Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

[Witchfinder]

The majority of those people could probably have charged at home. Remember the fuel protests of the 2000s, and the queues, panic buying, and shortages?

[jamoor]

Witchfinder said:

The majority of those people could probably have charged at home. Remember the fuel protests of the 2000s, and the queues, panic buying, and shortages?

While on a journey?

[Witchfinder]

jamoor said:

While on a journey?

I'm guess *some* of them were on a road trip. What is it, the great migration?

[jamoor]

Witchfinder said:

I'm guess *some* of them were on a road trip. What is it, the great migration?

Never go to China during New Years 😅

[Lt. Coulomb]

Sambucket said:

Even an ev in Poland which burns mostly coal has lower lifecycle co2 than an IcE, well to pump to wheel.

Are you sure about that? 700g/kWh is brutal.

[Some Gump]

jamoor said:

Those parts aren’t expensive and should be easy to replace, if the car isn’t worth £800 then it will be worth replacing.

It’s the engine and ancillaries which cost the most to repair usually,

In my experience it isn't.
Suspension. Braking system. The source of all the big costs to date on my current cars (boxster had for 12 years, rs4 had for 6).

Here's hoping this post doesn't cause me to chuck a big engine bill out of karma

[jjwilde]

So this says Tesla3 is the best selling car in the Netherlands of 2019, I'm not sure if it means the best selling car in the last few months or the whole year, but that's quite an achievement. Imagine if it was the best selling car in the UK and what a mad situation that would be.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/05/tesla-biggest-marke...

[jamoor]

Some Gump said:

jamoor said:

Those parts aren’t expensive and should be easy to replace, if the car isn’t worth £800 then it will be worth replacing.

It’s the engine and ancillaries which cost the most to repair usually,

In my experience it isn't.
Suspension. Braking system. The source of all the big costs to date on my current cars (boxster had for 12 years, rs4 had for 6).

Here's hoping this post doesn't cause me to chuck a big engine bill out of karma

Do either of these cars have a scene tax of sorts?

I can't see what could be expensive in a braking system, as discs and pads are cheap for 99% of cars, and can be replaced with minimal labour.
Suspension parts are also generally cheap.

[jamoor]

jjwilde said:

So this says Tesla3 is the best selling car in the Netherlands of 2019, I'm not sure if it means the best selling car in the last few months or the whole year, but that's quite an achievement. Imagine if it was the best selling car in the UK and what a mad situation that would be.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/05/tesla-biggest-marke...

That's 140 a day.

Is it at the expense of another manufacturer or where are these sales coming from?

[hyphen]

jamoor said:

jjwilde said:

So this says Tesla3 is the best selling car in the Netherlands of 2019, I'm not sure if it means the best selling car in the last few months or the whole year, but that's quite an achievement. Imagine if it was the best selling car in the UK and what a mad situation that would be.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/05/tesla-biggest-marke...

That's 140 a day.

Is it at the expense of another manufacturer or where are these sales coming from?

Dutch Governments interference.

[Throttle Body]

Lt. Coulomb said:

Sambucket said:

Even an ev in Poland which burns mostly coal has lower lifecycle co2 than an IcE, well to pump to wheel.

Are you sure about that? 700g/kWh is brutal.

I don't think the Poland stat can be true. They burn the most nastily polluting brown coal there, just like the Germans do. I don't think that any other power source can be as polluting as that.

[Mikehig]

<< I don't think that any other power source can be as polluting as that. >>

Biomass emissions from power plants like Drax are about the same, if not a bit higher, and with greater habitat destruction.

[anonymous-user]

Throttle Body said:

Lt. Coulomb said:

Sambucket said:

Even an ev in Poland which burns mostly coal has lower lifecycle co2 than an IcE, well to pump to wheel.

Are you sure about that? 700g/kWh is brutal.

I don't think the Poland stat can be true. They burn the most nastily polluting brown coal there, just like the Germans do. I don't think that any other power source can be as polluting as that.

I personally think local emissions are much more important than CO2, but as requested, the source.

[Gandahar]

Talking of China, and perhaps more relevant to this thread, what's going on with GF3 ?

They made the factory double quick, got the cars being prototyped and got the manufacturing permit in November.

Now no sales agreement ->


https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-builds-up-model-3-...


After the USA gave backing to pro democracy in Hong Kong and then gave a well deserved backing to Uyghurs as well I wonder if this slight delay might be politically motivated.

When they do start selling it remains to be seen how national sentiment weighs on Tesla sales.

Edited by Gandahar on Friday 6th December 00:34

[Mikehig]

That's an interesting chart Sambucket; thanks.

Doing some rough guesstimating based, a Tesla averaging 6 km/kWh would always beat diesel, and by a distance in most countries. However an I-Pace at about 4 km/kWh would be about the same as diesel in Germany and worse in Poland.

On the EU average a diesel would have to get down to less than 50 g/km to match a Tesla.

However the chart does use the national average figures. In most countries the CO2 intensity rises as the electricity demand increases. So it would be a more realistic comparison to show the equivalent figures for incremental demand which is supplied by gas and/or coal power: they will be much closer.

[Tuna]

Sambucket said:

I personally think local emissions are much more important than CO2, but as requested, the source.

That's very odd.... why does the legend under the diesel bar say 120g CO2/km (which agrees with the EU estimate of 121g CO2/km https://www.eea.europa.eu/highlights/average-co2-e... yet the bar shows a value of 163g - completely distorting the figure??

One unfortunate side effect of the pro-EV rules is that car manufacturers have much less incentive to reduce ICE emissions, as they can better meet the new requirements by adding EVs in targeted niches. We saw the same effect when Aston Martin introduced the iQ to their range.

[dmsims]

Tuna said:

That's very odd.... why does the legend under the diesel bar say 120g CO2/km (which agrees with the EU estimate of 121g CO2/km https://www.eea.europa.eu/highlights/average-co2-e... yet the bar shows a value of 163g - completely distorting the figure??

Because they are 2 different things!

[Lt. Coulomb]

Tuna said:

One unfortunate side effect of the pro-EV rules is that car manufacturers have much less incentive to reduce ICE emissions, as they can better meet the new requirements by adding EVs in targeted niches. We saw the same effect when Aston Martin introduced the iQ to their range.

ICE is a dead end.

[hyphen]

Lt. Coulomb said:

Tuna said:

One unfortunate side effect of the pro-EV rules is that car manufacturers have much less incentive to reduce ICE emissions, as they can better meet the new requirements by adding EVs in targeted niches. We saw the same effect when Aston Martin introduced the iQ to their range.

ICE is a dead end.

A dead end in 100 years or more that it's required fossil fuel supplies will last for?

[RichardM5]

Mikehig said:

That's an interesting chart Sambucket; thanks.

Doing some rough guesstimating based, a Tesla averaging 6 km/kWh would always beat diesel, and by a distance in most countries. However an I-Pace at about 4 km/kWh would be about the same as diesel in Germany and worse in Poland.

On the EU average a diesel would have to get down to less than 50 g/km to match a Tesla.

However the chart does use the national average figures. In most countries the CO2 intensity rises as the electricity demand increases. So it would be a more realistic comparison to show the equivalent figures for incremental demand which is supplied by gas and/or coal power: they will be much closer.

Are you factoring in the energy used in extraction, transportation and refinement of diesel/petrol? The energy required just to refine a gallon of petrol is commonly estimated to be in the region of 6kwh.