Power supply tariffs and charging strategy
Discussion
Seriously in the latter stages of bringing an EV into the fleet.
Used Tekna Leaf most likely 2014/15.
Most of the mileage will be commute, daily round trip 26/30 miles depending upon route taken, so 13/15 miles one way, mostly rural roads, bit of DC, but a few hills.
Free electric available at work, woohoo, assuming spaces available and charger working, which isn't always the case.
So in principle even a 24kwh version should have enough range from full charge to get home > back to work and then still have sufficient to get back home again if not possible to charge during the day for whatever reason. If my logic on that is wrong someone please advise.
So the question revolves around which energy plan at home and chargepoint. One opinion that's been offered is that it's not worth it and just use the granny charger from a normal plug. But to be right I'll have to put in a dedicated spur I think, plus no spare slots for that in the consumer unit. Realise some folks use an extension as short term solution but don't want to rely on that. Also there's the issue of whether the car has 3.3 or 6.6 charger re extra benefit of chargepoint. Having said that getting the point is future proofing to some extent.
Therefore that opens up the issue that if we install a charge point it will need a second consumer unit. What's the typical extra cost for that?
Secondly suspect that with that usage it's not going to be worth switching to an EV tariff with the power company. Eg with OVO current supplier the increased rate, both standing charge and unit rate would increase the bill so much that the saving from them giving you a free Polar RFID card is wiped out and how. Likewise probably not worth Economy 7 and the like.
Question is any pointers towards a supplier with any good deals. Or is it just a case of using MSE energy club etc comparison sites and banging the unit rates into Excel.
Plus minor rant, why do the gits make it so difficult to find the tariff rates?
What else have I missed? I'm not going to be main user btw.
Used Tekna Leaf most likely 2014/15.
Most of the mileage will be commute, daily round trip 26/30 miles depending upon route taken, so 13/15 miles one way, mostly rural roads, bit of DC, but a few hills.
Free electric available at work, woohoo, assuming spaces available and charger working, which isn't always the case.
So in principle even a 24kwh version should have enough range from full charge to get home > back to work and then still have sufficient to get back home again if not possible to charge during the day for whatever reason. If my logic on that is wrong someone please advise.
So the question revolves around which energy plan at home and chargepoint. One opinion that's been offered is that it's not worth it and just use the granny charger from a normal plug. But to be right I'll have to put in a dedicated spur I think, plus no spare slots for that in the consumer unit. Realise some folks use an extension as short term solution but don't want to rely on that. Also there's the issue of whether the car has 3.3 or 6.6 charger re extra benefit of chargepoint. Having said that getting the point is future proofing to some extent.
Therefore that opens up the issue that if we install a charge point it will need a second consumer unit. What's the typical extra cost for that?
Secondly suspect that with that usage it's not going to be worth switching to an EV tariff with the power company. Eg with OVO current supplier the increased rate, both standing charge and unit rate would increase the bill so much that the saving from them giving you a free Polar RFID card is wiped out and how. Likewise probably not worth Economy 7 and the like.
Question is any pointers towards a supplier with any good deals. Or is it just a case of using MSE energy club etc comparison sites and banging the unit rates into Excel.
Plus minor rant, why do the gits make it so difficult to find the tariff rates?
What else have I missed? I'm not going to be main user btw.
FiF said:
Most of the mileage will be commute, daily round trip 26/30 miles depending upon route taken, so 13/15 miles one way, mostly rural roads, bit of DC, but a few hills.
Free electric available at work, woohoo, assuming spaces available and charger working, which isn't always the case.
So in principle even a 24kwh version should have enough range from full charge to get home > back to work and then still have sufficient to get back home again if not possible to charge during the day for whatever reason. If my logic on that is wrong someone please advise.
So the question revolves around which energy plan at home and chargepoint. One opinion that's been offered is that it's not worth it and just use the granny charger from a normal plug. But to be right I'll have to put in a dedicated spur I think, plus no spare slots for that in the consumer unit. Realise some folks use an extension as short term solution but don't want to rely on that. Also there's the issue of whether the car has 3.3 or 6.6 charger re extra benefit of chargepoint. Having said that getting the point is future proofing to some extent.
Therefore that opens up the issue that if we install a charge point it will need a second consumer unit. What's the typical extra cost for that?
