Audi e-tron SUV 2018/2019
Discussion
Friend at work got sent this by Audi - https://beta.audi.co.uk/e-tron.html
Introducing the Audi e-tron quattro concept: our first-ever all-electric car and the prototype of our next-generation SUV, powered entirely by electricity. Here’s how you can be one of the first behind the wheel of the production model when it arrives in early 2019.
Delivering up to 370kW and 500PS of power, the Audi e-tron quattro concept has a stunning, aerodynamic design, many advanced intelligent features and range over 310 miles on a single charge.
The first fully-electric Audi will be available to order late in 2018, with the first deliveries following in early 2019. But by placing a deposit now, you can secure access to Priority Ordering - making you one of the first to order our most advanced car yet.
Others say 250 miles on the WLTP cycle : http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/90728/new-2018-a...
Doubt it will be cheap with a 95kWh pack in it.
Introducing the Audi e-tron quattro concept: our first-ever all-electric car and the prototype of our next-generation SUV, powered entirely by electricity. Here’s how you can be one of the first behind the wheel of the production model when it arrives in early 2019.
Delivering up to 370kW and 500PS of power, the Audi e-tron quattro concept has a stunning, aerodynamic design, many advanced intelligent features and range over 310 miles on a single charge.
The first fully-electric Audi will be available to order late in 2018, with the first deliveries following in early 2019. But by placing a deposit now, you can secure access to Priority Ordering - making you one of the first to order our most advanced car yet.
Others say 250 miles on the WLTP cycle : http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/90728/new-2018-a...
Doubt it will be cheap with a 95kWh pack in it.
oop north said:
I’m struggling to know what to do - have an i3 going back mid-December and I am rather averse to ordering something without driving it first. Especially at the prices of these 60-70k cars. But if I don’t order one before driving it I won’t get one at the right time
If you dont want a Tesla your only real choice is the iPace. The eTron Quattro looks awful, 95kWh pack and only a WTLP range of 250 mile?? iPace real WTLP range is 300 miles with Jag saying real world 240. The eTron Quatrro is going to struggle to hit 200 miles range real world use!!I also wouldnt count on getting any of them soon. Both Audi and Jag rely on LG for the battery packs, you just have to look at Hyundai to see how much LG is struggling to meet demand.
People are moaning Tesla cannot get Model 3 production to 5000 cars per week, Jag is targeting 15000 for a whole YEAR!! Audi hasn't even announced their production targets, I suspect it'll be less than the iPace.
Anyways apparently producing battery packs is easy so hence all the chocies around for a decent range EV.....
gangzoom said:
If you dont want a Tesla your only real choice is the iPace. The eTron Quattro looks awful, 95kWh pack and only a WTLP range of 250 mile?? iPace real WTLP range is 300 miles with Jag saying real world 240. The eTron Quatrro is going to struggle to hit 200 miles range real world use!!
Don't you think the difference in quoted range is more likely just down different measurement methods?I would have thought Audi's 95 kwh battery pack would have similar range to the Tesla 100 kwh battery pack, as I would expect the electric motors from both companies to have a similar level of efficiency.
EddieSteadyGo said:
Don't you think the difference in quoted range is more likely just down different measurement methods?
I would have thought Audi's 95 kwh battery pack would have similar range to the Tesla 100 kwh battery pack, as I would expect the electric motors from both companies to have a similar level of efficiency.
You would but the WTLP range of the Audi is 250 miles compared to 300 miles for the iPace.I would have thought Audi's 95 kwh battery pack would have similar range to the Tesla 100 kwh battery pack, as I would expect the electric motors from both companies to have a similar level of efficiency.
Tesla hasn't produced a WTLP range for the S/X but even the 75kWh cars will beat 250 miles on WTLP given their EPA rating is already close to/over 250 miles. So which ever measure the Audi is not looking good value for range given the 95kWh battery.
But the common belief is mass producing EVs is easy so lets see who quickly these cars actually hit significant production numbers
.gangzoom said:
You would but the WTLP range of the Audi is 250 miles compared to 300 miles for the iPace.
Tesla hasn't produced a WTLP range for the S/X but even the 75kWh cars will beat 250 miles on WTLP given their EPA rating is already close to/over 250 miles. So which ever measure the Audi is not looking good value for range given the 95kWh battery.
