Tesla and Uber Unlikely to Survive...
Discussion
Trophy Husband said:
If they produce and continue to produce the Model 3 which I test drove this week it really is a game changer for business users.
Surely it depends on the type of business user. Many will shy away from EV still due to the charging, time is money and all that.Plus model 3 isn't luxurious as such, its the budget range at Tesla so anyone senior would want e-tron or S or X. And those who are precious about wanting to be seen as superior to their underlings won't want the same car as them.
Also at a starting price of £42k, will it be over many business users max budget? Remember that others have released petrol hybrids that also qualify for BIK e.g. BMW range is huge: X3 xDrive30e, 330e, 530e, 225xe Active Tourer and X5 xDrive45e.
And that 330eis 0-60 in 6 secs. Long Range Mod3 is 5.1 so not massive.
Trophy Husband said:
5 colours, 2 interior options.
It's genius as far as I can see?
No, its stupid. I was looking at the XC40 brochure the other day, they have 3 trim levels, and different 5 exterior colors for each one It's genius as far as I can see?
i.e. say you had a Model 3 Performance, that would have its own shades of color than the standard Model 3. Now that is clever!Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 17th December 22:42
hyphen said:
Trophy Husband said:
If they produce and continue to produce the Model 3 which I test drove this week it really is a game changer for business users.
Surely it depends on the type of business user. Many will shy away from EV still due to the charging, time is money and all that.Plus model 3 isn't luxurious as such, its the budget range at Tesla so anyone senior would want e-tron or S or X. And those who are precious about wanting to be seen as superior to their underlings won't want the same car as them.
Also at a starting price of £42k, will it be over many business users max budget? Remember that others have released petrol hybrids that also qualify for BIK e.g. BMW range is huge: X3 xDrive30e, 330e, 530e, 225xe Active Tourer and X5 xDrive45e.
And that 330eis 0-60 in 6 secs. Long Range Mod3 is 5.1 so not massive.
Trophy Husband said:
5 colours, 2 interior options.
It's genius as far as I can see?
No, its stupid. I was looking at the XC40 brochure the other day, they have 3 trim levels, and different 5 exterior colors for each one It's genius as far as I can see?
i.e. say you had a Model 3 Performance, that would have its own shades of color than the standard Model 3. Now that is clever!Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 17th December 22:42
If it‘S a choice between a 3 series and an TM3 the company driver will take the TM3 every time because it will save them £1500+ a year.
jamoor said:
BMW only have one car that’s suitable for the BIK discount and that’s the i3 I think?
If it‘S a choice between a 3 series and an TM3 the company driver will take the TM3 every time because it will save them £1500+ a year.
if that's true public charging is going to get interesting as any business users covering more than 150-200 miles per day is going to need daily rapid charging or a 7kW home charger at least.If it‘S a choice between a 3 series and an TM3 the company driver will take the TM3 every time because it will save them £1500+ a year.
Still think plenty of business users are going to be put off by that despite the BIK saving, especially if their fuel is paid for.
hyphen said:
Plus model 3 isn't luxurious as such, its the budget range at Tesla so anyone senior would want e-tron or S or X. And those who are precious about wanting to be seen as superior to their underlings won't want the same car as them.
Also at a starting price of £42k, will it be over many business users max budget? Remember that others have released petrol hybrids that also qualify for BIK e.g. BMW range is huge: X3 xDrive30e, 330e, 530e, 225xe Active Tourer and X5 xDrive45e.
And that 330eis 0-60 in 6 secs. Long Range Mod3 is 5.1 so not massive.
That was a rollercoaster!Also at a starting price of £42k, will it be over many business users max budget? Remember that others have released petrol hybrids that also qualify for BIK e.g. BMW range is huge: X3 xDrive30e, 330e, 530e, 225xe Active Tourer and X5 xDrive45e.
And that 330eis 0-60 in 6 secs. Long Range Mod3 is 5.1 so not massive.
So to sum up:
The Model 3 is budget range Tesla so potential buyers will look down on it.
The Model 3 is too expensive for them though.
BMW have a lot more expensive cars you can choose from.
Look at this car BMW have, it's a second more to 60 (a stat that I would usually say doesn't matter but this time the traditional car comes close so we'll mention it), but the BWM is only about 10% more expensive (before options)
ZesPak said:
hyphen said:
Plus model 3 isn't luxurious as such, its the budget range at Tesla so anyone senior would want e-tron or S or X. And those who are precious about wanting to be seen as superior to their underlings won't want the same car as them.
Also at a starting price of £42k, will it be over many business users max budget? Remember that others have released petrol hybrids that also qualify for BIK e.g. BMW range is huge: X3 xDrive30e, 330e, 530e, 225xe Active Tourer and X5 xDrive45e.
And that 330eis 0-60 in 6 secs. Long Range Mod3 is 5.1 so not massive.
That was a rollercoaster!Also at a starting price of £42k, will it be over many business users max budget? Remember that others have released petrol hybrids that also qualify for BIK e.g. BMW range is huge: X3 xDrive30e, 330e, 530e, 225xe Active Tourer and X5 xDrive45e.
And that 330eis 0-60 in 6 secs. Long Range Mod3 is 5.1 so not massive.
So to sum up:
The Model 3 is budget range Tesla so potential buyers will look down on it.
The Model 3 is too expensive for them though.
