Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...

[DonkeyApple]

Sambucket said:

Big roll out of new 150kw chargers near me in Scotland. Don’t tell donkey they are 100% free to use without limit!

Not sure what speed that will give. Thinking 600 miles an hour on m3 if it scales.

It’s other peoples’ money, precisely as I said. It’s not their taxpayers. It’s the only way forward as chargers aren’t stand alone commercially viable.

[hyphen]

Sambucket said:

Big roll out of new 150kw chargers near me in Scotland. Don’t tell donkey they are 100% free to use without limit!

Not sure what speed that will give. Thinking 600 miles an hour on m3 if it scales.

When you say "Big rollout" you don't mean a big rollout do you? You mean one150kw and the rest are slower

Can you tell us where your bit of Scotland is? According to the twitter feed of ChargePlace, most recent installations are 7kw.
https://twitter.com/ChargePlaceScot

Edited by hyphen on Monday 16th December 09:38

[anonymous-user]

hyphen said:

As I said, it's not dodging. Governments meddling makes predictions by you and I a waste of time.

Check this out: Congress bill to raise EV subsidy limits from 200 too 600 thousand cars ( so Tesla and GM are back in) and also completely new- tax credits for Used EVs.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/15/tesla-cybertruck-fo...

Which part of posting about Tesla on a Monday morning to avoid work isn’t also a waste of time?

[hyphen]

I'm on hols from any work till 6th Jan

Take it you are not? So let me ask you the same - Which part of posting about Tesla on a Monday morning to avoid work isn’t also a waste of time?

[anonymous-user]

Your on holiday. That’s even worse!

[hyphen]

We can see that you keep avoiding questions

[JD]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mercedes-delays-ele...

[anonymous-user]

I detect the tone on twitter of "tslaq" is getting close to "twitching ring" territory now.

A lot of short sellers starting to feel the burn

Up from 211 (aug 23rd) to 382 (time of writing)

[gangzoom]

How is the Model 3 going to do in China? We will find out soon, but if the Model 3 doesn't sell well, than it might be night night for Tesla, and EVs as a whole....or is Tesla going to be only EV that sells well, like in pretty much every other market?

https://insideevs.com/news/388243/november-2019-by...

[DonkeyApple]

gangzoom said:

How is the Model 3 going to do in China? We will find out soon, but if the Model 3 doesn't sell well, than it might be night night for Tesla, and EVs as a whole....or is Tesla going to be only EV that sells well, like in pretty much every other market?

https://insideevs.com/news/388243/november-2019-by...

There’s no reason to assume it won’t sell well. They’ve understood the importance of mainting price so as to remain premium despite no longer being a luxury import and these should be the first cars that they have built which have a genuine net profit per unit as they will have built the factory properly so as to extract the normal industry efficiencies and costs should be much, much lower.

In terms of Tesla equity going to zero, I suspect that AM is much further down that road currently.

[Gandahar]

DonkeyApple said:

gangzoom said:

How is the Model 3 going to do in China? We will find out soon, but if the Model 3 doesn't sell well, than it might be night night for Tesla, and EVs as a whole....or is Tesla going to be only EV that sells well, like in pretty much every other market?

https://insideevs.com/news/388243/november-2019-by...

There’s no reason to assume it won’t sell well. They’ve understood the importance of mainting price so as to remain premium despite no longer being a luxury import and these should be the first cars that they have built which have a genuine net profit per unit as they will have built the factory properly so as to extract the normal industry efficiencies and costs should be much, much lower.

In terms of Tesla equity going to zero, I suspect that AM is much further down that road currently.

Nice we are still talking about AM. I see a lot in common between share prices for TSLA and AMLL with two small companies upping and downing share wise at the latest tidbit. I think they are very similar in being a small player most likely to be bought out by a big player.

If you look at the profits recently AML made nothing since 2015 and Tesla made nothing either. One is worth $1b on the markets and one is worth $63b , more than Ford or GM.

Why is this? The reason is that the Tesla have been grasped as moving the Apple phenomenon into the car sphere. Now Apple are now the GM or Ford of phones, but the big bet for all Tesla supporters is can Tesla get to become Apple before VW and Toyota etc chew them out.

