Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

[RobDickinson]

Incredibly you just buy carbon ceramic brakes from brembo.

https://www.brembo.com/en/car/original-equipment/p...

I'm sure they will be on the plaid model S when its sold.

[hyphen]

Some Gump said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29089178/tesla-...

Car and driver reporting that the tesla was running ps2's.

Ps2's are NOT slicks. If that lap was on ps2's then that pisses on porche's chips quite significantly... There should be no doubt that anything Porsche do at the ring would be on the edge if road legal tyres sothat would be quite like for like...

Wrong.

The german mag says an unknown variation of Goodyear tyres, just noticed Pistonheads have also covered it and for once they actually add something

PH said:

The most interesting change in that vain, though, is in the tyres, which look to be near-slick prototype Goodyears... Moreover, they're believed to be the Eagle F1 Supersport RS tyres that aren't even yet on sale

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1831593

[hyphen]

skwdenyer said:

This model (that with the "Plaid" underpinnings) is specifically developed as a driving machine. It has been tuned at Laguna Seca. It is not the same machine as the regular S. That said, the S' fundamentals (decent suspension, low CoG, wide track, etc.) mean it isn't hard to imagine it as a proper sports saloon.

But still, 20 seconds? And they are building the Plaid at what target retail price? £80k and expectation that it will be sold in small numbers? So only so much they can spend on its development.

Good timing though, both Taycan and his Paedo case being quietened by Tesla success.

Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 17th September 21:32

[EddieSteadyGo]

hyphen said:

But still, 20 seconds? And they are building the Plaid at what target retail price? £80k and expectation that it will be sold in small numbers? So only so much they can spend on its development.

I'd guess the target retail price for a 'Plaid' S would be around £130k.

[RobDickinson]

The current performance is 91 grand don't be expecting the plaid for 10k less lol.

[Some Gump]

hyphen said:

Wrong

Clearly lots of inaccuracy / uncertainty. First claim was slicks which are v. Different to treaded. However, whether they are ps2's or eagles IMO they're "edge of legal" and similar. Didn't Porsche office r the RS with ps2 and a disclaimer purely so they could claim ring records in a similar way that e.g the Alfa had a spoiler in the boot to compete in BTCC?





I don't see these tyres as being massively different. Michelin and goodyear (dunlop) compete on a very level pegging in sportscar and prototype racing.

[jamoor]

I think people are in denial about Tesla vs porsche.


The Porsche has launched a car 7 years later that is already beaten by the Tesla in some metrics so why wouldn't an updated one trash the taycan?

[Some Gump]

jamoor said:

I think people are in denial about Tesla vs porsche.


The Porsche has launched a car 7 years later that is already beaten by the Tesla in some metrics so why wouldn't an updated one trash the taycan?

I think that for a lot of people the debate on tesla is polarising to the point they have assumed that either everything they do is good, or everything they do is bad. Some of us are on the fence but the fun on to be had on this thread is simply to pour custard on everything, because the fact to opinion ratio would make most airfix models look large!

At the start is was mainly the tesla zealots massaging believability but in the last month or 2 there are a couple of people on here so anti tesla that it's the other way. Imo both need equal challenging.

Will this new 3motor and special battery version havean rrp equal to the current one? Imo probably not. Have tesla recently demonstrated that they struggle to sell high end things? Imo very much yes. will they improve their current loss making directly from it's release? Peerso ally i doubt it, imo development of Y is so much more important. Does it make this new model non-worthwhile? Now that's the proper question. Audi got cooler when the r8 came out, does it matter if it was overly profitable? (i thnk it was successful but imo it's marketing value >> commercial success of the r8 itself).

Tesla don't advertise in the traditional way. Whatever budget got spent here has to be worth it, because current trend says that by the time this car comes out, it's abilities could have toally, utterly changed downwards and tesla's current fans will overlook it out of brand love.
The important thing is to stop Porsche from sealing the message that they are trying to deliver (that the Taycan is more robust than the s). That they are managing to do so by showing an entirely different car do a similar thing just shows the level of positive bias from people who favour the Tesla brand. Now all they have to do is turn that positivity into actual profit and they're sorted!

[hyphen]

jamoor said:

I think people are in denial about Tesla vs porsche.


The Porsche has launched a car 7 years later that is already beaten by the Tesla in some metrics so why wouldn't an updated one trash the taycan?

Not denial, healthy scepticism.

Because the metric is going around a track, not a drag race or a battery endurance race.

And also they have released unofficial track times, rather than waiting till they do the official lap.

Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 18th September 06:28

[p1stonhead]

Tesla could have beaten the Taycan by an hour, I’d still walk into the Porsche dealer for one over a Model S

[jamoor]

hyphen said:

Not denial, healthy scepticism.

Because the metric is going around a track, not a drag race or a battery endurance race.

And also they have released unofficial track times, rather than waiting till they do the official lap.

Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 18th September 06:28

You demonstrate my point exactly, Tesla can't be faster because Porsche.

[Witchfinder]

So where's the in-car timed lap footage?

[Smiljan]

Witchfinder said:

So where's the in-car timed lap footage?

The only lap times so far are from locals trackside with a stop watch. I don’t think Tesla have actually claimed anything yet regarding the times.

I’m sure they’ll release the footage after it’s all over just like Laguna Seca “record”.

Interesting to see the car changed colour and they’re now using a red one. Wonder if they’re just alternating to allow for charging times and some tweaking.

What I would like to see is a stock roadster Nurburgring time. That’ll be one to watch

[Heres Johnny]

Smiljan said:

Witchfinder said:

So where's the in-car timed lap footage?