BMW have a lot more expensive cars you can choose from.
Look at this car BMW have, it's a second more to 60 (a stat that I would usually say doesn't matter but this time the traditional car comes close so we'll mention it), but the BWM is only about 10% more expensive (before options)
Oh, an as mentioned by another poster the only BMW that gets the BIK reduction next year is the i3. Pure EV only I'm afraid, nowt for hybrids.
Edited by SWoll on Tuesday 17th December 23:18
SWoll said:
if that's true public charging is going to get interesting as any business users covering more than 150-200 miles per day is going to need daily rapid charging or a 7kW home charger at least.
Still think plenty of business users are going to be put off by that despite the BIK saving, especially if their fuel is paid for.
Fuel is paid for?Still think plenty of business users are going to be put off by that despite the BIK saving, especially if their fuel is paid for.
I've just checked to see realistic numbers on how much one of these plug in bmws actually cost in tax.
2020 - £958 or £1916 if 40%.
Fuel is either 578 or £1157.
So yeah, a £1500 or £3k saving depending on how much you earn.
I'm pretty sure lots of people that have one as a perk would take notice. if their fuel isn't paid for then the car is ridiculously cheap to run meaning they can use it to go anywhere cheaply which is a massive bonus for them.
jamoor said:
BMW only have one car that’s suitable for the BIK discount and that’s the i3 I think?
Nope, BMW have just launched a whole range of Hybrids. (as long as the motor is industry figures rated to do a certain miles as EV, then its all good).https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/phev.html
I just used a online calculator to compare. Chose 3 series PHEV, Model 3 Performance, 40% tax bracket.
Link: https://tools.zap-map.com/gul/car-tax-calculator/
Granted fuel costs come into it, but on the BIK level...
Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 17th December 23:33
Tries another calc https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/cars/car-tax-calculato...
330phev m sport vs Tesla model 3 Performance. 3 years 30k miles. Says including fuel, 3 series is cheaper.
330phev m sport vs Tesla model 3 Performance. 3 years 30k miles. Says including fuel, 3 series is cheaper.
hyphen said:
Are you really telling me there is only one single type of business user?
No, but the worst argument I've ever heard was "it's the entry level car, they have 100k cars as well".Yes, people look down on the Gallardo and the Ghost. Not to mention those poor Jag XE owners.
The fact that they don't (yet) make a Mercedes A-Class/Audi A3 meant that it's actually a very aspirational Brand.
The 330e you mentioned, at least over here, is way more expensive. And since it's a German premium car, it's not a hard feat to option it up to way past M3P money.
I've driven a Model 3, I've driven previous generation 330e. You can keep your expensive, sluggish dinosaur, anyone who isn't completely stuck on "not a Tesla" just needs one test drive.
What can happen is that because of their network and wider range of cars is that the BMW appears on more lists. But that won't make it less aspirational.
Edit: Why did you feel the need to compare it to the slowest M3 (where it's still 1s slower), but then in terms of cost compare it to the most expensive one? Don't you ever get tired of spreading disinformation like that?
Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 17th December 23:42
hyphen said:
jamoor said:
BMW only have one car that’s suitable for the BIK discount and that’s the i3 I think?
Nope, BMW have just launched a whole range of Hybrids. (as long as the motor is industry figures rated to do a certain miles as EV, then its all good).https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/phev.html
I just used a online calculator to compare. Chose 3 series PHEV, Model 3 Performance, 40% tax bracket.
Link: https://tools.zap-map.com/gul/car-tax-calculator/
Granted fuel costs come into it, but on the BIK level...
Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 17th December 23:33
On this website its different
https://www.nextgreencar.com/company-car-tax/calcu...
On bmws on website they list the 3er as having 37 miles range on a charge
https://discover.bmw.co.uk/campaigns/330e-launch
the BIK is 12% on that type of car https://pod-point.com/guides/business/company-elec...
hyphen said:
Tries another calc https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/cars/car-tax-calculato...
330phev m sport vs Tesla model 3 Performance. 3 years 30k miles. Says including fuel, 3 series is cheaper.
You need to compare the 330e against the SR+ 330phev m sport vs Tesla model 3 Performance. 3 years 30k miles. Says including fuel, 3 series is cheaper.
And the BMW M3 with the Model 3 Performance.
And for the year 2020+
Edited by jamoor on Tuesday 17th December 23:45
SWoll said:
Oh, an as mentioned by another poster the only BMW that gets the BIK reduction next year is the i3. Pure EV only I'm afraid, nowt for hybrids.
Yup, the Europeans are going to let their automotive sectors, who employ millions and are important sectors of their economies, get decimated, giving discounts to the incoming Americans whilst their own companies catch-up ZesPak said:
Edit: Why did you feel the need to compare it to the slowest M3 (where it's still 1s slower), but then in terms of cost compare it to the most expensive one? Don't you ever get tired of spreading disinformation like that?
It's quite obvious he's never had a company car, or even knows anything about it.Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 17th December 23:42
jjwilde said:
So the Tesla share price almost touched a record high today (it may well have gone to a new high, I've not been checking it every hour).
Pretty surprising for a company unlikely to survive
What's driving it? China coming on board is known, Model Y coming in early (on time) is known.Pretty surprising for a company unlikely to survive
So what's new? Your post is pretty pointless without this info you know.
Edited by hyphen on Wednesday 18th December 00:21
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