It will be interesting to find out what's going on once we see proper reviews of the car. My view is still that it is most likely the new car will have a similar range to the ipace and equivalent Model X.Tesla hasn't produced a WTLP range for the S/X but even the 75kWh cars will beat 250 miles on WTLP given their EPA rating is already close to/over 250 miles. So which ever measure the Audi is not looking good value for range given the 95kWh battery.
After all, I haven't heard that Jaguar have some kind of proprietary new motor technology which gives a step change in efficiency, and that is what it would most likely need to create such a difference in range capability.
Reading the article from Autoexpress I am finding the information a bit confusing.
The article says initially the range will be 249-mile range as measured on the WLTP cycle.
Then it refers to Audi saying the range will be "over 249 miles". If the range has been measured on the new WLTP cycle as actually being 249 miles, it seems strange Audi would claim it is over this figure.
I wonder if the explanation is that Audi haven't yet released an official WLTP range but have just said it will more than 249 miles. That would make more sense, as they haven't released other performance stats yet either.
Edited to add : I think this is the original press release from Audi. It says the WLTP range is "more than 400 kilometres (248.5 miles)".
https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/press-releases...
Not sure that is equivalent to saying the actual official WLTP range is 249 miles as stated by Autoexpress.
The article says initially the range will be 249-mile range as measured on the WLTP cycle.
Then it refers to Audi saying the range will be "over 249 miles". If the range has been measured on the new WLTP cycle as actually being 249 miles, it seems strange Audi would claim it is over this figure.
I wonder if the explanation is that Audi haven't yet released an official WLTP range but have just said it will more than 249 miles. That would make more sense, as they haven't released other performance stats yet either.
Edited to add : I think this is the original press release from Audi. It says the WLTP range is "more than 400 kilometres (248.5 miles)".
https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/press-releases...
Not sure that is equivalent to saying the actual official WLTP range is 249 miles as stated by Autoexpress.
Edited by EddieSteadyGo on Thursday 17th May 09:07
Given that Audi is a company that historically tends to quote conservatively and then over-deliver, and JLR the opposite, i wouldn't read anything into any of the figures.
For EV's with only a few single percentage points of efficiency difference in their powertains, only two things really matter:
1) drag
2) useable battery capacity
Both cars are similar size and i'd bet similar drag (really, unless you build a "streamliner" all cars actually have very similar drag really) so it'll simply come down to how much of the battery the respective companies allow the customer to actually use. Here we have a trade off between durability and range. The deeper the depth of discharge, the shorter the life of the battery.
Having said all that, in reality, for the average customer, what will matter above everything is just how they drive! (high average speeds will give short range, low average speeds long range)
For EV's with only a few single percentage points of efficiency difference in their powertains, only two things really matter:
1) drag
2) useable battery capacity
Both cars are similar size and i'd bet similar drag (really, unless you build a "streamliner" all cars actually have very similar drag really) so it'll simply come down to how much of the battery the respective companies allow the customer to actually use. Here we have a trade off between durability and range. The deeper the depth of discharge, the shorter the life of the battery.
Having said all that, in reality, for the average customer, what will matter above everything is just how they drive! (high average speeds will give short range, low average speeds long range)
gangzoom said:
But the common belief is mass producing EVs is easy so lets see who quickly these cars actually hit significant production numbers.
Not sure where you get the common belief but from but maybe the low numbers will be more to do with the lack of people able or willing to pay £75k upwards for these cars will be more of a factor?.To be fair you’d think that if you can build 15000, you could quite easily build 150,000 or more if you understood how to mass produce cars, as long as you can sell them.
REALIST123 said:
Not sure where you get the common belief but from but maybe the low numbers will be more to do with the lack of people able or willing to pay £75k upwards for these cars will be more of a factor?
To be fair you’d think that if you can build 15000, you could quite easily build 150,000 or more if you understood how to mass produce cars, as long as you can sell them.
Its not the cars that hard to produce its the battery packs. Having a 100year hertiage of producing combustion engine has zero translation to mass production of battery packs.....and unless you outsource battery production. To be fair you’d think that if you can build 15000, you could quite easily build 150,000 or more if you understood how to mass produce cars, as long as you can sell them.
Which is like saying your build combustion cars but get the engines from a third party. Given the difficulties LG is having just supplying Hyundai not sure how they will not up production to supply Jag and Audi?
