Discussion
jamiebae said:
The speed at which the technology is developing is destroying RVs for electric cars. Advertised prices are not the prices the cars sell at, some are almost impossible to get rid of (Renault Fluence) and even the fully owned battery stuff is tough to shift because the range is nowhere near what a new car can do.
For some (my wife included) the range of these cars is plenty enough, she's now doing around 4000 miles a year all within a 15 mile radius or so.jamiebae said:
The Zoes are the biggest question mark though, at the moment the vast majority are battery lease cars and PCP returns simply aren't selling, even at sub £4k to the trade. This situation isn't going to improve so Renault will have a tough decision to make - buy them all back and dispose or export, offer owners the chance to buy the battery, or leave it as-is and deal with a lot of pissed off buyers sitting on worthless cars.
The residual value is the biggest hurdle I think, I'm going to monitor the market for a few more months and see what happens. I know an EV makes sense for us from an engineering perspective, I'm just not willing to have one at any cost.Have recently been coming to the same conclusion and this thread has sealed it.
A cheap EV would suit me perfect for work and daily boring stuff.
ETA: and the basic idea of the battery leasing makes sense to me, just all the shenanigans that come with it that ruin it.
A cheap EV would suit me perfect for work and daily boring stuff.
ETA: and the basic idea of the battery leasing makes sense to me, just all the shenanigans that come with it that ruin it.
Edited by DRCAGE on Monday 13th November 17:58
Buying the ZOE new made sense because I could just think of the PCP plus lease together at about £150/mo, which was about right on a 9k car.
At the end of the PCP the cars worth 5-6k but to keep it you need to pay that plus £79/month-ish for 625 miles/month, which is about 40mpg at petrol rates.
It’s unlikely the battery will need attention in the following 2 years the car’s warranty is valid for, so £79/mo is excessive, especially when there’s uncertainty about what happens at the end of the second owner battery lease..
At the end of the PCP the cars worth 5-6k but to keep it you need to pay that plus £79/month-ish for 625 miles/month, which is about 40mpg at petrol rates.
It’s unlikely the battery will need attention in the following 2 years the car’s warranty is valid for, so £79/mo is excessive, especially when there’s uncertainty about what happens at the end of the second owner battery lease..
Thought I'd hijack this thread rather than make a new one. I too am considering a used Zoe, for reasons I shall now discuss. I would appreciate any comments on anything I haven't thought about/whether I'm talking out my arse etc.
I have a commute of approximately 65 miles, NSL A road for a bit then mostly up the M5 very early in the morning when it isn't busy. The way home is much busier and I would have no issues cruising at 60. Charging is available at both of the supermarkets next to where I work- Polar Plus and Pod Point.
Due to SWMBO having a bun in the oven and our desire to buy a house before it evacuates, her car (financed, luckily hasn't depreciated much) shall be sold and the finance settled (small amount of neg eq but should have no issues raising that given a couple of months) and my car (also financed, too much neg eq to get rid of and too little mileage on the PCP for me too keep using) will be going to her, much to her...delight.
So the way I see it is this - I could spend say £1,000 on something like a Volvo V70 D5, put £350+ of fuel in it every month, spend £200 every year taxing it, worry about MOT time, servicing costs, lack of warranty etc. OR I could fund the purchase of a used Zoe (£4,500 ish based on a quick browse on AT) on HP, battery lease, electricity and charge network memberships for a smaller/similar monthly cost (based on some quick calculations). For this, I might have a bit of warranty remaining, the battery would be under warranty, servicing costs would be smaller, brakes would last longer and potentially it would be more likely to pass an MOT.
My questions are as follows:
1. Can the Zoe 22 kWh reliably do 65 miles in all weather?
2. Approx. how much do we think the battery lease would be for 25,000 miles pa? It says on the Renault website that the unlimited mileage lease is unavailable on the 22, but that the mileages given are examples only and quotes can be given for specific mileages.
3. If the above is true, how does one go about setting up the battery lease if buying from a non-Renault dealer?
4. Is there anything I am not thinking about or is this actually a good idea like I think it is?
Any feedback would be appreciated, cheers.
