Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
Munter said:
But will it do 300 miles when it's -2 outside, with the heater, lights, wipers on, and a stretch that usually takes 2 hours, but now takes 6 because of the conditions/stuck vehicles, and having to take back roads to get around issues.
300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
As above their will always be exceptions such as yourself that 'need' 300 miles+ of range in a single trip. You must appreciate however that you are very much in the minority? I work from home and travel to numerous customer sites and have never needed that kind of range and I'd say my usage is well above what most people do in their cars?300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
Munter said:
But will it do 300 miles when it's -2 outside, with the heater, lights, wipers on, and a stretch that usually takes 2 hours, but now takes 6 because of the conditions/stuck vehicles, and having to take back roads to get around issues.
300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
When you are stuck in slow moving traffic EV's range increases dramatically unlike ICE's. Peak efficiency is around 25mph IIRC, which is how the Teslz range records in the 6-700 miles on a single charge have been set.300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
Lights wipers etc don't make much difference, just like ICE. Heating does, but again it's not significant (10% possibly). Cold weather will, but it's down to battery management.
300 miles is also an extreme. If that's a requirement then a BEV is not for you. I used to have a 130 mile round trip commute (Maidstone to Watford) and two hours each way was normal. Any more than that you must be paid to drive because you are wasting your life!
Edited by 98elise on Monday 18th November 12:17
ZesPak said:
DonkeyApple said:
How do you fun a fleet of £40k Tesla’s when your average fleet cost is £20k for example? Or if your fleet is almost entirely vans? 
Wait... where is this fleet of 20k cars coming from? I'm not from the UK, but what type of car does 20k give you?Usual silliness, fleet managers would only be looking at bringing in the Model 3 to replace similar options like the BMW 3 Series, Audi A4 where the price difference will obviously be far less. Then the additional cost is often seen to be offset by the good PR it generates and the reduction in fuel costs to the business.
98elise said:
Munter said:
But will it do 300 miles when it's -2 outside, with the heater, lights, wipers on, and a stretch that usually takes 2 hours, but now takes 6 because of the conditions/stuck vehicles, and having to take back roads to get around issues.
300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
When you are stuck in slow moving traffic EV's range increases dramatically unlike ICE's. Peak efficiency is around 25mph IIRC, which is how the Teslz range records in the 6-700 miles on a single charge have been set.300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
Lights wipers etc don't make much difference, just like ICE. Heating does, but again it's not significant (10% possibly). Cold weather will, but it's down to battery management.
300 miles is also an extreme. If that's a requirement then a BEV is not for you. I used to have a 130 mile round trip commute (Maidstone to Watford) and two hours each way was normal. Any more than that you must be paid to drive because you are wasting your life!
Edited by 98elise on Monday 18th November 12:17
dmsims said:
But it won't be just Tesla's and the bigger vans are coming for the fleet market.
Also for some companies do not underestimate the value of virtue signalling
Absolutely but that has to be traded off by the ability to lease and manage a fleet day to day and this is where some firms have a clear edge. One firm can supply ICE, hybrid and EVs to a fleet, all at rock bottom leasing and fully maintain the fleet efficiently. Whereas a pure EV manufacturer with weak leasing and weak support is on the back foot in this regard. Also for some companies do not underestimate the value of virtue signalling
I think Tesla will do well out of the £40k+ private company market but I can’t see them breaking into the actual fleet market any time soon nor the commercial vehicle market.
I think the BIK changes are a big thing for hybrids and EVs but not seeing it as a huge gain for Tesla.
SWoll said:
Munter said:
But will it do 300 miles when it's -2 outside, with the heater, lights, wipers on, and a stretch that usually takes 2 hours, but now takes 6 because of the conditions/stuck vehicles, and having to take back roads to get around issues.
300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
As above their will always be exceptions such as yourself that 'need' 300 miles+ of range in a single trip. You must appreciate however that you are very much in the minority? I work from home and travel to numerous customer sites and have never needed that kind of range and I'd say my usage is well above what most people do in their cars?300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
They work best for people in a "Goldilocks" zone. That zone has grown. But it's still not everybody.
There are plenty of people who will, once or twice this week, get in the car when it's cold and dark at 06:00 drive 2-3 hours, park somewhere that doesn't have a charger, spend the day at that location/fly away for the week, then drive 2-3 hours home in the cold and dark. Sure it might be 1 in a few hundred of us. But we're out there and the numbers for "what range has it got in the worst conditions", don't seem to be high on the list of promotional values.