Question is any pointers towards a supplier with any good deals. Or is it just a case of using MSE energy club etc comparison sites and banging the unit rates into Excel.
I do a daily round trip of 52 miles in a 30kWh Leaf. Mostly rural single carriageway, so NSL, and fairly hilly.Free electric available at work, woohoo, assuming spaces available and charger working, which isn't always the case.
So in principle even a 24kwh version should have enough range from full charge to get home > back to work and then still have sufficient to get back home again if not possible to charge during the day for whatever reason. If my logic on that is wrong someone please advise.
So the question revolves around which energy plan at home and chargepoint. One opinion that's been offered is that it's not worth it and just use the granny charger from a normal plug. But to be right I'll have to put in a dedicated spur I think, plus no spare slots for that in the consumer unit. Realise some folks use an extension as short term solution but don't want to rely on that. Also there's the issue of whether the car has 3.3 or 6.6 charger re extra benefit of chargepoint. Having said that getting the point is future proofing to some extent.
Therefore that opens up the issue that if we install a charge point it will need a second consumer unit. What's the typical extra cost for that?
Question is any pointers towards a supplier with any good deals. Or is it just a case of using MSE energy club etc comparison sites and banging the unit rates into Excel.
No charging at work for me, and in summer I use around 45% of my charge doing this. A bit more in winter.
You could use the granny charger indefinately as long as your wiring is in reasonable shape. Maybe a spark could have a look over it to be sure? A dedicated charge point makes more sense however. You'll need a dedicated spur for a charger, and I'd get a 7kW one even if your car has the slower charge rate. We had a new consumer unit put in as the old one was really quite old, and an update wasn't a bad option. Cost was a few £100.
As far as suppliers goes, there's no beating Money Saving Expert in my view. Take your present usage in kWh and add your anticipated ev usage to get a realistic figure and get comparing. Based on your trip your annual mileage will be about 6,700. You should get 4 miles/kWh, so about 1680kWh of electricity to add to your current usage.
Assuming you pay 11p/kWh that's about £185 a year.
PodPoint standard install price includes an additional consumer unit and enclosure where required. With most other companies it’s an unspecified extra cost so whilst they’re not the cheapest you won’t get stung for additional costs on the install day.
I’d highly recommend a tethered chargepoint - it takes a couple of seconds to plug in, no faffing about with cables. I moved recently and had to use the 3 pin cable for a couple of weeks and it was painful by comparison.
I’d highly recommend a tethered chargepoint - it takes a couple of seconds to plug in, no faffing about with cables. I moved recently and had to use the 3 pin cable for a couple of weeks and it was painful by comparison.
quinny100 said:
PodPoint standard install price includes an additional consumer unit and enclosure where required. With most other companies it’s an unspecified extra cost so whilst they’re not the cheapest you won’t get stung for additional costs on the install day.
I’d highly recommend a tethered chargepoint - it takes a couple of seconds to plug in, no faffing about with cables. I moved recently and had to use the 3 pin cable for a couple of weeks and it was painful by comparison.
If you're getting a leaf of that vintage I would definitely not get a tethered charger. They have the older style type 1 (I think) connector that aren't present in many new EVs which are now Type 2.I’d highly recommend a tethered chargepoint - it takes a couple of seconds to plug in, no faffing about with cables. I moved recently and had to use the 3 pin cable for a couple of weeks and it was painful by comparison.
Thanks for comments all. Hadn't looked at Podpoint and it seems they do definitely include an additional consumer unit if required, which is handy as we renewed ours a few years back when renovating kitchen, all in price of £95 for a used Leaf, so that's a good steer.
Was originally going to go for 7kw tethered and just accept that in the event of a change of vehicle get a sparks to change the cable. Slight difference of opinion with the car user as to that and siting of point, I'm ok with outside at side of house, she prefers it untethered inside garage, keep extra cable connected and loop it under garage door, at the bottom there is a brush strip gap. Seems to be concerned about caravan club of Ireland lot nicking any cable for the copper. Personally I reckon opening the heavy garage door will pall far more rapidly.
Numpty question, if you have a locking point does that lock the cable from being removed from an untethered unit? Or does it just prevent it being used to provide power?
Thanks for suggestion about usage based on mileage to add onto MSE figures, what should be added for heated seat use? User is a heated seat freak, when gets in my car if she could fire up the heated seats before the starter motor finished cranking she would, summertime included.
