Discussion
ds666 said:
If you lease , what does that matter ?
If I recall correctly , the vast majority of cars depreciate ? What’s your point ?
Have a big LOL for the first questionIf I recall correctly , the vast majority of cars depreciate ? What’s your point ?
Some depreciate, some do less
My point is that "mpg" can be a tiny factor in running costs and a lot of people seem to completely ignore depreciation
Looking at options on these. Anybody any idea what "LED headlights with function on demand preparation" might mean? I assume that they have auto on and off as standard but various other functions might be added? Also, can anybody tell me what the "comfort remote preconditioning" adds over the standard "remote preconditioning"?
I notice they give you a Podpoint wallbox as a no cost option on the Audi website, would this be offered on a lease also, or only to a purchaser?
Thanks in advance.
I notice they give you a Podpoint wallbox as a no cost option on the Audi website, would this be offered on a lease also, or only to a purchaser?
Thanks in advance.
dmsims said:
ds666 said:
If you lease , what does that matter ?
If I recall correctly , the vast majority of cars depreciate ? What’s your point ?
Have a big LOL for the first questionIf I recall correctly , the vast majority of cars depreciate ? What’s your point ?
Some depreciate, some do less
My point is that "mpg" can be a tiny factor in running costs and a lot of people seem to completely ignore depreciation
And I quite agree ref depreciation - always makes me laugh when someone trades up to a new car to save a few mpg and loses £k as they drive out of the showroom ...
Zirconium said:
Looking at options on these. Anybody any idea what "LED headlights with function on demand preparation" might mean? I assume that they have auto on and off as standard but various other functions might be added?
.
Std headlights are auto on if required - maybe the option relates to the auto high beam /matrix operation . .
On a similar point the E Tron has " all weather " lights that you have to switch on manually . Now I know what front fog lights are , but all weather lights ? Handbook tells you switch operates all weather lights , not what they are for . If they are " all weather " wtf aren't they on with the headlights all the time , why an extra switch .... rant over .
ds666 said:
Std headlights are auto on if required - maybe the option relates to the auto high beam /matrix operation .
On a similar point the E Tron has " all weather " lights that you have to switch on manually . Now I know what front fog lights are , but all weather lights ? Handbook tells you switch operates all weather lights , not what they are for . If they are " all weather " wtf aren't they on with the headlights all the time , why an extra switch .... rant over .
It’s a term used for the look at me lightsOn a similar point the E Tron has " all weather " lights that you have to switch on manually . Now I know what front fog lights are , but all weather lights ? Handbook tells you switch operates all weather lights , not what they are for . If they are " all weather " wtf aren't they on with the headlights all the time , why an extra switch .... rant over .
gangzoom said:
That all maybe true but its still a nice car in the metal.
Passed one on the commute to work today, looks just nicer than the Q8 with its monster fish mouth grill.
It certainly looks like an Audi, if you are into that. The front grille looks a bit stupid on an EV but I guess that's what Audi drivers want. I thought the interior was very high quality but boring. This was an Irish spec one though so it might be better in the UK.Passed one on the commute to work today, looks just nicer than the Q8 with its monster fish mouth grill.
Tbh I (and others) can be quite harsh on Audi, but Merc didn't do that much better.
It's just frustrating to me to see that a non-company like Tesla can get it so right, Jaguar can make it work as a classic car company, but is tiny compared to VAG.
I'm absolutely convinced that the Etron is a part of the reason Tesla stock is that high.
The years of shouting "Tesla is done the moment the big boys come to play" just fell flat when Audi released the numbers on the etron.
It's just frustrating to me to see that a non-company like Tesla can get it so right, Jaguar can make it work as a classic car company, but is tiny compared to VAG.
I'm absolutely convinced that the Etron is a part of the reason Tesla stock is that high.
The years of shouting "Tesla is done the moment the big boys come to play" just fell flat when Audi released the numbers on the etron.
ZesPak said:
Tbh I (and others) can be quite harsh on Audi, but Merc didn't do that much better.
It's just frustrating to me to see that a non-company like Tesla can get it so right, Jaguar can make it work as a classic car company, but is tiny compared to VAG.
I'm absolutely convinced that the Etron is a part of the reason Tesla stock is that high.
