Model 3 UK orders.

[SWoll]

jamoor said:

Sambucket said:

It’s because the net result is still better value for many (not all by any means) car buyers in the 450bhp+ Ev market.

Doesn’t even have to be EV doesn’t the m3p have the best performance in its class?

Best for price, performance, interior space, standard spec and running costs in its class (mid sized, 5 seater).

Based on that I can put up with a few niggles although agree that things really do need to improve.

[RobDickinson]

Safest, best tech, most efficient etc also.

Yes still things that can be improved, big improvement since 2017 already (see Edmunds award).

[Heres Johnny]

GryllsBear said:

It amazes me that people do give Tesla so much slack. They should do better and can do better.

It’s pretty lazy to always just point at other manufacturers and say if they’re doing it then it’s acceptable.

It’s not acceptable and the standard they currently push out is well below I’m sure what they hope to push out.

Being too fanatical and accepting will only lead them to cut more corners and only ever push out software improvements.

A relatively new company should be held to scrutiny. If they can’t get basics like this right what does that say for the cars longevity?

Strive to improve is better than accepting sub par as the best they can.

We’ve all seen what happened to Mercedes in the rusty low quality years. Tesla really can’t afford to let thing slip too much when still trying to attract and retain more conservative and particularly business customers.

It is only an undertray but it does seem to be adding to an already fairly long list of Tesla common snags.

Still, it’s always been worth waiting for the first facelift of any model as that’s usually the point most of the teething troubles are sorted and the cars start getting good. Same for any manufacturer.

Model Y could be a very good car in this respect.

The thing that amazes me is the same people that acknowledge its a bit buggy in places but hey, its all heading in the right direction then turn on a feature that is driving the car along past schools, in towns, at high speeds and presumably praying it doesn't go wrong sufficiently badly before they can react.

[RobDickinson]

Heres Johnny said:

The thing that amazes me is the same people that acknowledge its a bit buggy in places but hey, its all heading in the right direction then turn on a feature that is driving the car along past schools, in towns, at high speeds and presumably praying it doesn't go wrong sufficiently badly before they can react.

You mean trusting the class leading pedestrian avoidance system?

[Heres Johnny]

RobDickinson said:

You mean trusting the class leading pedestrian avoidance system?

I was thinking of the class leading system didn’t spot of of these vehicles or even car parks in front of them - these just being a sample

Just little bugglets of course... nothing to worry about..

[RobDickinson]

That must have taken some time, keeps you busy aye.

[jamoor]

Heres Johnny said:

RobDickinson said:

You mean trusting the class leading pedestrian avoidance system?

I was thinking of the class leading system didn’t spot of of these vehicles or even car parks in front of them - these just being a sample

Just little bugglets of course... nothing to worry about..

I wonder how many pictures of <insert brand here> that have been in an accident that we can find

[PeterGadsby]

All cars have issues, I had a Ford Focus RS Mk3 and Ford fitted the wrong head gasket to a batch of cars and had to replace engines, head gaskets it happens.

A good OEM will fix the problems promptly and efficiently A bad one (like Vauxhall who didn't deal with Zafira's catching fire) don't

from my understanding from the Tesla forums, the majority of issues are fixed promptly.

With regards to the crashes above, I think those could have been caused by people assuming autopilot will work perfectly. To my mind at the moment this system is pretty much a slightly more advanced adaptive cruise control & people aren't treating it as such which can cause accidents.

Just my 2p

- Pete

[Heres Johnny]

jamoor said:

I wonder how many pictures of <insert brand here> that have been in an accident that we can find

All of these were the ‘world class safe’ AP system driving. And it takes seconds to find a lot more. These were just picked because they include crashes into police cars, fire engines and buildings.

If you can show me pictures of any other make where their lane keep and distance control software resulted in such accidents please share.

My point is simple, Tesla push the software envelope hard, so trust it at your peril. It’s why AP which is used on roads typically 4x safer than average (based on uk motorways stats, maybe only 3x - 5x safer in other countries) isn’t quite 2x safer, ie on a like for like basis using AP is more dangerous than not. Yet people still use it in inappropriate situations, and Tesla lets them with only a tiny line buried in the manual telling you not to

Passive safety is a different thing

[Dave Hedgehog]

Car started developing a steering noise about a week ago, it’s got very loud quickly

https://imgur.com/gallery/3TlLX1O

[Heres Johnny]

Sambucket said:

Can you post your sources on highway safety being worse than manual please Johnny? Ive been looking for high quality analysis on this.

