690 miles in an electric car with a 18 months old :)
Discussion
gangzoom said:
SimonYorkshire said:
It goes without saying that Gangzoom would be unlikely to just so happen to have parked beside a Tesla supercharger during 110000 miles of ice driving, and for same reasons he would be unlikely to have taken all the same routes in an ice car - The Tesla EV will have dictated his routes and where / when / for how long he stopped.
Can you please stop posting BS...Please just stop it. In case you haven't got a kid, or forgotten, any long distance trip in a 18 months old involves plenty of planning, I had no worries about charging it was my daughter who dictated how long/when the stop were. Infact at all the stop the car had finished charging long before we were ready to leave.
As for the route from Leicester to Scotland, unless you know a quicker up, going up the A50/M6/A74 is pretty much the only sane way. We could have gone up the M1/A1 as well but visiting friends in Liverpool dictated the route.
We have now planned a trip to either South France this summer in the Tesla. Yes we will be stopping enroute, yes we will be charging when stopped. But please just stop posting the same old rubbish. I estimate we will hit 20K in our Tesla by next year this time. For us, EVs work perfectly already as the main family car, it's as simple as that
.EVs are the future, I have to say at Blenhiem palace car show this year the EVs fitted in well with the all the classics on show.....and yes we went to Blenhiem palace in our EV, shock horror we didn't stop not because I didn't pass any EV chargers enroute but because trip was short enough for our daughter to sleep through each way (about 90 minutes each way).
Edited by gangzoom on Monday 11th December 18:17
You do have to plan trips with an 18 month old, but it's dubious as to whether baby needs attention exactly when you happen to be adjacent to an EV charging point. And what's this say about EVs for people who don't have to stop regularly due to travelling with a baby? You don't have to look far into your baby argument to realise that you could quite easily stop for 90 minutes in all the same locations in an ice car as where you would be forced to stop for 90 minutes in an EV, baby or not, or to realise that in an ice car you might stop for the same 90 minutes or maybe just stop for 10 minutes in a more scenic spot or a spot closer to the route of your journey... But pleased to read all things dropped into place for you on this trip, what with having to stop with baby just as you passed a supercharger and that your route (what with visiting relatives in Liverpool etc) took you past superchargers. Knowing my luck if I did a 690 mile journey with baby on board, baby wouldn't be ready for waking up just as I reached a supercharger and in fact I probably wouldn't normally pass superchargers anyway, so I think I won't spend £75k on one of the few EVs that could make that trip.
SimonYorkshire said:
so I think I won't spend £75k on one of the few EVs that could make that trip.
And nor should you, spending £75k on ANY car is pretty much financial suicide regardless of what powers it. But am a sucker for tech and love cars, so why the hell not? I certainly didnt buy the Tesla to save money.Price is the single biggest thing holding back EVs. At 200 miles range coupled with a reliable/decent rapid charge network for our use there there is essenitally no compromise even on long distance trips.
I can only speak from my own experience, and regardless of what you might think all I can say is come 2019/20 my wife will also be trading in her car for an EV (probably Model 3) and I cannot wait. We certainly aren't shifting fully to EVs to make our lives harder on purpose,
Over the next few years as prices of 200 mile range EVs will fall, and we'll see just how many families are ready to make the switch like we have.
gangzoom said:
SimonYorkshire said:
It goes without saying that Gangzoom would be unlikely to just so happen to have parked beside a Tesla supercharger during 110000 miles of ice driving, and for same reasons he would be unlikely to have taken all the same routes in an ice car - The Tesla EV will have dictated his routes and where / when / for how long he stopped.
Can you please stop posting BS...Please just stop it. It's like you've never read any of his other posts.
You can't reason somebody out of a position they were never reasoned into.
gangzoom, how did the new beastie cope with the recent snowy weather?
Does it have decent traction with all that torque? I'm assuming it has a traction control system of some description to minimise wheel spin.
Also, I agree there will be an increased take up once 200 mile + real world range becomes common. The real issue that'll need addressing is the number of chargers in service stations (and Tesla superchargers). I don't think the UK suffers from queuing at chargers yet but in the US and Norway this is already an issue in some areas with 30-60 minute waits to get on a charger.