Or will they end up being a bit player or worse. That is why it is so interesting. Getting back to financial matters I thought the tribal side of this piece very to the point


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-money-manag...

This is very apt just on the money side rather than shooting the breeze on here....

• *******

Tribal investing wars
I know others have strong opinions — positive or negative, bullish or bearish — about Tesla the company, Tesla the stock, and its CEO Elon Musk. Humans, after all, are tribal. Our tribalism goes back to the age of cavemen. Deep in the cave, armed with rocks and sticks, fending off predators, we found comfort that the people around us (our tribe) shared the same animosity toward the lion at the front door.

Tribalism makes complete sense when it comes to family — you want to know that someone will always have your back, no matter what. Even in the workplace, if used strategically, tribalism can unite and motivate employees to create a better product than the competition (the other tribes).

But in investing, tribalism is dangerous to your wealth. When you allow tribalism to impact your thinking, you lose the ability to think independently.

If you own Tesla stock and are in the bull cave, you feel like you are surrounded by Tesla bears who are attacking you. You stick close to your tribe of bulls. You are looking for your views to be constantly confirmed by the braying of your tribe. And they will be. You’ll only hear bullish talking points. Your fellow tribesmen will withhold contradictory evidence and put a positive spin on any negative news.

The same applies for Tesla bears. It is amazing to see how the same Tesla news can be interpreted diametrically oppositely by these tribes. Tesla releases its latest production numbers. The bulls: “Production numbers are screaming to new highs!” The bears: “Sales of the Model 3 may be up, but sales of the profitable, high-margin S and X models are down.” It’s not like unlike watching MSNBC and Fox News analyzing the same news from the White House.

Tribes by definition have an “Us vs. Them” mentality. But here’s the punchline: There is no “them” in investing. It doesn’t matter if you think a stock will go up or down, or you’re convinced that people who hold a different view are your enemy.

• ********

[Gandahar]

gangzoom said:

How is the Model 3 going to do in China? We will find out soon, but if the Model 3 doesn't sell well, than it might be night night for Tesla, and EVs as a whole....or is Tesla going to be only EV that sells well, like in pretty much every other market?

https://insideevs.com/news/388243/november-2019-by...

We will find out later, but not soon. The China sales are just getting off the ground so for next quarter results they won't have not much impact on sales.

Tesla is going to do it's quarterly car sales in early Jan and that is the number to concentrate on. They got just under 100k last quarter and then said they had orders for 110k for this quarter. So lets see on efficiency how many they deliver.

In theory it should be 110k cars this quarter if 100% efficiency. My guess is 99k to 103k.

This just takes in numbers of units rather than gross profit per car, so the mix of 3 and s and x does not matter until their quarterly filings.

Just getting stuff to the buyers house is quite a good old fashioned yardstick though,

[Trophy Husband]

If they produce and continue to produce the Model 3 which I test drove this week it really is a game changer for business users. Base model made my guts drop between 40 and 70.
Musk is the new Henry Ford, using that model, albeit with slightly more options!
5 colours, 2 interior options.
It's genius as far as I can see?
If Tesla don't survive it will ne because of fossil fuel interests, US or otherwise. A bit like tobacco, a actually very much like tobacco!
I'm ordering one for next June.

[Gandahar]

Trophy Husband said:

If they produce and continue to produce the Model 3 which I test drove this week it really is a game changer for business users. Base model made my guts drop between 40 and 70.
Musk is the new Henry Ford, using that model, albeit with slightly more options!
5 colours, 2 interior options.
It's genius as far as I can see?
If Tesla don't survive it will ne because of fossil fuel interests, US or otherwise. A bit like tobacco, a actually very much like tobacco!
I'm ordering one for next June.

another 109 999 posts on here and that 110k barrier is toast !


Business users and their 40 to 70 times to impress the ladies at those wife swapping parties after hours ...

But I'm self imployed and have a cockapoo!

