Electric cars - range when thrashed

[SpeckledJim]

feef said:

kambites said:

feef said:

I have thought that charging points ON the boats or train would be a no-brainer, even if they charged a premium for their use.

The trains, certainly since they're mains electric anyway. I doubt the ferries have the generation capacity to fast-charge a significant proportion of the cars on them so that'd be considerably more expensive to implement.

Would work on overnight crossings where it wouldn't need to be a fast-charge

Would a ferry have the kind of generator that can deliver, say, 120kW to twenty charging BEV's?


(on further consideration, yes, of course it would)

[PixelpeepS3]

I can halve the range on the i3 if i drive flat to the floor everywhere - that said my s3 would show 400 mile range on a full tank and i know for a fact it'd return less than 150 if i kept my right foot planted..

[anonymous-user]

I had a leaf on a 48 hour test drive and foot to the floor on the motorway the range went down so fast I didn't think I'd make it home. The range dropped 4 miles for every real mile I did.

Same as a petrol car.

[feef]

SpeckledJim said:

Would a ferry have the kind of generator that can deliver, say, 120kW to twenty charging BEV's?


(on further consideration, yes, of course it would)

You'd also expect them to have excess generating capacity at night as most of the bars, restaurants, cinemas and whatnot won't be open and running.

[LG9k]

Pappyjohn said:

I had a leaf on a 48 hour test drive and foot to the floor on the motorway the range went down so fast I didn't think I'd make it home. The range dropped 4 miles for every real mile I did.

Same as a petrol car.

The big difference being "recharge" times.

[LG9k]

ntiz said:

On a blast around Norfolk country roads I have seen 110 miles range from a 90d. But that was taking no consideration for regen and flat out at every single opportunity.

To the chap asking about 95 mph on a cold day. I just did Schladming to Norfolk earlier this month at at -2 with a head wind trying to maintain 85 on an autobahn I could only muster 135 range I ended up having ditch my original route because the car wasn’t going to make it had to stop 9 tines on the first day. Was a total disaster.

Going 95 anywhere in a Tesla is pretty pointless because you have to stop more so you piss away everything you gained plus more.

Unless you are willing to sit there and chill at 65-70 don’t bother.

I enjoyed my trip to Austria so much in my Tesla that I’m test driving range rovers next week.

P.s if don’t need to long jounrnies regularly they are great cars!!!

Great to hear the truth about Teslas rather than the propaganda from the Muskovites. Thank you.

[feef]

LG9k said:

Pappyjohn said:

I had a leaf on a 48 hour test drive and foot to the floor on the motorway the range went down so fast I didn't think I'd make it home. The range dropped 4 miles for every real mile I did.

Same as a petrol car.

The big difference being "recharge" times.

There is the argument that if you've been driving long enough to need a recharge, then you should probably stop for a rest anyway. With a Tesla or one of the others that support decent fast charging, a 20 minute fast-charge break should be sufficient to see a reasonable charge level

[chandrew]

LG9k said:

Pappyjohn said:

I had a leaf on a 48 hour test drive and foot to the floor on the motorway the range went down so fast I didn't think I'd make it home. The range dropped 4 miles for every real mile I did.

Same as a petrol car.

The big difference being "recharge" times.

My experience is that range is important up to a certain point but after that the key factor is recharge time. I personally don't see > 300 mile range as that important.

We have increasing numbers of 350 kw IONITY chargers popping up here in Switzerland (and my Porsche dealer suggested they're all going to have them). As someone who lives in a cold place (-20 most mornings at the moment) and does on-average 500km round trips I believe the Taycan and 'sister' cars are probably the first ones that will meet my need for long-distance travel.

[blueg33]

deeps said:

Out of curiosity I asked for a Leaf as a loan car while my Gtr was in for a service, that made them laugh at least They charged it ready for my collection.

The journey home from Bristol is around 30 miles. Naturally I wanted to test its acceleration, overtaking capabilities and top speed. I didn't quite make it home though. Just managed to get to Sedgemoor services (jnct 22) to stick it on a recharge, so it managed about 25 miles. The expensive bit was Costa coffee while I was waiting

Does this mean elec cars consuption has to be measured in MPA (Miles per americano?)

[blueg33]

SpeckledJim said:

feef said:

kambites said:

feef said:

I have thought that charging points ON the boats or train would be a no-brainer, even if they charged a premium for their use.

The trains, certainly since they're mains electric anyway. I doubt the ferries have the generation capacity to fast-charge a significant proportion of the cars on them so that'd be considerably more expensive to implement.

Would work on overnight crossings where it wouldn't need to be a fast-charge

Would a ferry have the kind of generator that can deliver, say, 120kW to twenty charging BEV's?


(on further consideration, yes, of course it would)

Would there be a fire risk, recharging lots of LIon batteries in a confined space? In our apartments for disabled people the fire department specifies that mobility scooters must not be charged in the hallways. We have to provide fire protected charging locations

[SpeckledJim]

blueg33 said:

SpeckledJim said:

feef said:

kambites said:

feef said:

I have thought that charging points ON the boats or train would be a no-brainer, even if they charged a premium for their use.

The trains, certainly since they're mains electric anyway. I doubt the ferries have the generation capacity to fast-charge a significant proportion of the cars on them so that'd be considerably more expensive to implement.

Would work on overnight crossings where it wouldn't need to be a fast-charge

Would a ferry have the kind of generator that can deliver, say, 120kW to twenty charging BEV's?


(on further consideration, yes, of course it would)

Would there be a fire risk, recharging lots of LIon batteries in a confined space? In our apartments for disabled people the fire department specifies that mobility scooters must not be charged in the hallways. We have to provide fire protected charging locations

Dunno. There's very little risk of a charging BEV causing a fire, hence us being allowed to do it.