Although 40 weeks of the year I'd probably be ok charging once a week at a local charger off peak (late at night or such) for the longer trips queuing for charging wouldn't be good. If the Model 3 really does take off as predicted this could well become a real issue.
I'm skeptical at the moment about EV's and applaud people who take them on (particularly cars like the Leaf) helping develop better cars for the future but I'm excited to see where we end up in 10 - 20 years time and the move away from fossil fuels can only be a good thing long term.
Does it have decent traction with all that torque? I'm assuming it has a traction control system of some description to minimise wheel spin.
Also, I agree there will be an increased take up once 200 mile + real world range becomes common. The real issue that'll need addressing is the number of chargers in service stations (and Tesla superchargers). I don't think the UK suffers from queuing at chargers yet but in the US and Norway this is already an issue in some areas with 30-60 minute waits to get on a charger.
Although 40 weeks of the year I'd probably be ok charging once a week at a local charger off peak (late at night or such) for the longer trips queuing for charging wouldn't be good. If the Model 3 really does take off as predicted this could well become a real issue.
I'm skeptical at the moment about EV's and applaud people who take them on (particularly cars like the Leaf) helping develop better cars for the future but I'm excited to see where we end up in 10 - 20 years time and the move away from fossil fuels can only be a good thing long term.
Nice wrote up OP, interesting and seems a good fit for your circumstances, I.e. having to stop due anyway with a child.
I have just driven 700km, appx, it took 20 hours, door to door including 10 on the ferry; no stops either side of the ferry, charging would have added hours onto that journey and in this case due to bad weather and a crash I would have missed the departure time.
We can stop, grab , lunch, let the dogs out and refuel in sub-30 mins and I loathe to do that.
EV’s are great for the urban environment and would be perfect for 90% of my journeys, as soon as Honda confirm that Urban concept I’ll be there, but as a long distance method they are just too limiting and everything needs to be planned around charging, I’ll stick to ICE for long distance and look at an EV for shorter work.
Secondly, comparing Tesla’s to any sort of luxury car is a stretch, I was in the big saloon one and it was rubbish inside, all plastic and p-leather, nothing like a S Class / 7 Series; they are far too expensive for what you get and I do think they will struggle once the big players move to industrialise their EV’s.
But, cool car and nice to see someone taking the plunge to help pioneer the future, does the car feedback to Tesla / share information with them, etc?
I have just driven 700km, appx, it took 20 hours, door to door including 10 on the ferry; no stops either side of the ferry, charging would have added hours onto that journey and in this case due to bad weather and a crash I would have missed the departure time.
We can stop, grab , lunch, let the dogs out and refuel in sub-30 mins and I loathe to do that.
EV’s are great for the urban environment and would be perfect for 90% of my journeys, as soon as Honda confirm that Urban concept I’ll be there, but as a long distance method they are just too limiting and everything needs to be planned around charging, I’ll stick to ICE for long distance and look at an EV for shorter work.
Secondly, comparing Tesla’s to any sort of luxury car is a stretch, I was in the big saloon one and it was rubbish inside, all plastic and p-leather, nothing like a S Class / 7 Series; they are far too expensive for what you get and I do think they will struggle once the big players move to industrialise their EV’s.
But, cool car and nice to see someone taking the plunge to help pioneer the future, does the car feedback to Tesla / share information with them, etc?
Lord.Vader said:
does the car feedback to Tesla / share information with them, etc?
The car sends stupid amounts of data back to Tesla, someone measured the data it uploads back to Tesla via home WiFi and i believe your looking at Gigabytes of data dump back to Tesla every few days.When I had my crash earlier in the year Tesla was on the phone to me checking I was ok before the police arrived at the scene!! So clearly the car is sending live data back to Tesla all the time.
I believe the car also stores all the video from the 8 cameras thats on it and the autopilot software is always in 'shadow' mode - trying to compare your driving to how it would do.
You can turn all this off if your the tin hat type.
Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 12th December 15:13
Blaster72 said:
Like millions of others, I live in a flat, hence no where to charge at home.
That does need to be sorted but its all doable, especially if you have an assigned parking space. Getting a 16/32amp socket installed 10 meters outside the house is not rocket science.Apparently houses in the 1970s had no central heating and Victorian builds had no room for flushing toilets.
I suspect in 2050 we'll look back at all this worry regarding charging and wonder what all the fuss is about.
Blaster72 said:
Like millions of others, I live in a flat, hence no where to charge at home.
Yep. London, where an EV would be ideal but we all live in flats or terraced houses with no real chance of being able to actually park outside ones own front door. It strikes me that Electric cars whilst currently the preserve of the rich, will continue to be, as you'll have to be well off enough to be living in a London home with a drive or off street parking.
I'm not anti EV btw, I just cannot comprehend how they can become mainstream when we live on top of each other in the cities.
gangzoom said:
Blaster72 said:
Like millions of others, I live in a flat, hence no where to charge at home.
That does need to be sorted but its all doable, especially if you have an assigned parking space. Getting a 16/32amp socket installed 10 meters outside the house is not rocket science.Apparently houses in the 1970s had no central heating and Victorian builds had no room for flushing toilets.
I suspect in 2050 we'll look back at all this worry regarding charging and wonder what all the fuss is about.
Blaster72 said:
gangzoom said:
Blaster72 said:
Like millions of others, I live in a flat, hence no where to charge at home.
That does need to be sorted but its all doable, especially if you have an assigned parking space. Getting a 16/32amp socket installed 10 meters outside the house is not rocket science.Apparently houses in the 1970s had no central heating and Victorian builds had no room for flushing toilets.
I suspect in 2050 we'll look back at all this worry regarding charging and wonder what all the fuss is about.
As has been said before, EVs aren't for everyone at the moment.
RayTay said:
SimonYorkshire said:
an EV implies a stop every couple of hours.
You must stop making things up.Nearly all EVs will have to stop after no more than 150 miles. A few can go further, but currently, they are very expensive.
Nearly all ICE cars can drive 400 miles, without a stop. Most can go considerably further.
And before you whinge about "ZOMG!!1!!111 BUT U NEED 2 HAV A BRAYKE UVVERWIZE U WIL KILL EVERY1 ON DE RODE!!111!1!1", I get it.
I can EASILY drive 250 miles in under 4 hrs - a journey I complete frequently. Which is still 30 minutes under the mandated maximum driving time allowed by HGV drivers before a break.
I can stop, without the need to refuel before my next stop (in another 4 hrs / 250 miles), stretch my legs, eat, drink and rest sufficiently, before another equal distance stint. This isn't an extreme example - it is still within the HGV driving hours regulations...
Yet I know of no EV which is able to complete this.
And yes, it's not (currently) the EV speciality... But EVs agent even close to being logical or practical for a considerable number of people.
And double yes, I am undoubtedly envious - almost free 'fuel', silent operation, VERY good NVH, and that traffic light grands prix power.... One day.......
Edited by TobyLerone on Tuesday 12th December 21:46
TobyLerone said:
RayTay said:
SimonYorkshire said:
an EV implies a stop every couple of hours.
You must stop making things up.Nearly all EVs will have to stop after no more than 150 miles. A few can go further, but currently, they are very expensive.
Nearly all ICE cars can drive 400 miles, without a stop. Most can go considerably further.
And before you whinge about "ZOMG!!1!!111 BUT U NEED 2 HAV A BRAYKE UVVERWIZE U WIL KILL EVERY1 ON DE RODE!!111!1!1", I get it.
I can EASILY drive 250 miles in under 4 hrs - a journey I complete frequently. Which is still 30 minutes under the mandated maximum driving time allowed by HGV drivers before a break.
I can stop, without the need to refuel before my next stop (in another 4 hrs / 250 miles), stretch my legs, eat, drink and rest sufficiently, before another equal distance stint. This isn't an extreme example - it is still within the HGV driving hours regulations...