Interesting to see the car changed colour and they’re now using a red one.

what.. half way round the lap... explains why you can get a fast lap time

[DonkeyApple]

Some Gump said:

I think that for a lot of people the debate on tesla is polarising to the point they have assumed that either everything they do is good, or everything they do is bad. Some of us are on the fence but the fun on to be had on this thread is simply to pour custard on everything, because the fact to opinion ratio would make most airfix models look large!

At the start is was mainly the tesla zealots massaging believability but in the last month or 2 there are a couple of people on here so anti tesla that it's the other way. Imo both need equal challenging.

Will this new 3motor and special battery version havean rrp equal to the current one? Imo probably not. Have tesla recently demonstrated that they struggle to sell high end things? Imo very much yes. will they improve their current loss making directly from it's release? Peerso ally i doubt it, imo development of Y is so much more important. Does it make this new model non-worthwhile? Now that's the proper question. Audi got cooler when the r8 came out, does it matter if it was overly profitable? (i thnk it was successful but imo it's marketing value >> commercial success of the r8 itself).

Tesla don't advertise in the traditional way. Whatever budget got spent here has to be worth it, because current trend says that by the time this car comes out, it's abilities could have toally, utterly changed downwards and tesla's current fans will overlook it out of brand love.
The important thing is to stop Porsche from sealing the message that they are trying to deliver (that the Taycan is more robust than the s). That they are managing to do so by showing an entirely different car do a similar thing just shows the level of positive bias from people who favour the Tesla brand. Now all they have to do is turn that positivity into actual profit and they're sorted!

Yup, I think a revamp of the drivetrain in the premium models is a smarter move than a revamp of the skin as a means to rekindle growth. Sales in the S and X plateaued years ago but the recent fall from that level has not helped the company by any means and I think that if anything will help rekindle demand and also put a bigger difference between the premium models and the base ones for the masses it’s going to be a funkier drivetrain over a new body kit.

It looks like they’ve also been trying to use free charging offers to entice the wealthy consumer away from the 3 and back to the S and X and that also makes sense.

In the Q3 data I am not sure we will see anything of interest in overall delivery data but where the interesting data may well lie is down in the detail and how many wealthy consumers they have attracted over the base level ones who just want a basic Tesla product. And cleverly they have also added an escape route if S and X orders haven’t recovered in Q3 as everyone is clearly waiting for the new drivetrain now.

G3 and the Y aren’t going to add much in Q3 as I think all we expect is for Tesla to say that both are all going well and on or ahead of target. Although as G3 is going to be delivering product to market within Q4 you would expect a little update on the fitting out and staffing.

Maybe there will be an update on autonomy bit that doesn’t seem too likely. But it is important as every model 3 being sold will be worth between $100-$200,000 by the Q4 2020 so knowing who will actually own these cars at that point in time is actually rather important. As a car company that just sells cars what Tesla has over all its other peers is the massive differentiator that rather than its cars falling 30% in value over 2/3 years, Tesla’s cars will appreciate in value by over 300%. This means that as a stock holder you don’t want these cars that are currently rolling off the production line to be owned by the people who will be driving them, you don’t want them to benefit from this uplift at the end of next year. You need to get them out on lease deals so that their ownership remains on your balance sheet so that in 12 months time the 1 million robo taxis add that $100,000,000,000 of tangible value to your balance sheet plus, you own all the income revenue going forward. It’s at that point Tesla becomes the most valuable car company on the planet and will crush all the others who are a decade behind in autonomy and will have to buy in the tech from Tesla to stay in business, just becoming satellite sales arms of Tesla.

So given that this time next year over $100bn of value is going to be created, along with very major real cash flows, we probably do want to start getting a picture on which parties are going to be the recipients of this.

The risk is that any day now a vulture fund could be created in order to procure these assets ahead of their uplift in value and rob Tesla of the winnings.

[RobDickinson]

Hollands sales are nuts. Over 1700 model 3s in 7 days making it the best selling car for the year.... But obviously demand problems...


Registrations year to date:

Tesla model 3: 10,000 - starts at €49k

Volkswagen Polo: 9,529 - starts at €13k

Ford Focus: 8,265 - starts at €16k

Top 5 BEVs:

Model 3: 10,000 (40% market share of all BEVs)

Kona: 3,291

Niro: 2,315

eGolf: 2,043

Leaf: 1,939

[DonkeyApple]

RobDickinson said:

Hollands sales are nuts. Over 1700 model 3s in 7 days making it the best selling car for the year.... But obviously demand problems...


Registrations year to date:

Tesla model 3: 10,000 - starts at €49k

Volkswagen Polo: 9,529 - starts at €13k

Ford Focus: 8,265 - starts at €16k

Top 5 BEVs:

Model 3: 10,000 (40% market share of all BEVs)

Kona: 3,291

Niro: 2,315

eGolf: 2,043

Leaf: 1,939

Absolutely. That’s 90,000 units a year for just one small country. That’s about 20% of all new car sales. The demand is insane.

Or maybe we can just add ‘not understanding how boats work’ to your long list.

[RobDickinson]

Do you need your tablets or something?

[DonkeyApple]

RobDickinson said:

Do you need your tablets or something?

Yes, Rob. That’s right. It’s everyone else on planet Earth that requires medication.

[anonymous-user]

If you look at it as a percentage of all car sales in last 20 years, Tesla have sold relatively little. It’s the balanced, informed and healthy way to look at it.