Batteries dead after 5 years
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
98elise said:
Can you point me to one of these give away cars. I could do with a cheap EV.
The impending ULEZ seems to have created a stronger demand and bumped values up this year. I walk from Cannon Street to Gresham Street (5 minutes) and I seem to see them daily. I also noticed two electric buses this morning.
If anything was crying out for electrification it was London buses and taxis. I won't miss the clatter of a black cab
What a great sight, even more of our new #electrictaxis are hitting the road and heading down to #London! This latest delivery means there are nearly 1,000 #TX taxis on the capital's roads, so hailing an #electrictaxi has never been easier! https://t.co/08tRHqt4Ly
RobDickinson said:
Used leafs here are up 30-40% on a year ago.
I have noticed this in my casual search for one. I'm being put off by the practicalities though, which I see like this:-A 2012 Leaf (24Kw) is around £7,000 (was £6,000 a year ago) but a realistic range on a full charge is 60 miles.
A 2015 Leaf (30Kw) is around £12,000. The full-charge-range when new was about 160 miles, I guess a similar percentage reduction will apply over time.
A 2018 Leaf (40Kw) will give a range of 230 miles, but costs £25,000.
This perspective says it still doesn't make sense for me over a petrol car.
M4cruiser said:
I have noticed this in my casual search for one. I'm being put off by the practicalities though, which I see like this:-
A 2012 Leaf (24Kw) is around £7,000 (was £6,000 a year ago) but a realistic range on a full charge is 60 miles.
A 2015 Leaf (30Kw) is around £12,000. The full-charge-range when new was about 160 miles, I guess a similar percentage reduction will apply over time.
A 2018 Leaf (40Kw) will give a range of 230 miles, but costs £25,000.
This perspective says it still doesn't make sense for me over a petrol car.
I don't want to make your calculations even worse, but a 30kw Leaf won't do 160 miles. More like 100 - 130 miles max. A 2012 Leaf (24Kw) is around £7,000 (was £6,000 a year ago) but a realistic range on a full charge is 60 miles.
A 2015 Leaf (30Kw) is around £12,000. The full-charge-range when new was about 160 miles, I guess a similar percentage reduction will apply over time.
A 2018 Leaf (40Kw) will give a range of 230 miles, but costs £25,000.
This perspective says it still doesn't make sense for me over a petrol car.
Still a great car for urban use, if your daily usage fits within its limitations.
Going back to the title of this thread, some big numbers now being reached on Teslas.
https://twitter.com/teslamiles?lang=en
A guy on speakev was chatting to a taxi driver in Finland who's put on 600,000km in 4 yrs in a Model S, intends on adding another 300k and expects to sell it for €30k after 6yrs with 2yrs warranty left. Claims he saves €2k/month on fue. Bills so far €7500.
Not too bad!
https://twitter.com/teslamiles?lang=en
A guy on speakev was chatting to a taxi driver in Finland who's put on 600,000km in 4 yrs in a Model S, intends on adding another 300k and expects to sell it for €30k after 6yrs with 2yrs warranty left. Claims he saves €2k/month on fue. Bills so far €7500.
Not too bad!
EddieSteadyGo said:
M4cruiser said:
I have noticed this in my casual search for one. I'm being put off by the practicalities though, which I see like this:-
A 2012 Leaf (24Kw) is around £7,000 (was £6,000 a year ago) but a realistic range on a full charge is 60 miles.
A 2015 Leaf (30Kw) is around £12,000. The full-charge-range when new was about 160 miles, I guess a similar percentage reduction will apply over time.
A 2018 Leaf (40Kw) will give a range of 230 miles, but costs £25,000.
This perspective says it still doesn't make sense for me over a petrol car.
I don't want to make your calculations even worse, but a 30kw Leaf won't do 160 miles. More like 100 - 130 miles max. A 2012 Leaf (24Kw) is around £7,000 (was £6,000 a year ago) but a realistic range on a full charge is 60 miles.
A 2015 Leaf (30Kw) is around £12,000. The full-charge-range when new was about 160 miles, I guess a similar percentage reduction will apply over time.
A 2018 Leaf (40Kw) will give a range of 230 miles, but costs £25,000.
This perspective says it still doesn't make sense for me over a petrol car.
Still a great car for urban use, if your daily usage fits within its limitations.
Zap Map gives a better indication of the real life range of the cars.
https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/nissan-leaf-...
Why carry the extra weight of a hybrid?
Because there isnt an affordable full BEV that will do what you need it to. I could replace my PHEV outlander with... A model X for $170,000 (over 3 times the new price), even then some trips (at least in NZ for now) wouldnt be possible.
Hybrids are an overly complex compromise but are needed for a transition, they are also a good entry into EV cars.
How will the government tax pure EV?