Yet I know of no EV which is able to complete this.
And yes, it's not (currently) the EV speciality... But EVs agent even close to being logical or practical for a considerable number of people.
And double yes, I am undoubtedly envious - almost free 'fuel', silent operation, VERY good NVH, and that traffic light grands prix power.... One day.......
Edited by TobyLerone on Tuesday 12th December 21:46
EV technology is developing at a rapid rate. ICE has had over 100 years to get where it is now if we take the introduction of the Model S EV has had 5 years. All the infrastructure you see for ICE will be reflected for EV over the coming years. If you think that mainstream manufacturers will just ignore EV then think about the difficulties with emissions and the need to meet ever more stringent standards. Switch to a BEV and the problem goes away.
How do you imagine they can get close to peoples need without a period of development? Have you ever developed a technology and gone through an iterative cycle? I don't see anyone claiming they are suitable for all situations but for the situations they are good for currently the people who have taken the leap seem to be happy.
The new Tesla Roadster has a claimed range of over 600 miles with a 200KWh battery. I wonder what that would be like in a Model S say 500 miles. Then you are exceeding an ICE vehicle on that score as well. With driver aids you are also making longer journeys safer (assuming the driver doesn't take the piss of course)
As for living with an EV without a drive well there are solutions available if you look at Norway
Or undercover parking
If you live and work in the city and happen to own a car you probably know that PARKING at home and work is by far and away the biggest problem you have. Charging is a trivial issue compared to that. The short journey distances coupled with the fact that legislation will keep making ICEs more and more expensive to run in cities means the urban EV is pretty much here, give it 5 years.
I think a lot of people are opposed to EVs as a gut reaction. It seems to keep getting lost in the shuffle but any electrical point can charge an EV, might not be at the fastest rate (had use of a Leaf for a while, charged using a 13amp socket) but it will charge, and installing additional electrical points is a trivial challenge in most environments.
I think a lot of people are opposed to EVs as a gut reaction. It seems to keep getting lost in the shuffle but any electrical point can charge an EV, might not be at the fastest rate (had use of a Leaf for a while, charged using a 13amp socket) but it will charge, and installing additional electrical points is a trivial challenge in most environments.
TobyLerone said:
I can EASILY drive 250 miles in under 4 hrs - a journey I complete frequently.
You must be living in a different country to me!! Trip to see the inlaws along the M42/M6/M5/M4, left early to try and avoid the traffic, still took nearly 4 hrs to cover 150 miles (no charging stops).
Traffic just about everywhere, and we were lucky not be caught up in any accidents/closures/diversions. I couldn't wait to jump out of the car by the end, amazingly my daughter was fine!!! At least it a sign she'll be fine for the trip to Europe we have planned in the summer.
Great write up. I read the first post and then skipped past the petty arguments that followed.
I recently purchased a second hand Renault Zoe as a commuter car. I’m nearly 2 weeks into ownership and I’m enjoying it so far. The range is an issue given the 22kw battery but I’m able to trickle charge it at work with a granny lead which helps.
I’ve been tracking Tesla prices since as I’m seriously considering the purchase of a Model S 85.
I’ve run a few large engined cars in the past and a LPG converted car but I can see why EV is the future.
I recently purchased a second hand Renault Zoe as a commuter car. I’m nearly 2 weeks into ownership and I’m enjoying it so far. The range is an issue given the 22kw battery but I’m able to trickle charge it at work with a granny lead which helps.
I’ve been tracking Tesla prices since as I’m seriously considering the purchase of a Model S 85.
I’ve run a few large engined cars in the past and a LPG converted car but I can see why EV is the future.
^Zoe is a great little car, our in laws have one. Next to our X it looks tiny!
Had there been a option to get a used X when we bought we would have gone for it. With used S85s now starting to be available at sub £45k from Tesla which also means a 4 year 50k warranty its a decent saving over buying new.
Had there been a option to get a used X when we bought we would have gone for it. With used S85s now starting to be available at sub £45k from Tesla which also means a 4 year 50k warranty its a decent saving over buying new.
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