The years of shouting "Tesla is done the moment the big boys come to play" just fell flat when Audi released the numbers on the etron.
As has been said on here many times , all non-Tesla car companies have massive investment in ICE tech and therefore cannot simply switch to alternatives without massive effects on their balance sheets . Tesla , as a new entrant , doesn't have that worry ... It's just frustrating to me to see that a non-company like Tesla can get it so right, Jaguar can make it work as a classic car company, but is tiny compared to VAG.
I'm absolutely convinced that the Etron is a part of the reason Tesla stock is that high.
The years of shouting "Tesla is done the moment the big boys come to play" just fell flat when Audi released the numbers on the etron.
Additionally , ev performance on objective numbers is a game changer compared to ICE and current ICE co's would be stupid to undermine their current offerings until the ev/ice tipping point arrives .
But I think it is a bit rash to suggest that Tesla will effectively put every other car company out of business , which seems to be implied all the time .
Of the one think that matters most to some EV drivers , Tesla has a massive advantage at the moment - their charging infrastructure . If that isn't important to you , all other ev's should be on the radar ...
If it doesn't matter , Audi , Jaguar , Kia et al offer a good EV choice .
ds666 said:
Additionally , ev performance on objective numbers is a game changer compared to ICE and current ICE co's would be stupid to undermine their current offerings until the ev/ice tipping point arrives .
Agreed, but I like to buy something from which I know that the people designing and building it were only limited by a budget, not by a marketing department and accountants.ds666 said:
But I think it is a bit rash to suggest that Tesla will effectively put every other car company out of business , which seems to be implied all the time .
Of the one think that matters most to some EV drivers , Tesla has a massive advantage at the moment - their charging infrastructure . If that isn't important to you , all other ev's should be on the radar ...
If it doesn't matter , Audi , Jaguar , Kia et al offer a good EV choice .
At this time only because they stay away from the market Tesla is in. In terms of practicality, speed and infotainment they are also ahead. I think eventually the SuC network would be 4th on my list.Of the one think that matters most to some EV drivers , Tesla has a massive advantage at the moment - their charging infrastructure . If that isn't important to you , all other ev's should be on the radar ...
If it doesn't matter , Audi , Jaguar , Kia et al offer a good EV choice .
I cross shopped a Model S, I Pace and etron, but probably a lot of people these days want an SUV, so the Model S becomes the Model X and I can imagine opinions on the looks are divisive.
The car manufacturers have time, it's a slow market. But if you forget the past you are doomed to repeat it. Kodak, Blockbuster, Nokia, RIM are just a couple of examples.
We will see when the Ford, Polestar and Model Y go up against each other.
The Model Y isn't the best looking of the bunch and it looks like the others are going to at leas match it spec for price.
Zirconium said:
Looking at options on these. Anybody any idea what "LED headlights with function on demand preparation" might mean? I assume that they have auto on and off as standard but various other functions might be added?
This means the car is fitted with matrix led headlamps as standard, but they aren’t active. If you want matrix headlamps in the future, you pay Audi and they remotely “unlock” them for you.
dmsims said:
ds666 said:
If you lease , what does that matter ?
If I recall correctly , the vast majority of cars depreciate ? What’s your point ?
Have a big LOL for the first questionIf I recall correctly , the vast majority of cars depreciate ? What’s your point ?
Some depreciate, some do less
My point is that "mpg" can be a tiny factor in running costs and a lot of people seem to completely ignore depreciation
If you lease a new car with a decent mileage allowance (or excess to pay at the end) it costs money.
If you buy a shed and put 30k miles a year on it, it will cost money.
If you buy a nearly new car and do the same, it will cost money.
There isn't really a way of avoiding this cost.
An EV under the new BIK rates gives a business owner or company car user an extremely cheap form of transport.
ZesPak said:
The car manufacturers have time, it's a slow market. But if you forget the past you are doomed to repeat it. Kodak, Blockbuster, Nokia, RIM are
.
You are right regarding the time - they have a fixed deadline in some countries where new ICE sales will be banned at some point in the future . Not sure you company analogies are valid - Kodak sold film , film died , Blockbuster video , same , Rim dropped the ball in an area that concerned people ( reliability ) and didn't adopt support for apps etc . .