You were talking about driving pasts schools in your original post, which presumable is more relevant to passive safety features

Edited by Sambucket on Tuesday 17th December 08:23

The logic is set out here including references to statistics and assumptions to compare and contrast

Tesla don't release the numbers by country, road type or even version of AP etc so there is some interpretation and assumption as you might expect, and I'm happy for some of the detailed logic to be challenged, but I don't believe there is anything fundementally wrong in the broad analysis. The TL; DR is active AP has goes about 50% further before having an accident, but the class of road its most commonly engaged would suggest it should be much higher, as high as 4x further.

https://tesla-info.com/blog/tesla-safety-report-an...

[mids]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Car started developing a steering noise about a week ago, it’s got very loud quickly

https://imgur.com/gallery/3TlLX1O

Eeeep - what do Tesla say about it ?

[Dave Hedgehog]

mids said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

Car started developing a steering noise about a week ago, it’s got very loud quickly

https://imgur.com/gallery/3TlLX1O

Eeeep - what do Tesla say about it ?

Earliest appointment 20 Jan

[jamoor]

Heres Johnny said:

jamoor said:

I wonder how many pictures of <insert brand here> that have been in an accident that we can find

All of these were the ‘world class safe’ AP system driving. And it takes seconds to find a lot more. These were just picked because they include crashes into police cars, fire engines and buildings.

If you can show me pictures of any other make where their lane keep and distance control software resulted in such accidents please share.

My point is simple, Tesla push the software envelope hard, so trust it at your peril. It’s why AP which is used on roads typically 4x safer than average (based on uk motorways stats, maybe only 3x - 5x safer in other countries) isn’t quite 2x safer, ie on a like for like basis using AP is more dangerous than not. Yet people still use it in inappropriate situations, and Tesla lets them with only a tiny line buried in the manual telling you not to

Passive safety is a different thing

So which is safer then, that AP system or driving using manual controls?

[gangzoom]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Car started developing a steering noise about a week ago, it’s got very loud quickly

https://imgur.com/gallery/3TlLX1O

That's an upper control arm failure, Google Tesla and control arm failure and you'll see its a common fault on the S/X.

Had it our X recently, it'll keep on getting worse to the point where even a tiny bump in the road will cause that noise to appear even if you don't move the steering wheel.

I called up Tesla Recovery on a Sunday afternoon when ours got that bad, and I explained I wasn't happy to drive the car with my family in till its sorted, they sent a tow truck to picked up the car that afternoon and it was repaired/ready to collect Tuesday Lunchtime. I was also offered a loan car from Enterprise delivered to my driveway that Sunday.

Another example of awful parts design/quality control, but actually surprisingly good customer service.

From a cost/bottom line view its much cheaper for Tesla to just stop trying to save money on bad design/parts rather than having to sort things out post delivery with all the additional customer support costs.

[Heres Johnny]

jamoor said:

So which is safer then, that AP system or driving using manual controls?

I believe, based on the evidence I can see, manual controls with the passive safety systems. The use of active AP is predominently only on the safest roads when it will allow you to engage it, and yet the accident rate is only slightly higher than the all roads average including busy towns, country roads, snow and icy weather, terrential rain, heavy spray, fog, times when the active AP would not even engage.

[jamoor]

Heres Johnny said:

jamoor said:

So which is safer then, that AP system or driving using manual controls?

I believe, based on the evidence I can see, manual controls with the passive safety systems. The use of active AP is predominently only on the safest roads when it will allow you to engage it, and yet the accident rate is only slightly higher than the all roads average including busy towns, country roads, snow and icy weather, terrential rain, heavy spray, fog, times when the active AP would not even engage.

Oh right, let us see the evidence that you are also seeing then too as it will be a very valuable contribution to this discussion.

[gangzoom]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Earliest appointment 20 Jan

I really woudlnt put up waiting another month for that to be sorted. If you do have an accident/issue, Tesla have a track record of blaming the owner. They have tried to blame a owner for kerbing the wheel as a cause of lower control arm snapping in the past.

https://www.businessinsider.com/aladdin-stars-prob...

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 17th December 09:50

[anonymous-user]

Relying just on my experience AP seems much safer on motorway. However I would concede Tesla’s reluctance to procure segmented data is suspicious and points to a different story.

[SWoll]

For me AP/FSD was never even on the list of reasons for getting the M3P. Feels like a gimmick just like auto parking, summon etc always have so after a quick play with it doubt I'll use again.

Happy to drive the car myself in the knowledge that the safety systems are there to assist me in certain circumstances.