I'd love a Model3 or similar. But if I'm going to commit to 3 or 4 years finance, or £40-50K in cash on a car, I need to be sure it's going to do the job on the worst day of the year when everything has gone tits up. I still don't see numbers to convince me of that.
So it grates a bit when people are trying to convince us all, it'll work for everybody.
Munter said:
I accept it. But it appears some other posters were edging as close to saying "EVs work for everybody all the time" as they could without saying it. But it's clearly not true.
They work best for people in a "Goldilocks" zone. That zone has grown. But it's still not everybody.
There are plenty of people who will, once or twice this week, get in the car when it's cold and dark at 06:00 drive 2-3 hours, park somewhere that doesn't have a charger, spend the day at that location/fly away for the week, then drive 2-3 hours home in the cold and dark. Sure it might be 1 in a few hundred of us. But we're out there and the numbers for "what range has it got in the worst conditions", don't seem to be high on the list of promotional values.
I'd love a Model3 or similar. But if I'm going to commit to 3 or 4 years finance, or £40-50K in cash on a car, I need to be sure it's going to do the job on the worst day of the year when everything has gone tits up. I still don't see numbers to convince me of that.
So it grates a bit when people are trying to convince us all, it'll work for everybody.
range is not an issue for the majority of drivers now with current EVs price and charging for those with no allocated parking are far more of a problemThey work best for people in a "Goldilocks" zone. That zone has grown. But it's still not everybody.
There are plenty of people who will, once or twice this week, get in the car when it's cold and dark at 06:00 drive 2-3 hours, park somewhere that doesn't have a charger, spend the day at that location/fly away for the week, then drive 2-3 hours home in the cold and dark. Sure it might be 1 in a few hundred of us. But we're out there and the numbers for "what range has it got in the worst conditions", don't seem to be high on the list of promotional values.
I'd love a Model3 or similar. But if I'm going to commit to 3 or 4 years finance, or £40-50K in cash on a car, I need to be sure it's going to do the job on the worst day of the year when everything has gone tits up. I still don't see numbers to convince me of that.
So it grates a bit when people are trying to convince us all, it'll work for everybody.
a Tesla would easily do you scenario, dont forget you can power them off
Dave Hedgehog said:
range is not an issue for the majority of drivers now with current EVs price and charging for those with no allocated parking are far more of a problem
a Tesla would easily do you scenario, dont forget you can power them off
Average new car acquisition price in the UK is under £15k. It gets towards £20k for the crossover segment but it shows quite clearly that price still plays a huge role in the choice of whether to get an EV or not. a Tesla would easily do you scenario, dont forget you can power them off
Obviously, on PH, dropping £40k+ for a Tesla is done without a second thought but everyone here is wealthy beyond avarice, has an extreme need for the latest gadget and will never be in a situation where an EV isn’t the perfect answer but for the masses it still is not the case.
This is somewhat highlighted by the situation that EVs are only being bought where there are significant incentives to overcome the inefficiency of the product.
That will change and BIK will help considerably but we are not there yet and won’t be for some time to come.
Munter said:
But will it do 300 miles when it's -2 outside, with the heater, lights, wipers on, and a stretch that usually takes 2 hours, but now takes 6 because of the conditions/stuck vehicles, and having to take back roads to get around issues.
300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
The BMW won't!300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
By far the most stranded car the other snowy year were the rear drive ones. I get your point though - what will the range of an EV be in winter with all the bits on? I'm guessing 10% less? Still enough for most.
Some Gump said:
Munter said:
But will it do 300 miles when it's -2 outside, with the heater, lights, wipers on, and a stretch that usually takes 2 hours, but now takes 6 because of the conditions/stuck vehicles, and having to take back roads to get around issues.
300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
The BMW won't!300 miles on a good day doesn't really matter. Can it do 300 miles on the worst day, when you just want to get home asap.
By far the most stranded car the other snowy year were the rear drive ones. I get your point though - what will the range of an EV be in winter with all the bits on? I'm guessing 10% less? Still enough for most.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Munter said:
I accept it. But it appears some other posters were edging as close to saying "EVs work for everybody all the time" as they could without saying it. But it's clearly not true.
They work best for people in a "Goldilocks" zone. That zone has grown. But it's still not everybody.
There are plenty of people who will, once or twice this week, get in the car when it's cold and dark at 06:00 drive 2-3 hours, park somewhere that doesn't have a charger, spend the day at that location/fly away for the week, then drive 2-3 hours home in the cold and dark. Sure it might be 1 in a few hundred of us. But we're out there and the numbers for "what range has it got in the worst conditions", don't seem to be high on the list of promotional values.