Incidentally, off topic, as it's impossible to find out the full situation from the OVO website and before I'd figured out their confusing tariff information had sent them an email. Found out on MSE that tgey have changed their terms and conditions regarding their discount for self service customers. Seems that just sending them an email, in addition to phone or mail contact, now qualifies for losing the discount for a quarter. Stuff that.
Was originally going to go for 7kw tethered and just accept that in the event of a change of vehicle get a sparks to change the cable. Slight difference of opinion with the car user as to that and siting of point, I'm ok with outside at side of house, she prefers it untethered inside garage, keep extra cable connected and loop it under garage door, at the bottom there is a brush strip gap. Seems to be concerned about caravan club of Ireland lot nicking any cable for the copper. Personally I reckon opening the heavy garage door will pall far more rapidly.
Numpty question, if you have a locking point does that lock the cable from being removed from an untethered unit? Or does it just prevent it being used to provide power?
Thanks for suggestion about usage based on mileage to add onto MSE figures, what should be added for heated seat use? User is a heated seat freak, when gets in my car if she could fire up the heated seats before the starter motor finished cranking she would, summertime included.
Incidentally, off topic, as it's impossible to find out the full situation from the OVO website and before I'd figured out their confusing tariff information had sent them an email. Found out on MSE that tgey have changed their terms and conditions regarding their discount for self service customers. Seems that just sending them an email, in addition to phone or mail contact, now qualifies for losing the discount for a quarter. Stuff that.
FiF said:
Was originally going to go for 7kw tethered and just accept that in the event of a change of vehicle get a sparks to change the cable. Slight difference of opinion with the car user as to that and siting of point, I'm ok with outside at side of house, she prefers it untethered inside garage, keep extra cable connected and loop it under garage door, at the bottom there is a brush strip gap. Seems to be concerned about caravan club of Ireland lot nicking any cable for the copper. Personally I reckon opening the heavy garage door will pall far more rapidly.
Numpty question, if you have a locking point does that lock the cable from being removed from an untethered unit? Or does it just prevent it being used to provide power?
I'd go for untethered 7kW. Maybe consider fitting some sort of locking loop for the cable to pass through which would prevent theft?Numpty question, if you have a locking point does that lock the cable from being removed from an untethered unit? Or does it just prevent it being used to provide power?
FiF said:
Thanks for suggestion about usage based on mileage to add onto MSE figures, what should be added for heated seat use? User is a heated seat freak, when gets in my car if she could fire up the heated seats before the starter motor finished cranking she would, summertime included.
Don't think electric seat use will make a discernible impact. The "recommendation" is to use heated seats rather than climate control for heating as it uses less power, but I don't. The 4m/kW figure includes climate control, lights etc, averaged out over a year.FiF said:
Thanks for comments all. Hadn't looked at Podpoint and it seems they do definitely include an additional consumer unit if required, which is handy as we renewed ours a few years back when renovating kitchen, all in price of £95 for a used Leaf, so that's a good steer.
Was originally going to go for 7kw tethered and just accept that in the event of a change of vehicle get a sparks to change the cable. Slight difference of opinion with the car user as to that and siting of point, I'm ok with outside at side of house, she prefers it untethered inside garage, keep extra cable connected and loop it under garage door, at the bottom there is a brush strip gap. Seems to be concerned about caravan club of Ireland lot nicking any cable for the copper. Personally I reckon opening the heavy garage door will pall far more rapidly.
Numpty question, if you have a locking point does that lock the cable from being removed from an untethered unit? Or does it just prevent it being used to provide power?
Whilst your getting another consumer box fitted worth while looking into if the main house fuse needs upgrading. Most energy providers will do this for FREE, we had a 60AMP main fuse changed to 100AMP for free just by asking the energy company. Longterm if your going to run 2 EVS both drawing 32amps at once when charging your want 80AMP fuse as minimal. Was originally going to go for 7kw tethered and just accept that in the event of a change of vehicle get a sparks to change the cable. Slight difference of opinion with the car user as to that and siting of point, I'm ok with outside at side of house, she prefers it untethered inside garage, keep extra cable connected and loop it under garage door, at the bottom there is a brush strip gap. Seems to be concerned about caravan club of Ireland lot nicking any cable for the copper. Personally I reckon opening the heavy garage door will pall far more rapidly.