But again people belive producing battery packs is easy, guess we'll find out soon.
gangzoom said:
But again people belive producing battery packs is easy, guess we'll find out soon.
Who is saying battery packs are easy to produce? I would have thought the current issues were mainly related to the massive increase in production volumes which I would guess are requiring gigantic changes in the manufacturing processes.
Even when the gigafactory is able to produce the necessary volume of cells the challenge isn't over as they will then need to concentrate on reducing the production costs per kwh in order to reach the magic $100/kwh milestone as well as trying to discover new chemistry to improve battery density.
Sounds like a massive challenge to me.
gangzoom said:
Having a 100year hertiage of producing combustion engine has zero translation to mass production of battery packs.
You think so? I'd suggest that if you can mass produce a precision mechanical object, with hundreds of moving parts, tolerances in the microns, and a complex build sequence, then slapping together a battery is really pretty easy by comparison.The 100 years of learning are more important with regard to sourcing, timing and stock control, the actual put it together bit is really very easy, and crucially, very easy to automate.
Check of the i3 battery line here, and count the number of people required:
bmw i3 battery production video
i particularly like the plasma activated bonding going on at 33 secs into that video!
EddieSteadyGo said:
It will be interesting to find out what's going on once we see proper reviews of the car. My view is still that it is most likely the new car will have a similar range to the ipace and equivalent Model X.
After all, I haven't heard that Jaguar have some kind of proprietary new motor technology which gives a step change in efficiency, and that is what it would most likely need to create such a difference in range capability.
Or it’s just more aerodynamic....After all, I haven't heard that Jaguar have some kind of proprietary new motor technology which gives a step change in efficiency, and that is what it would most likely need to create such a difference in range capability.
JonnyVTEC said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
It will be interesting to find out what's going on once we see proper reviews of the car. My view is still that it is most likely the new car will have a similar range to the ipace and equivalent Model X.
After all, I haven't heard that Jaguar have some kind of proprietary new motor technology which gives a step change in efficiency, and that is what it would most likely need to create such a difference in range capability.
Or it’s just more aerodynamic....After all, I haven't heard that Jaguar have some kind of proprietary new motor technology which gives a step change in efficiency, and that is what it would most likely need to create such a difference in range capability.
Far more likely as I mentioned earlier that it is just misreporting by Autoexpress, so when Audi say the range will be at least 400km (268.5 miles) this is being reported as the range being 269m, which is not correct.
I'm actually quite keen on this new Audi - they seem to be dripping info out as the official press release got pushed back to Sep 17th post the Audi CEO being put in jail...
but the tech around energy recovery sounds a touch more advanced than Jag or Tesla (from what I have been able to see)...
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/audi-e-tron-ele...
and this is a good video to help see a bit more of the physical car until the press release:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwkfUTeX8B8
From what I have been told, the refund is returnable at any point up to signing the spec off which should be late this year for an early delivery in April next year.
but the tech around energy recovery sounds a touch more advanced than Jag or Tesla (from what I have been able to see)...
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/audi-e-tron-ele...
and this is a good video to help see a bit more of the physical car until the press release:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwkfUTeX8B8
From what I have been told, the refund is returnable at any point up to signing the spec off which should be late this year for an early delivery in April next year.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/08/charging-down...
Also a bit of a weird article from Ars on this too - harping on about recuperation which every EV does. Seems Audi were also not very talkative on any other points.
But at least there's a date of 17th September for pricing and more info.
Also a bit of a weird article from Ars on this too - harping on about recuperation which every EV does. Seems Audi were also not very talkative on any other points.
But at least there's a date of 17th September for pricing and more info.
glm1977 said:
but the tech around energy recovery sounds a touch more advanced than Jag or Tesla (from what I have been able to see)...
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/audi-e-tron-ele...
Which bit in the article suggest Audi a better regen system than Tesla or Jaguar.https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/audi-e-tron-ele...
Talking about Jaguar, whilst all the PR material and press reviews goes on about how 'advanced' the Jaguar iPace is, all the current real life reviews are suggesting its about 20% LESS efficient than a Model X - which is a proper 7 seater, and 30%+ LESS efficient than a Model S, which still have more passenger/cargo space than the iPace.
One thing the traditional manufactures definitely have an edge over Tesla is their PR departments.
Will be interesting to see just how efficient the Audi is in real life, and how much better than the S/X it is.
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