I'd love a Model3 or similar. But if I'm going to commit to 3 or 4 years finance, or £40-50K in cash on a car, I need to be sure it's going to do the job on the worst day of the year when everything has gone tits up. I still don't see numbers to convince me of that.
So it grates a bit when people are trying to convince us all, it'll work for everybody.
Stop talking sense on PH! They work best for people in a "Goldilocks" zone. That zone has grown. But it's still not everybody.
There are plenty of people who will, once or twice this week, get in the car when it's cold and dark at 06:00 drive 2-3 hours, park somewhere that doesn't have a charger, spend the day at that location/fly away for the week, then drive 2-3 hours home in the cold and dark. Sure it might be 1 in a few hundred of us. But we're out there and the numbers for "what range has it got in the worst conditions", don't seem to be high on the list of promotional values.
I'd love a Model3 or similar. But if I'm going to commit to 3 or 4 years finance, or £40-50K in cash on a car, I need to be sure it's going to do the job on the worst day of the year when everything has gone tits up. I still don't see numbers to convince me of that.
So it grates a bit when people are trying to convince us all, it'll work for everybody.
But it does seem like some of the local Tesla shills don't seem to grasp that one size doesn't fit all...
My longest journeys are every month or so, rather than every week, but they fit your description pretty well!
Tesla on track only for the low end of guidance, but have a genuine plan to hit projected 2 million a year by 2025.
They are doing very well on this plan. Everything else is just noise.
Lots of straw man arguments being thrown around. It’s all nonsense.
Teslas plan has been set in stone for years and they are bang on track.
They are doing very well on this plan. Everything else is just noise.
Lots of straw man arguments being thrown around. It’s all nonsense.
Teslas plan has been set in stone for years and they are bang on track.
Some Gump said:
The BMW won't!
By far the most stranded car the other snowy year were the rear drive ones. I get your point though - what will the range of an EV be in winter with all the bits on? I'm guessing 10% less? Still enough for most.
Probably because most BMW put their snow chains on the front wheels. By far the most stranded car the other snowy year were the rear drive ones. I get your point though - what will the range of an EV be in winter with all the bits on? I'm guessing 10% less? Still enough for most.
EVs should be quite good in the snow as you’d think the computers could apply the power to move away incredibly gently and find whatever traction is available at any of the wheels?
Sambucket said:
Teslas plan has been set in stone for years and they are bang on track.
I've no skin in the game, but interested (and cynical) as to how quickly EVs will be adopted.But really? "Tesla plan has been set in stone"???? When was full FSD going to be released? What happened to the "everyone renting out their car" plan? When did the Model Y become more important than revising the S and X? Remind us all what the planned price for the Model 3 was?
To be clear - I'd be terrified if a company like Tesla had "set their plan in stone" when they're trying to disrupt the industry they've entered. They should be reacting to changing circumstances, and should anticipate that predicting both the pace of change and the industry reaction to it would be near impossible.
As to bang on track, they are no less at risk than they were at the start of the year - as ever, everything is predicated on what they do next - they cannot stand still. It's like watching someone juggling chainsaws - both impressive how long everything has been kept up in the air, but also the constant fear that someone's going to lose a limb.
Tuna said:
I've no skin in the game, but interested (and cynical) as to how quickly EVs will be adopted.
But really? "Tesla plan has been set in stone"???? When was full FSD going to be released? What happened to the "everyone renting out their car" plan? When did the Model Y become more important than revising the S and X? Remind us all what the planned price for the Model 3 was?
To be clear - I'd be terrified if a company like Tesla had "set their plan in stone" when they're trying to disrupt the industry they've entered. They should be reacting to changing circumstances, and should anticipate that predicting both the pace of change and the industry reaction to it would be near impossible.
As to bang on track, they are no less at risk than they were at the start of the year - as ever, everything is predicated on what they do next - they cannot stand still. It's like watching someone juggling chainsaws - both impressive how long everything has been kept up in the air, but also the constant fear that someone's going to lose a limb.
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/master-plan-part-deuxBut really? "Tesla plan has been set in stone"???? When was full FSD going to be released? What happened to the "everyone renting out their car" plan? When did the Model Y become more important than revising the S and X? Remind us all what the planned price for the Model 3 was?
To be clear - I'd be terrified if a company like Tesla had "set their plan in stone" when they're trying to disrupt the industry they've entered. They should be reacting to changing circumstances, and should anticipate that predicting both the pace of change and the industry reaction to it would be near impossible.