Edited by Gandahar on Tuesday 17th December 19:37

[Trophy Husband]

Gandahar said:

Trophy Husband said:

If they produce and continue to produce the Model 3 which I test drove this week it really is a game changer for business users. Base model made my guts drop between 40 and 70.
Musk is the new Henry Ford, using that model, albeit with slightly more options!
5 colours, 2 interior options.
It's genius as far as I can see?
If Tesla don't survive it will ne because of fossil fuel interests, US or otherwise. A bit like tobacco, a actually very much like tobacco!
I'm ordering one for next June.

another 109 999 posts on here and that 110k barrier is toast !


Business users and their 40 to 70 times to impress the ladies at those wife swapping parties after hours ...

But I'm self imployed and have a cockapoo!

Edited by Gandahar on Tuesday 17th December 19:37

Pardon?
Plus, I have no interest in your sexual preferences. Cockapoo? That's really up to you and not relevant to a discussion about electric cars unless of course you think that Elon is going to make you a self driving dildo which Iwould assume is about number 109,999 on his list of objectives.
Please explain? As currently I'm failing to understand the significance and indeed the meaning of your post.

[hyphen]

Gandahar

[hyphen]

Trophy Husband said:

If they produce and continue to produce the Model 3 which I test drove this week it really is a game changer for business users.

Surely it depends on the type of business user. Many will shy away from EV still due to the charging, time is money and all that.

Plus model 3 isn't luxurious as such, its the budget range at Tesla so anyone senior would want e-tron or S or X. And those who are precious about wanting to be seen as superior to their underlings won't want the same car as them.

Also at a starting price of £42k, will it be over many business users max budget? Remember that others have released petrol hybrids that also qualify for BIK e.g. BMW range is huge: X3 xDrive30e, 330e, 530e, 225xe Active Tourer and X5 xDrive45e.

And that 330eis 0-60 in 6 secs. Long Range Mod3 is 5.1 so not massive.

Trophy Husband said:

5 colours, 2 interior options.
It's genius as far as I can see?

No, its stupid. I was looking at the XC40 brochure the other day, they have 3 trim levels, and different 5 exterior colors for each one i.e. say you had a Model 3 Performance, that would have its own shades of color than the standard Model 3. Now that is clever!

Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 17th December 22:42

[SWoll]

hyphen said:

And that 330eis 0-60 in 6 secs. Long Range Mod3 is 5.1 so not massive.

SR+ is 5.3, LR is 4.4 so quite a difference.

[jamoor]

hyphen said:

Trophy Husband said:

If they produce and continue to produce the Model 3 which I test drove this week it really is a game changer for business users.

Surely it depends on the type of business user. Many will shy away from EV still due to the charging, time is money and all that.

Plus model 3 isn't luxurious as such, its the budget range at Tesla so anyone senior would want e-tron or S or X. And those who are precious about wanting to be seen as superior to their underlings won't want the same car as them.

Also at a starting price of £42k, will it be over many business users max budget? Remember that others have released petrol hybrids that also qualify for BIK e.g. BMW range is huge: X3 xDrive30e, 330e, 530e, 225xe Active Tourer and X5 xDrive45e.

And that 330eis 0-60 in 6 secs. Long Range Mod3 is 5.1 so not massive.

Trophy Husband said:

5 colours, 2 interior options.
It's genius as far as I can see?

No, its stupid. I was looking at the XC40 brochure the other day, they have 3 trim levels, and different 5 exterior colors for each one i.e. say you had a Model 3 Performance, that would have its own shades of color than the standard Model 3. Now that is clever!

Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 17th December 22:42

BMW only have one car that’s suitable for the BIK discount and that’s the i3 I think?


If it‘S a choice between a 3 series and an TM3 the company driver will take the TM3 every time because it will save them £1500+ a year.

[SWoll]

jamoor said:

BMW only have one car that’s suitable for the BIK discount and that’s the i3 I think?


If it‘S a choice between a 3 series and an TM3 the company driver will take the TM3 every time because it will save them £1500+ a year.

if that's true public charging is going to get interesting as any business users covering more than 150-200 miles per day is going to need daily rapid charging or a 7kW home charger at least.

Still think plenty of business users are going to be put off by that despite the BIK saving, especially if their fuel is paid for.