I have a commute of approximately 65 miles, NSL A road for a bit then mostly up the M5 very early in the morning when it isn't busy. The way home is much busier and I would have no issues cruising at 60. Charging is available at both of the supermarkets next to where I work- Polar Plus and Pod Point.
Due to SWMBO having a bun in the oven and our desire to buy a house before it evacuates, her car (financed, luckily hasn't depreciated much) shall be sold and the finance settled (small amount of neg eq but should have no issues raising that given a couple of months) and my car (also financed, too much neg eq to get rid of and too little mileage on the PCP for me too keep using) will be going to her, much to her...delight.
So the way I see it is this - I could spend say £1,000 on something like a Volvo V70 D5, put £350+ of fuel in it every month, spend £200 every year taxing it, worry about MOT time, servicing costs, lack of warranty etc. OR I could fund the purchase of a used Zoe (£4,500 ish based on a quick browse on AT) on HP, battery lease, electricity and charge network memberships for a smaller/similar monthly cost (based on some quick calculations). For this, I might have a bit of warranty remaining, the battery would be under warranty, servicing costs would be smaller, brakes would last longer and potentially it would be more likely to pass an MOT.
My questions are as follows:
1. Can the Zoe 22 kWh reliably do 65 miles in all weather?
2. Approx. how much do we think the battery lease would be for 25,000 miles pa? It says on the Renault website that the unlimited mileage lease is unavailable on the 22, but that the mileages given are examples only and quotes can be given for specific mileages.
3. If the above is true, how does one go about setting up the battery lease if buying from a non-Renault dealer?
4. Is there anything I am not thinking about or is this actually a good idea like I think it is?
Any feedback would be appreciated, cheers.
Jbeale, not had quite your situation, but for what my experience is worth:
We chopped in an aging Zafira family runabout for a Zoe 22 earlier this year. I got a 9 month-old car with 1600 miles (effectively new) for £7,300. That means someone took close to a £10k hit for the first ownership, ouch. Will values drop off a cliff from here? Mebbe. There are plenty for sale on the Renault website at very similar prices to 6 months ago, so it isn't a precipitate decline, but I would agree with earlier posters that the business model still needs some sorting out. I think it's likely that I would want to trade this one in for another Zoe, as it is the best car on the market in this sector, and Renault / Nissan have a hell of a head start on the tech, so it may well not be an issue.
My experience is that the car will do a least 65 miles from a full charge in most weathers - but I haven't tried it in anything sub-5 degrees yet, so bear that in mind. The primary factor influencing it is the speed you want to travel at. A steady 60 will be no problem at all, 70 would be tight, 75 definitely pushing it. I very much doubt you would get 65 miles in freezing temperatures at anything over 60mph, and even that might be a stretch if it's dark, raining, and windy.
Running costs are very low compared to the Zafira. Battery rental is £45 per month for us, and I reckon £15-£20 per month on electricity. Call it £65 per month, about the same as one tank of petrol; we used to fill up three or four times a month. And VED saving, and service consumables are far cheaper, regenerative braking means even brake pads will last longer, etc, etc.
Most importantly, it's a really well sorted, fun little car to drive. Around town and between villages, I think it's great. In the stable I also have an Audi A8, a 996, and a couple of motorbikes, so I don't need it to do everything, but what it does it does very well indeed.
Hope that helps you.
We chopped in an aging Zafira family runabout for a Zoe 22 earlier this year. I got a 9 month-old car with 1600 miles (effectively new) for £7,300. That means someone took close to a £10k hit for the first ownership, ouch. Will values drop off a cliff from here? Mebbe. There are plenty for sale on the Renault website at very similar prices to 6 months ago, so it isn't a precipitate decline, but I would agree with earlier posters that the business model still needs some sorting out. I think it's likely that I would want to trade this one in for another Zoe, as it is the best car on the market in this sector, and Renault / Nissan have a hell of a head start on the tech, so it may well not be an issue.
My experience is that the car will do a least 65 miles from a full charge in most weathers - but I haven't tried it in anything sub-5 degrees yet, so bear that in mind. The primary factor influencing it is the speed you want to travel at. A steady 60 will be no problem at all, 70 would be tight, 75 definitely pushing it. I very much doubt you would get 65 miles in freezing temperatures at anything over 60mph, and even that might be a stretch if it's dark, raining, and windy.