As to bang on track, they are no less at risk than they were at the start of the year - as ever, everything is predicated on what they do next - they cannot stand still. It's like watching someone juggling chainsaws - both impressive how long everything has been kept up in the air, but also the constant fear that someone's going to lose a limb.
Parts one and two are written and have been for ages
S and X were only ever meant to fund development of the 3. They served that purpose and SX sales become less consequential to Tesla every passing quarter.
Teslas strategy is to achieve maximum unit volume as quick as possible. Which is why Y is much more important than revising SX.
Yes half of musks promises are moon shots. But ultimately Tesla need to sell cars and they are doing that.
No they won’t ever outsell VAG. But that’s not the plan nor has it ever been the plan. Out side of contrarian forum fights.
Teslas strategy is to achieve maximum unit volume as quick as possible. Which is why Y is much more important than revising SX.
Yes half of musks promises are moon shots. But ultimately Tesla need to sell cars and they are doing that.
No they won’t ever outsell VAG. But that’s not the plan nor has it ever been the plan. Out side of contrarian forum fights.
Dave Hedgehog said:
Munter said:
I accept it. But it appears some other posters were edging as close to saying "EVs work for everybody all the time" as they could without saying it. But it's clearly not true.
They work best for people in a "Goldilocks" zone. That zone has grown. But it's still not everybody.
There are plenty of people who will, once or twice this week, get in the car when it's cold and dark at 06:00 drive 2-3 hours, park somewhere that doesn't have a charger, spend the day at that location/fly away for the week, then drive 2-3 hours home in the cold and dark. Sure it might be 1 in a few hundred of us. But we're out there and the numbers for "what range has it got in the worst conditions", don't seem to be high on the list of promotional values.
I'd love a Model3 or similar. But if I'm going to commit to 3 or 4 years finance, or £40-50K in cash on a car, I need to be sure it's going to do the job on the worst day of the year when everything has gone tits up. I still don't see numbers to convince me of that.
So it grates a bit when people are trying to convince us all, it'll work for everybody.
range is not an issue for the majority of drivers now with current EVs price and charging for those with no allocated parking are far more of a problemThey work best for people in a "Goldilocks" zone. That zone has grown. But it's still not everybody.
There are plenty of people who will, once or twice this week, get in the car when it's cold and dark at 06:00 drive 2-3 hours, park somewhere that doesn't have a charger, spend the day at that location/fly away for the week, then drive 2-3 hours home in the cold and dark. Sure it might be 1 in a few hundred of us. But we're out there and the numbers for "what range has it got in the worst conditions", don't seem to be high on the list of promotional values.
I'd love a Model3 or similar. But if I'm going to commit to 3 or 4 years finance, or £40-50K in cash on a car, I need to be sure it's going to do the job on the worst day of the year when everything has gone tits up. I still don't see numbers to convince me of that.
So it grates a bit when people are trying to convince us all, it'll work for everybody.
a Tesla would easily do you scenario, dont forget you can power them off
Of course I managed it, 6AM to 7:30PM out the house but I wouldn’t want to do that every week or month, I recon an ICE including fuel stop would have been 2 hours less through a combination of no charging and more flexibility in routes. And I think that’s Munters point. It’s not typical but if you’re in the group who sometimes has to do it, it’s a PITA
Heres Johnny said:
Of course I managed it, 6AM to 7:30PM out the house but I wouldn’t want to do that every week or month, I recon an ICE including fuel stop would have been 2 hours less through a combination of no charging and more flexibility in routes. And I think that’s Munters point. It’s not typical but if you’re in the group who sometimes has to do it, it’s a PITA
The Lexus will do 380 miles at lane 3 Mway speeds and still have over 100 miles of range in reserve regardless of rain/wind/cold.One of us does that kind of trip once a couple of months, taking the combustion car which including these trips averages 5k a year. Total mileage per year means little in regards to long work trips.
Add in the need to pick up sprogglings by 6pm latest, which we've had to do post long work day trip when one of us was away at the same time. Our £70k+ EV is sometimes as useful as a door stop!!
Yet Evglanicals will tell you range doesnt matter, every EV will hit their rated range with no issues, and everyone should get EVs without a second thought, its utter rubbish.
For the cost, the additional hassle of owning an EV is sometimes just not needed. I feel sorry for Model 3 owners who have bought these cars as bussiness tools, if you're hammering up the Mways for time sensitive trips for your bread and butter, EV ownership is painful, a self charging hybrid from Toyota/Lexus will give diesel efficiency without the guilt of using tractor fuel.
Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 19th November 03:49
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