Car companies all make cars . The propulsion will change and I can't see why Tesla will put them all out of business ( they may , however , do that themselves by being too slow to change as you suggest) .
Good to have a choice ....
ds666 said:
As has been said on here many times , all non-Tesla car companies have massive investment in ICE tech and therefore cannot simply switch to alternatives without massive effects on their balance sheets .
Nah. It takes a long time to develop a decent one (not just a fossil conversion, a proper dedicated EV platform) and they all want to develop some of their own systems to avoid having to pay the Chinese patent royalties since they have now missed the boat on that. Then they have train staff and get maintenance and servicing up to speed. Look at how awful Tesla servicing was for the first decade.They are also keen to avoid the problems that Tesla somehow got away with because they are Tesla. Can you imagine if Audi had similar problems, say every e-Tron needing a new motor every 10k miles or the door handles all failing? So they need time to properly test everything.
What is a shame is that Nissan haven't captialized on their early lead. They were there before Tesla and had an affordable, practical EV back in 2011. The Model 3 isn't affordable at all, a Leaf is half the price. But they haven't really developed it enough and kinda fallen behind, when really they should be offering several EV models by now.
aestetix1 said:
Nah. It takes a long time to develop a decent one (not just a fossil conversion, a proper dedicated EV platform)
Really? For almost a decade they all talked about it as if it was nothing. aestetix1 said:
Look at how awful Tesla servicing was for the first decade.
Actually it was quite alright back then. Now with the increased volume they do have to work on it. aestetix1 said:
They are also keen to avoid the problems that Tesla somehow got away with because they are Tesla. Can you imagine if Audi had similar problems, say every e-Tron needing a new motor every 10k miles or the door handles all failing? So they need time to properly test everything.
A comment like this is borderline delusional. Audi's have had some if the worst structural problems in loads of their cars for the past decade.
aestetix1 said:
What is a shame is that Nissan haven't captialized on their early lead. They were there before Tesla and had an affordable, practical EV back in 2011. The Model 3 isn't affordable at all, a Leaf is half the price. But they haven't really developed it enough and kinda fallen behind, when really they should be offering several EV models by now.
The leaf is still a good value ev but indeed, Nissan/Renault could have done better. Maybe held back in the market by the badge? Imagine the etron with a Skoda badge. I take it you were not paying much attention to Tesla until recently. I don't know about Audi's issues but the Model S was terrible for the first few years and the X still isn't right.
Anyway, the fact that some manufacturers said they could easily do an EV shows just how clueless they were about it. Nissan and Tesla put a lot of effort in to make theirs decent. You can't just slap an EV drivetrain in a fossil... Well you can, but then you end up with an Audi Turd, almost unbelievably inefficient and unable to take advantage of many of the benefits of being an EV.
And there is the patent thing. The Japanese are in the same boat, they really wanted hydrogen to take off because they have patents for that like they did for hybrids. But no, it's EVs that won and now the government is trying to coordinate efforts to catch up.
Anyway, the fact that some manufacturers said they could easily do an EV shows just how clueless they were about it. Nissan and Tesla put a lot of effort in to make theirs decent. You can't just slap an EV drivetrain in a fossil... Well you can, but then you end up with an Audi Turd, almost unbelievably inefficient and unable to take advantage of many of the benefits of being an EV.
And there is the patent thing. The Japanese are in the same boat, they really wanted hydrogen to take off because they have patents for that like they did for hybrids. But no, it's EVs that won and now the government is trying to coordinate efforts to catch up.
aestetix1 said:
I take it you were not paying much attention to Tesla until recently. I don't know about Audi's issues but the Model S was terrible for the first few years and the X still isn't right.
True, but most of those issues didn't have to do anything with making an electric car, more with "making a car", something the others are supposed to be good at.I agree though, one of my biggest gripes, as I said, with the etron (can you stop translating it to English, it stopped being funny long before you started doing it) is not that it's a bad car, but that it's not as good as it could have been. It could have been faster. It could have been better packaged and it could have been more efficient. Now it's just "meh". Another option and another slot filled in the endless sea of their models.
VAG should have changed their tagline over a decade ago: For accountants, by accountants.
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