You're allowed to do it in car parks, so is the deck of a ferry different in a relevant way? (greater consequences, yes, but greater risk?)

Dunno.

[blueg33]

I know a guy who is involved in the elec car industry specifically around batteries and charging, I'll ask him when I see him next week

[anonymous-user]

Gotta add that as much as I enjoyed thrashing the leaf it was actually the 0 to 30 acceleration that put the smile on my face. The lack of gear change jerkiness and total silence around town were also big pluses.

3 quid to do 100 miles instead of 15 is bang on and if my commute wasn't 2 miles a day I would definitely have one.

Don't buy electric to thrash (unless it's a Tesla). Get one to relax and save money.

[rxe]

SpeckledJim said:

Dunno. There's very little risk of a charging BEV causing a fire, hence us being allowed to do it.

You're allowed to do it in car parks, so is the deck of a ferry different in a relevant way? (greater consequences, yes, but greater risk?)

Dunno.

There is very low risk to charging, just as there is very low risk filling up a car with petrol - but you’re not allowed to muck about with jerry cans on ferries. The difference is the consequences. If a car catches fire in a car park, then everyone walks away and films it on their phones. If a car catches fire in a ferry (or in a Eurostar carriage), you’ve got a big problem. A lithium fire on a Eurostar carriage would be a utter disaster.

I’ve also been surprised at Teslas bimbling along at 65 - 70 on the motorway, but it would appear that caning it on long journeys is counter productive. I always assumed that if I had a car that could do 0 - 60 in 2 seconds, I’d be spanking it at every opportunity.

[LG9k]

feef said:

There is the argument that if you've been driving long enough to need a recharge, then you should probably stop for a rest anyway. With a Tesla or one of the others that support decent fast charging, a 20 minute fast-charge break should be sufficient to see a reasonable charge level

See ntiz' post, he had to stop 9 times on his, admittedly long, journey. 9 x 20 minutes = 3 hours extra.

[feef]

LG9k said:

feef said:

There is the argument that if you've been driving long enough to need a recharge, then you should probably stop for a rest anyway. With a Tesla or one of the others that support decent fast charging, a 20 minute fast-charge break should be sufficient to see a reasonable charge level

See ntiz' post, he had to stop 9 times on his, admittedly long, journey. 9 x 20 minutes = 3 hours extra.

My point is that following recommended break times, we should all take more breaks than we do. It's not about an EV taking longer, it's more about an EV ensuring we take sufficient breaks which may not be being taken now

[rxe]

Is there some sort of correlation between EV drivers and prostate issues? They seem to need to take a piss every hour and a half, and it takes them 20 minutes to do it. I’ll accept that doing 600 miles across France in one hit is probably pushing it, but I don’t think I’ve ever needed to stop to piss in three decades of driving in the U.K. Except with kids in the back of course, they need to piss like mice do....

[SpeckledJim]

rxe said:

Is there some sort of correlation between EV drivers and prostate issues? They seem to need to take a piss every hour and a half, and it takes them 20 minutes to do it. I’ll accept that doing 600 miles across France in one hit is probably pushing it, but I don’t think I’ve ever needed to stop to piss in three decades of driving in the U.K. Except with kids in the back of course, they need to piss like mice do....

I think for the very occasional times that journeys like that are necessary, it's probably just worth hiring a diesel Insignia and leaving the BEV at home. The money you save on petrol more than pays for occasional car hire.

Or if you've got a nice BEV, your mates will be queuing up to offer you their normal car as a short-term swap.

[SpeckledJim]

rxe said:

SpeckledJim said:

Dunno. There's very little risk of a charging BEV causing a fire, hence us being allowed to do it.

You're allowed to do it in car parks, so is the deck of a ferry different in a relevant way? (greater consequences, yes, but greater risk?)

Dunno.

There is very low risk to charging, just as there is very low risk filling up a car with petrol - but you’re not allowed to muck about with jerry cans on ferries. The difference is the consequences. If a car catches fire in a car park, then everyone walks away and films it on their phones. If a car catches fire in a ferry (or in a Eurostar carriage), you’ve got a big problem. A lithium fire on a Eurostar carriage would be a utter disaster.

I’ve also been surprised at Teslas bimbling along at 65 - 70 on the motorway, but it would appear that caning it on long journeys is counter productive. I always assumed that if I had a car that could do 0 - 60 in 2 seconds, I’d be spanking it at every opportunity.

I think a new GT2 or Ferrari seems to be a much greater fire risk than a BEV, but Eurostar don't place restrictions on those.

Agree the consequences are very high. But surely the risk is absolutely minimal?

[kambites]

LG9k said:

See ntiz' post, he had to stop 9 times on his, admittedly long, journey. 9 x 20 minutes = 3 hours extra.

Indeed, EVs are not really suitable for driving very long distances at high speeds, but I don't think anyone has ever really claimed that they are. I've no idea what percentage of drivers will ever attempt a trip that long by car in one day but I suspect it's pretty small.

Personally in the 20 years I've been driving so far, I've done one trip which would have required something like a Tesla to be recharged mid-way and on that trip I spend a good 2 hours stationary anyway because I can't concentrate well enough to drive for more than a couple of hours with no break so for me at least, a "300 mile" EV would not be a limitation.

I do do quite a lot of trips around the 200 mile mark, so I wouldn't buy an EV which couldn't handle that in poor conditions without being recharged.

Everyone's requirements will be slightly different, but I think somewhere around the 2-300 mile real-world mark is going to be the tipping point for a lot of people in terms of the practicality side of things. Past that I think we'll see more focus on driving the price and weight down rather than the range up.

Edited by kambites on Friday 25th January 10:24