Electric cars anomaly
Discussion
The Selfish Gene said:
hardly.......
I just like cars. Electric cars are currently crap. Goodwood FOS showed some better (looking) stuff, but I prefer noise, emotion and the way a rear wheel car delivers it's grip.
I'm not a fan of motors per wheel, and how that dynamically feels.
I'm trying to understand what you mean - the RWD Model S and i3 have a single rear motor connected to both rear wheels through a differential. It's no different to a petrol engine feeding the wheels through a diff except the different power curves? I just like cars. Electric cars are currently crap. Goodwood FOS showed some better (looking) stuff, but I prefer noise, emotion and the way a rear wheel car delivers it's grip.
I'm not a fan of motors per wheel, and how that dynamically feels.
The 4WD models have an additional motor and another diff up front. The front motor is much smaller so under hard acceleration most work is done by the rear. Similarly to 4WD performance cars such as an Evo, M5 etc power can be moved between the front and rear axles depending on grip levels.
I will be the first to admit EVs have significant downsides but there are also upsides to having them as performance cars. Ignoring the more general EV points as well as the big issue of range, as an enthusiast, here are some of things I’ve learnt in a few thousand miles of driving a Tesla and now my i3s in relation to the performance side:
The instant torque gets more addictive over time. It really is instant and utterly brutal in a fast Tesla. I didn’t believe quite how fast they could be until I experienced it and due to the way torque is delivered they feel quicker than the numbers portray on paper. My i3s feels quicker than my colleague’s Fiesta ST to 60 despite being comparable and my friend with a tuned M3 CP went out with me in a “base” Tesla with a 0-60 of 4.7s. We both agreed the Tesla felt faster despite his being M3 being quicker in reality. I've also driven a M140i 8 speed auto recently, on the boil it's far quicker than my i3 and a fantastic machine, but day to day when you're transitioning from driving normally and want that full power squeeze to get out of a roundabout/junction/overtake it's very frustrating once you're used to true instant torque. Before I experienced a quick EV this gearbox felt very quick, but now it's frustrating waiting for it to kickdown. On track or if you're already on the boil this isn't an issue, but on the road it's ever so useful to have.
Running costs – there’s no material financial penalty to hooning absolutely everywhere. My drive to work is c.30miles. I can drive like miss daisy or I can take the country roads and hammer it. The difference is about 15-20% in battery when I arrive or about 40p at the plug. I will honestly spend more on tyres than “fuel” in my ownership. Having had an Impreza where I could almost watch the fuel needle move on boost it’s liberating and I enjoy EVs to their full potential much more than a petrol car. It’s guilt free.
Efficiency – if you have a 5.0 V8 and trundle to the shops 2 miles away, you still experience the fuel economy of a 5.0 V8. Petrol cars are improving, with cylinder shut-off and turbos etc, but on the whole the V8 Mustang is not going to achieve the fuel economy of an EcoBoost Fiesta. There’s no such penalty in an EV – the fastest 2.5second to 60 Tesla achieves the same economy as the slowest when driven in the same manner. The only differences in economy between a supermini electric Zoe and the Ludicrous spec Tesla are driven by aerodynamics and weight. In some cases, the more powerful Teslas are MORE efficient, as they can shut off the rear motor which is geared to be most efficient at lower speeds/under acceleration (they put it in torque sleep) and use the smaller front motor which they’ve geared for efficiency at cruising speed. But even this is only worth very few %. Another side effect of this is you can drive around in the fastest driving mode 24/7 with no economy loss, the equivalent of running an auto in Sport and always having the revs near the redline and boost at full ready to go.
Traction control – It’s magic. The electric motors can respond more quickly than a petrol engine. I can go to full power on gravel/grass/ice and it finds grip I didn’t think possible. In really bad weather conditions even an i3 can leave very fast cars scrambling trying to keep up (until about 50mph where they’ll blast past).
External sound - After country road overtakes I'm quite used to the odd flash and gestures as people perceive it as reckless/too fast despite not speeding. I'm sure most people here have experienced something similar. A lot of this is actually noise - I could overtake in my MX5 at under the speed limit but due to a modified exhaust it regularly wound people up. EVs are the opposite, a Tesla can overtake with the full force of its c.700bhp deployed and the only noise to anyone external is wind. It's much more polite and I don't really experience the same rage in an EV. I also don't feel bad about hammering up to NSL coming out of a village in the middle of the night etc.
Main disadvantage – heat. Not in the battery, the cars can manage this as they liquid cool it using the aircon compressor. But in the motors/wiring. The Tesla will throttle back at full speed after a few minutes and so will the i3. This is being improved all the time though, there’s a video on YT of a non-performance Model 3 lapping Laguna Seca and he doesn’t hit any thermal throttling. The Performance version should be a beast. For now this rules out any trackwork and makes driving in Germany a pain.