Numpty question, if you have a locking point does that lock the cable from being removed from an untethered unit? Or does it just prevent it being used to provide power?
For car 'locking' charging cables they are about as secure as a very cheap bike lock. A chancer just passing by wouldn't be able to unlock the thing, but someone who knows what they are doing will be able to get the cable released very quickly. Any fiddling with the cable will usually also stop the charge, so if you think this is a real possibility where you live having one end of the cable in doors would be much better idea. You can leave one end plugger in constantly, run a long cable outside and put a cable mount/holder on the outside wall?? There is no need to touch the charger as it'll only charge when connected to a car, so no real need to open the garage door.
As for going to E7 overnight cheap electricity it all depends on your household usage. Modern LED lights, LED TVs etc use hardly any electricity, after the car the biggest electricity usage is down to the washing machine/dryer (kids = these been on nearly every day), dishwasher. If you set the bigger appliances to run over night along with charging the car you might be surprised at how much 'cheap' electricity you end up using.
We are currently at 4:1 split between usage of cheap E7 rates versus day time rates, but our EV is currently doing 1200 miles+ a month so decent usage.
Changing suppliers is actually quite easy, we've changed 4 times in 3 years, and may do so again soon not that our current supplier is putting up prices.
Edited by gangzoom on Friday 2nd November 11:50
FiF said:
100 amp fuse already in place, plus there is a 100 amp connection box with spare terminals between the meter and the existing consumer unit. I assume that will make adding in an additional consumer unit relatively straightforward.
Sounds like you have it all sorted!!EV home charging really is no harder to sort out than putting in wiring needed for an electric shower/cooker.
Once you get use to been able to refuel at home visiting a petrol station will seem like a chore!!
gangzoom said:
FiF said:
100 amp fuse already in place, plus there is a 100 amp connection box with spare terminals between the meter and the existing consumer unit. I assume that will make adding in an additional consumer unit relatively straightforward.
Sounds like you have it all sorted!!EV home charging really is no harder to sort out than putting in wiring needed for an electric shower/cooker.
Once you get use to been able to refuel at home visiting a petrol station will seem like a chore!!
Anyway on energy supply have been looking at Octopus EV Go, Economy 7 type tariff, 5p/kWh between 00:30 and 04:30, daytime rate doesn't look too bad either.
The reality is that with free leccy during the day how much will we use? The other practical issue is that once it's charged up during the day finding another empty space to move to, thus freeing up the charger for another user, will be the biggest pain.
Might be worth looking into https://ebico.org.uk/energy-plans/ebico-night-owl/ - free economy 7 electricity (subject to fair usage)
I've just finally got our first bill through for the current house sense moving to an E7 meter.
Bill period is from start of April to end of October, so pretty much 6 months.
Car has done 8.5K miles in the time period, set all things like washing machine/dishwasher to run overnight as well, but 95% of our night/E7 rate usage is the car. Essentially work out at 2.5 per mile for fuel even taking into account charging losses, not bad for a 2.5ton sub 5 second 0-60 6 seater SUV
.
Also happened to get our 6 monthly solar PV FIT statement through last few weeks, we did have a good summer but excluding car usage even our relative small 4KW solar PV panel generated nearly 3 times the amount of electricity we used during the day time in the last 6 months!!
Though clearly our day time electricity use is reduced due to the solar PV system, still it shows just how much impact localised generation via things like polar PV can have on grid demand, especially if you include home battery storage - Which hopefully we'll have by next year this time, at which point I hope our day time electricty use will be close to 5% of total usage.
Bill period is from start of April to end of October, so pretty much 6 months.
Car has done 8.5K miles in the time period, set all things like washing machine/dishwasher to run overnight as well, but 95% of our night/E7 rate usage is the car. Essentially work out at 2.5 per mile for fuel even taking into account charging losses, not bad for a 2.5ton sub 5 second 0-60 6 seater SUV
.Also happened to get our 6 monthly solar PV FIT statement through last few weeks, we did have a good summer but excluding car usage even our relative small 4KW solar PV panel generated nearly 3 times the amount of electricity we used during the day time in the last 6 months!!
Though clearly our day time electricity use is reduced due to the solar PV system, still it shows just how much impact localised generation via things like polar PV can have on grid demand, especially if you include home battery storage - Which hopefully we'll have by next year this time, at which point I hope our day time electricty use will be close to 5% of total usage
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