and they have put a lot of money into production so I just hope they scrape through. Does make me a bit worried about my model 3 deposit but for a grand I think I will take that chance and back them on this as its just not like anything anyone else is doing.
.
Don't read this then:.
The shorts are sharpening their knives:
https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4122890-tesla...
Will they make a killing or stab themselves in the foot?
It's a very one sided account and the chap obviously has an axe to grind. But some interesting stats.
It's all about the funding - a bit like Roadrunner and Wile E Coyote running off the cliff. Roadrunner doesn't look down and sails across. Wile E Coyote stops and falls. If Musk can keep going until Model 3 is pumping out and his cashflows improve, he's golden. Right now, with a $53billion market cap, I think people will fund him till he gets there.
Meep, meep.
Basically echoing The Economist article posted previously.
Tesla is furiously spanking other people's money while racking up huge debts, huge inventory and huge financial losses.
It will almost certainly end in tears.
Depends if you think they are making cars or in a "land grab". If it is the latter, then trying to get an unattainable lead on their competitor makes sense. It is currently possible because others such as Amazon have trodden that path and won. But Amazon also lost 95% of its value in 2000-2003. Investors seem to have forgotten that (there's an old saying that there are two types of investors: those with short memories; and those with none).
Uber lost $1-2 billion in Q3 2017, losing marketshare to Lyft, and growth slowing. Looks precarious, as predicted.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-results/ub...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-results/ub...
AstonZagato said:
Depends if you think they are making cars or in a "land grab". If it is the latter, then trying to get an unattainable lead on their competitor makes sense. It is currently possible because others such as Amazon have trodden that path and won. But Amazon also lost 95% of its value in 2000-2003. Investors seem to have forgotten that (there's an old saying that there are two types of investors: those with short memories; and those with none).
Amazon's online store is still losing money today.That's an odd comment. I don't think anyone has wanted them to fail.
I've bought a Tesla so the last thing I want to happen is that the company isn't around to honour my warranty and produce spare parts.
I'm also an investor in Tesla.
But there is a question about whether they can survive - I think you'd have to be very stupid to not see that as a risk. It is always best to test your assumptions and listen to the counter-arguments.
One thing that fascinates me is that the Tesla cheerleaders are almost cult-like in their refusal to countenance anything but the best possible outcome.
I've bought a Tesla so the last thing I want to happen is that the company isn't around to honour my warranty and produce spare parts.
I'm also an investor in Tesla.
But there is a question about whether they can survive - I think you'd have to be very stupid to not see that as a risk. It is always best to test your assumptions and listen to the counter-arguments.
One thing that fascinates me is that the Tesla cheerleaders are almost cult-like in their refusal to countenance anything but the best possible outcome.
Yipper said:
Amazon's online store is still losing money today.
Yipper (and the others like you) I have a question - DO you want Tesla to fail? You all seem very excited with the prospect of people that have never made a thing in their lives shorting the stock. You seem delighted over very little bit of negativity.
My guess is that in "real" life you're losers but I'm interested if it extends beyond primaeval hatred of the new or different.
Tesla are gifting, not selling.
Anyone can take a Merc, bolt some Panasonic batteries on the side, and spank billions of other people's money on it.
Anyone who has been to Silicon Valley in recent months will have heard the phrase...
"Elon can make everything but a profit"...
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