Interior noise - you do lose something here. The motors have a whine I actually quite like but it doesn't compare to the roar of a proper petrol.
I’m a huge petrolhead and still love petrol cars, but my daily will now be an EV. I hope this post proves useful, I implore enthusiasts to try them properly, you might just be surprised.
The instant torque gets more addictive over time. It really is instant and utterly brutal in a fast Tesla. I didn’t believe quite how fast they could be until I experienced it and due to the way torque is delivered they feel quicker than the numbers portray on paper. My i3s feels quicker than my colleague’s Fiesta ST to 60 despite being comparable and my friend with a tuned M3 CP went out with me in a “base” Tesla with a 0-60 of 4.7s. We both agreed the Tesla felt faster despite his being M3 being quicker in reality. I've also driven a M140i 8 speed auto recently, on the boil it's far quicker than my i3 and a fantastic machine, but day to day when you're transitioning from driving normally and want that full power squeeze to get out of a roundabout/junction/overtake it's very frustrating once you're used to true instant torque. Before I experienced a quick EV this gearbox felt very quick, but now it's frustrating waiting for it to kickdown. On track or if you're already on the boil this isn't an issue, but on the road it's ever so useful to have.
Running costs – there’s no material financial penalty to hooning absolutely everywhere. My drive to work is c.30miles. I can drive like miss daisy or I can take the country roads and hammer it. The difference is about 15-20% in battery when I arrive or about 40p at the plug. I will honestly spend more on tyres than “fuel” in my ownership. Having had an Impreza where I could almost watch the fuel needle move on boost it’s liberating and I enjoy EVs to their full potential much more than a petrol car. It’s guilt free.
Efficiency – if you have a 5.0 V8 and trundle to the shops 2 miles away, you still experience the fuel economy of a 5.0 V8. Petrol cars are improving, with cylinder shut-off and turbos etc, but on the whole the V8 Mustang is not going to achieve the fuel economy of an EcoBoost Fiesta. There’s no such penalty in an EV – the fastest 2.5second to 60 Tesla achieves the same economy as the slowest when driven in the same manner. The only differences in economy between a supermini electric Zoe and the Ludicrous spec Tesla are driven by aerodynamics and weight. In some cases, the more powerful Teslas are MORE efficient, as they can shut off the rear motor which is geared to be most efficient at lower speeds/under acceleration (they put it in torque sleep) and use the smaller front motor which they’ve geared for efficiency at cruising speed. But even this is only worth very few %. Another side effect of this is you can drive around in the fastest driving mode 24/7 with no economy loss, the equivalent of running an auto in Sport and always having the revs near the redline and boost at full ready to go.
Traction control – It’s magic. The electric motors can respond more quickly than a petrol engine. I can go to full power on gravel/grass/ice and it finds grip I didn’t think possible. In really bad weather conditions even an i3 can leave very fast cars scrambling trying to keep up (until about 50mph where they’ll blast past).
External sound - After country road overtakes I'm quite used to the odd flash and gestures as people perceive it as reckless/too fast despite not speeding. I'm sure most people here have experienced something similar. A lot of this is actually noise - I could overtake in my MX5 at under the speed limit but due to a modified exhaust it regularly wound people up. EVs are the opposite, a Tesla can overtake with the full force of its c.700bhp deployed and the only noise to anyone external is wind. It's much more polite and I don't really experience the same rage in an EV. I also don't feel bad about hammering up to NSL coming out of a village in the middle of the night etc.
Main disadvantage – heat. Not in the battery, the cars can manage this as they liquid cool it using the aircon compressor. But in the motors/wiring. The Tesla will throttle back at full speed after a few minutes and so will the i3. This is being improved all the time though, there’s a video on YT of a non-performance Model 3 lapping Laguna Seca and he doesn’t hit any thermal throttling. The Performance version should be a beast. For now this rules out any trackwork and makes driving in Germany a pain.
Interior noise - you do lose something here. The motors have a whine I actually quite like but it doesn't compare to the roar of a proper petrol.
I’m a huge petrolhead and still love petrol cars, but my daily will now be an EV. I hope this post proves useful, I implore enthusiasts to try them properly, you might just be surprised.
The above post is great.irocfan said:
the issue for me, and many others, is that there is no sound. I honestly don't care if a Tesla or an/other is massively quicker off the mark - I just love a V8 rumble
Well, if that's your only problem with EV's, it's easily sorted. Put some brmm-brrmm noises on a USB stick, plug it into the sound system and crank it up.Alternatively, and on a more serious note: only use the dino juice burner as a hobby car. It's going to be an expensive-to-run anachronism in a few years time anyway.
Edited by tr3a on Saturday 21st July 10:35
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