Running costs are very low compared to the Zafira. Battery rental is £45 per month for us, and I reckon £15-£20 per month on electricity. Call it £65 per month, about the same as one tank of petrol; we used to fill up three or four times a month. And VED saving, and service consumables are far cheaper, regenerative braking means even brake pads will last longer, etc, etc.
Most importantly, it's a really well sorted, fun little car to drive. Around town and between villages, I think it's great. In the stable I also have an Audi A8, a 996, and a couple of motorbikes, so I don't need it to do everything, but what it does it does very well indeed.
Hope that helps you.
Andrew, I honestly can't imagine you driving a Zafira, in fact if I had to think of the least 'you' car in the universe that'd be it!
I agree on the Zoe, it's a nicely sorted little thing to drive and quite good fun. It sounds like you did very well price-wise too for a nearly new car!
I agree on the Zoe, it's a nicely sorted little thing to drive and quite good fun. It sounds like you did very well price-wise too for a nearly new car!
jamiebae said:
Andrew, I honestly can't imagine you driving a Zafira, in fact if I had to think of the least 'you' car in the universe that'd be it!
I agree on the Zoe, it's a nicely sorted little thing to drive and quite good fun. It sounds like you did very well price-wise too for a nearly new car!
Hello chap! I agree on the Zoe, it's a nicely sorted little thing to drive and quite good fun. It sounds like you did very well price-wise too for a nearly new car!
The Zaf even did two six-up ski holiday runs to the Alps, which was ballsy for a 1.6!
When buying the Zoe, I asked the sales bloke what the cost of a service would be. "£160", says he. What for, I ask, with no oil, filters, plugs, timing, etc? He had the decency to grin and say "well, we do check the wipers!"
I remember you posted a while ago about how the march of technology was going to change second-hand car ownership: the Zoe is a great example of this. It really is more like a phone than a car in some respects. I've had two occasions when it has told me of a problem, both were solved by turning it off then on again!
ajcj said:
Hello chap!
The Zaf even did two six-up ski holiday runs to the Alps, which was ballsy for a 1.6!
When buying the Zoe, I asked the sales bloke what the cost of a service would be. "£160", says he. What for, I ask, with no oil, filters, plugs, timing, etc? He had the decency to grin and say "well, we do check the wipers!"
I remember you posted a while ago about how the march of technology was going to change second-hand car ownership: the Zoe is a great example of this. It really is more like a phone than a car in some respects. I've had two occasions when it has told me of a problem, both were solved by turning it off then on again!
The Zaf even did two six-up ski holiday runs to the Alps, which was ballsy for a 1.6!
When buying the Zoe, I asked the sales bloke what the cost of a service would be. "£160", says he. What for, I ask, with no oil, filters, plugs, timing, etc? He had the decency to grin and say "well, we do check the wipers!"
I remember you posted a while ago about how the march of technology was going to change second-hand car ownership: the Zoe is a great example of this. It really is more like a phone than a car in some respects. I've had two occasions when it has told me of a problem, both were solved by turning it off then on again!
That is brave in a 1.6 Zafira, I've just come back from a morning skiing and I'm finding my 190bhp BMW 220d a little underpowered for the mountains!
I finally got out of the motor industry a few months ago, but what's very clear even without any inside knowledge is that the vast majority of the UK now buys their cars monthly anyway, and that that I wouldn't have wanted to pay list price with my own money for a Citroen C-Zero! From your perspective, the car was cheap and I'm sure Renault will do something to allow owners to buy out the batteries soon, otherwise they'll be left with very angry customers and a ton of worthless Zoes to recycle in a few years time, not just in the UK but all over Europe.
The economics of battery rental start to look silly as you do more miles, the car ages and others come to market with no lease imo
Environmental benefits are all well and good, but not at any cost (to me)
Having had a Zoe on the bonkers cheap lease deal 3 years ago, the current pricing is nowhere near as compelling
Environmental benefits are all well and good, but not at any cost (to me)
Having had a Zoe on the bonkers cheap lease deal 3 years ago, the current pricing is nowhere near as compelling
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