Hydrogen refueling is here
Discussion
The solutions are there, electricity is pretty ubiquitous, it'll take some time to put in the hardware but then it'll take ~10 years for a significant portion of the fleet to switch.
Most people will only need to charge once a week or so and in 10 years time charging speeds will be much faster too.
Most people will only need to charge once a week or so and in 10 years time charging speeds will be much faster too.
poing said:
In an ideal world we would have pop up chargers/lamppost chargers but that requires serious amounts of cabling and planning permission.
No, it doesn't. Firstly, the adoption of LED street lighting means there's sufficient capacity available in the streetlight circuits to allow for low power charging (3kW) that is perfectly sufficient for urban EV use in conjunction with rapid facilities.Secondly, planning permission is an entirely artificial administrative hurdle, it can be as complicated or as simple as the local authority choose it to be.
Evanivitch said:
No, it doesn't. Firstly, the adoption of LED street lighting means there's sufficient capacity available in the streetlight circuits to allow for low power charging (3kW) that is perfectly sufficient for urban EV use in conjunction with rapid facilities.
Secondly, planning permission is an entirely artificial administrative hurdle, it can be as complicated or as simple as the local authority choose it to be.
3kw isn't going to be suitable for a lot of cars, 7kw will be the minimum for a realistic charge rate especially as cars get bigger batteries.Secondly, planning permission is an entirely artificial administrative hurdle, it can be as complicated or as simple as the local authority choose it to be.
The planning permission is also going to be an issue because we are dealing with the British public. They will inevitably complain about these "ugly boxes" popping up on all their pretty little streets just like they complain about all other changes. We've been denied solar panels at work because our building is listed but we have been allowed a single charger pod, just one between the 50 cars that park there.
I've never known a local authority make anything simple.
poing said:
3kw isn't going to be suitable for a lot of cars, 7kw will be the minimum for a realistic charge rate especially as cars get bigger batteries.
Why? What's the average commute? What's the required energy to do that journey?The majority of commuters could literally get buy using a 13A socket. Think about it, your car is at work for 8 hours? Home for at least 10 hours? Even at 20kWh, that's 50-80 miles range overnight.
poing said:
The planning permission is also going to be an issue because we are dealing with the British public. They will inevitably complain about these "ugly boxes" popping up on all their pretty little streets just like they complain about all other changes. We've been denied solar panels at work because our building is listed but we have been allowed a single charger pod, just one between the 50 cars that park there.
I've never known a local authority make anything simple.
Meanwhile the local authority mandated chargers at one site so we have four, we voluntarily installed 4 more at another site, and the offices around us are covered in solar panels.I've never known a local authority make anything simple.
You're making generalisations that don't play true for the majority.
otolith said:
I don’t understand the hard-on for hydrogen. They’re just slow electric cars you can’t charge at home.
Because enviroment. We need to cut down overall emissions, and BEV's can't do that. It is highly questionable that are BEV's better than ICE cars for enviroment.Thats the reason why we need hydrogen cars. They can be genuinely clean transportation. Besides fuel cell cars are not bad cars, they have a great range and they are much cheaper to produce than BEV's. According to Toyota/Hyundai fuell cell cars are cheaper to produce than ICE cars in 2025.
My prediction is that in the future luxury cars are BEV's and common people/commercial will drive hydrogen cars.
LasseV said:
Because enviroment. We need to cut down overall emissions, and BEV's can't do that. It is highly questionable that are BEV's better than ICE cars for enviroment.
Thats the reason why we need hydrogen cars. They can be genuinely clean transportation. Besides fuel cell cars are not bad cars, they have a great range and they are much cheaper to produce than BEV's. According to Toyota/Hyundai fuell cell cars are cheaper to produce than ICE cars in 2025.
My prediction is that in the future luxury cars are BEV's and common people/commercial will drive hydrogen cars.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Thats the reason why we need hydrogen cars. They can be genuinely clean transportation. Besides fuel cell cars are not bad cars, they have a great range and they are much cheaper to produce than BEV's. According to Toyota/Hyundai fuell cell cars are cheaper to produce than ICE cars in 2025.
My prediction is that in the future luxury cars are BEV's and common people/commercial will drive hydrogen cars.
LasseV said:
Because enviroment. We need to cut down overall emissions, and BEV's can't do that. It is highly questionable that are BEV's better than ICE cars for enviroment.
Thats the reason why we need hydrogen cars. They can be genuinely clean transportation. Besides fuel cell cars are not bad cars, they have a great range and they are much cheaper to produce than BEV's. According to Toyota/Hyundai fuell cell cars are cheaper to produce than ICE cars in 2025.
My prediction is that in the future luxury cars are BEV's and common people/commercial will drive hydrogen cars.
Oh dear, this nonsense again. Just spend 5 minutes on Google, because you're way off the mark.Thats the reason why we need hydrogen cars. They can be genuinely clean transportation. Besides fuel cell cars are not bad cars, they have a great range and they are much cheaper to produce than BEV's. According to Toyota/Hyundai fuell cell cars are cheaper to produce than ICE cars in 2025.
My prediction is that in the future luxury cars are BEV's and common people/commercial will drive hydrogen cars.
I know this isn’t now but I see the distant future as BEV.
To accompany that. Car share like zipcar or autonomous for central locations with the autonomous bit taking the vehicle off to a disused shopping centre where it has been repurposed to parking and charging. Using Hydrogen to generate centralised electricity. And using renewables to make Hydrogen as an energy store. No when needed or peak times issues just an efficient way to store energy and distribute through a largely in place system.
Yes there are issues and it’s not soon. But I believe it could happen. Oh and keep IC to the enthusiast with special order fuel.
To accompany that. Car share like zipcar or autonomous for central locations with the autonomous bit taking the vehicle off to a disused shopping centre where it has been repurposed to parking and charging. Using Hydrogen to generate centralised electricity. And using renewables to make Hydrogen as an energy store. No when needed or peak times issues just an efficient way to store energy and distribute through a largely in place system.
Yes there are issues and it’s not soon. But I believe it could happen. Oh and keep IC to the enthusiast with special order fuel.
LasseV said:
otolith said:
I don’t understand the hard-on for hydrogen. They’re just slow electric cars you can’t charge at home.
Because enviroment. We need to cut down overall emissions, and BEV's can't do that. It is highly questionable that are BEV's better than ICE cars for enviroment.Thats the reason why we need hydrogen cars. They can be genuinely clean transportation. Besides fuel cell cars are not bad cars, they have a great range and they are much cheaper to produce than BEV's. According to Toyota/Hyundai fuell cell cars are cheaper to produce than ICE cars in 2025.
My prediction is that in the future luxury cars are BEV's and common people/commercial will drive hydrogen cars.
LasseV said:
Because enviroment. We need to cut down overall emissions, and BEV's can't do that. It is highly questionable that are BEV's better than ICE cars for enviroment.
Thats the reason why we need hydrogen cars. They can be genuinely clean transportation. Besides fuel cell cars are not bad cars, they have a great range and they are much cheaper to produce than BEV's. According to Toyota/Hyundai fuell cell cars are cheaper to produce than ICE cars in 2025.
My prediction is that in the future luxury cars are BEV's and common people/commercial will drive hydrogen cars.
You’re clueless so please carry on Thats the reason why we need hydrogen cars. They can be genuinely clean transportation. Besides fuel cell cars are not bad cars, they have a great range and they are much cheaper to produce than BEV's. According to Toyota/Hyundai fuell cell cars are cheaper to produce than ICE cars in 2025.
My prediction is that in the future luxury cars are BEV's and common people/commercial will drive hydrogen cars.
I always enjoy the Dunning-Kruger effect.RobDickinson said:
LasseV said:
Because enviroment. We need to cut down overall emissions, and BEV's can't do that. It is highly questionable that are BEV's better than ICE cars for enviroment.
Thats the reason why we need hydrogen cars. They can be genuinely clean transportation. Besides fuel cell cars are not bad cars, they have a great range and they are much cheaper to produce than BEV's. According to Toyota/Hyundai fuell cell cars are cheaper to produce than ICE cars in 2025.
My prediction is that in the future luxury cars are BEV's and common people/commercial will drive hydrogen cars.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Thats the reason why we need hydrogen cars. They can be genuinely clean transportation. Besides fuel cell cars are not bad cars, they have a great range and they are much cheaper to produce than BEV's. According to Toyota/Hyundai fuell cell cars are cheaper to produce than ICE cars in 2025.
My prediction is that in the future luxury cars are BEV's and common people/commercial will drive hydrogen cars.
RobDickinson said:
3kw is plenty for most people most of the time, irrespective of battery size.
Has worked fine for me with the i3 for the past 9 months doing about 1250 miles per month (double average UK mileage).
Even with the Tesla plugging in at 10PM gives a good 80 mile boost by 6am the following morning. More than enough for 99%+ of drivers.
SWoll said:
Has worked fine for me with the i3 for the past 9 months doing about 1250 miles per month (double average UK mileage).
Even with the Tesla plugging in at 10PM gives a good 80 mile boost by 6am the following morning. More than enough for 99%+ of drivers.
EV's are still massively limiting unless you have a 2nd car (which a lot of EV owners have)
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