NZ already has Road usage charges for when no duty is collected on fuel (diesel etc, we dont have 'red diesel'). This will likely apply to EVs from 2022 onward and is based on KMs traveled.
Because there isnt an affordable full BEV that will do what you need it to. I could replace my PHEV outlander with... A model X for $170,000 (over 3 times the new price), even then some trips (at least in NZ for now) wouldnt be possible.
Hybrids are an overly complex compromise but are needed for a transition, they are also a good entry into EV cars.
How will the government tax pure EV?
NZ already has Road usage charges for when no duty is collected on fuel (diesel etc, we dont have 'red diesel'). This will likely apply to EVs from 2022 onward and is based on KMs traveled.
ash73 said:
pingu393 said:
How will the government tax pure EV?
Kiss goodbye to economy 7.VED should be based on kerbweight, imo.
1) solar power --> car
2) eco7 --> car
3) battery in the house to store cheap / free energy --> car
I agree that the only way to tax mobility would be increased VED, or toll roads.
RobDickinson said:
Nothing bad will happen to electricity prices, renewable, home solar etc..
Taxes will be on travel
Quite likely. But unjustifiable. You can make an argument for congestion charging. You can make an argument for taxing fossil fuels or emissions. Taxing mobility directly, or taxing electricity for transport over other potentially more frivolous uses, is unjustifiable in any rational sense. The only reason you can get away with it is that people are used to it. Taxes will be on travel
I don't think they'll tax travel generically, I think they'll tax road travel in private vehicles which isn't quite the same thing.
I can certainly see the arguments for doing so but only if they make a viable alternative available; either in the form of heavily subsidised public transport or by the harder but probably more desirable route of shifting population centres and businesses around so people can afford to live near their jobs.
I can certainly see the arguments for doing so but only if they make a viable alternative available; either in the form of heavily subsidised public transport or by the harder but probably more desirable route of shifting population centres and businesses around so people can afford to live near their jobs.
Edited by kambites on Friday 23 November 07:48
ash73 said:
pingu393 said:
How will the government tax pure EV?
Kiss goodbye to economy 7.VED should be based on kerbweight, imo.
Kerb weight is an issue for ICE's but less so for EV's due to regen (more energy is recovered on a heavier car).
Edited by 98elise on Friday 23 November 12:52
98elise said:
Slightly tangential question (as you work in London as well), have you noticed how many EV black cabs have suddenly appeared?
I walk from Cannon Street to Gresham Street (5 minutes) and I seem to see them daily. I also noticed two electric buses this morning.
If anything was crying out for electrification it was London buses and taxis. I won't miss the clatter of a black cab
Yup. I’ve only started to notice the taxis in the last month or so. I walk from Cannon Street to Gresham Street (5 minutes) and I seem to see them daily. I also noticed two electric buses this morning.
If anything was crying out for electrification it was London buses and taxis. I won't miss the clatter of a black cab
One small issue with changing all cabs to EV is just how many drivers now no longer live anywhere near Central London. So many seem to be out in places like Southend or Wellyn etc. The drivers are going to have to adapt how they commute in to work maybe as using a large part of their charge for their own commute could be more costly than taking taking the train in to where they leave their vehicle at the end of the shift?
But it can’t come soon enough for cabs and buses if only to truly highlight the serious issue of minicabs, which have to be the next big target as they almost certainly pollute far more as a collective, not just through air pollution but how they cause so much congestion.
Frankly, when you see people Ubering between bars and meetings you soon begin to think that a minimum fare is desperately needed to stop the insanity of people using minicabs to travel walking distances or easy Tube runs.
otolith said:
1. range anxiety
2. Road charging. Or metered charging. Or tiered billing. Or raise it on something else altogether.
Eventually I can imagine that domestic gas heating will be taxed out and households all switch to electricity. That’s then billed at a higher rate after a set amount is used. 2. Road charging. Or metered charging. Or tiered billing. Or raise it on something else altogether.
At the same time EVs will probably transmit their mileage for billing.
The taxation aspect won’t be an issue. For 1000 years Britain has been the most efficient implementor of taxation on the planet. We can do this stuff in our sleep.
otolith said:
DonkeyApple said:
Eventually I can imagine that domestic gas heating will be taxed out and households all switch to electricity. That’s then billed at a higher rate after a set amount is used.
That's the cheapest (and arguably fairest) way of doing it.
DonkeyApple said:
I think it’s also an extremely easy sell politically and environmentally as it would place a juicy tax on all the evil scum who don’t live in a shoebox. Everyone gets a standard rate quota based on the defined usage of an average U.K. domicile that is deemed suitably environmentally efficient and everything above that has a scaled eco tax slapped on it. Would also massively incentivise the adoption of personal power generation, preferably not from diesel generators.
You could also discount for green tariffs, driving demand for renewables.Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff