Discussion
EddieSteadyGo said:
SWoll said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
That is an interesting test I agree. Tests like these reveal one of the issues with re-purposing an ICE car into being an EV. Quite a few aspects are very good, but particularly in terms of efficiency, there is much more work to do.
However, it is also worth saying that the Tesla managed much less than 200 miles, which isn't great for a main car.
It's understandable still why many people feel the state of EV technology isn't right for them just yet.
The Tesla used for the test was running mudflaps, non standard wheels and tyres and due to significant aount of supercharging has 6% battery degradation so a new standard car should expect a lot closer to 200 according to Bjorn.However, it is also worth saying that the Tesla managed much less than 200 miles, which isn't great for a main car.
It's understandable still why many people feel the state of EV technology isn't right for them just yet.
But many who buy a new Tesla will want to keep it long term. And it needs to perform over the long term. So doing much less than 200 miles on a full charge at 70mph when it is raining still isn't good, even if it is better than the current EV competition.
Polestar definitely need to work on that efficiency though as anyone considering replacing their 320d/C220d company car with one due to the BIK savings is going to be in for a shock.
Edited by SWoll on Thursday 8th October 12:39
EddieSteadyGo said:
Yes, if it were a brand new Model 3 it would have been better. And it was still much better than the Polestar.
But many who buy a new Tesla will want to keep it long term.
The concept that people should treat EVs as essentially disposable gadgets really is quite hilarious and make a total joke of any 'green' pretence people have about EVs.But many who buy a new Tesla will want to keep it long term.
Infact is quite alarming there are people who think the answer to battery degradation is to dispose of the product and get a new one.
gangzoom said:
The concept that people should treat EVs as essentially disposable gadgets really is quite hilarious and make a total joke of any 'green' pretence people have about EVs.
Infact is quite alarming there are people who think the answer to battery degradation is to dispose of the product and get a new one.
I would guess that at least 50-60% on the roads will be company cars due to the 0% BIK and as such the owners are not picking them to be green... Infact is quite alarming there are people who think the answer to battery degradation is to dispose of the product and get a new one.
I would assume based on the high energy consumption my Polestar will hardly reduce any less emissions than a really economical fossil fuelled car considering its being charged via the national grid.
greggy50 said:
I would assume based on the high energy consumption my Polestar will hardly reduce any less emissions than a really economical fossil fuelled car considering its being charged via the national grid.
- You're comparing a 400bhp car to a "really economical fossil fuel car", and even then you'd have to stretch the numbers as your assumption will be wrong.
- The national grid has huge potential for improvements in that regards. Your ICE car just gets worse.
jason61c said:
I'd say most of them on the road, of all BEC's are due to company car tax. Lets be honest about that.
400bhp cars for 0% bik. its a winner. however I do worry about where year 3 tax will still post that april.
The significant reduction in fuel/maintenance bills and ease of use do also play a significant part I would suggest. 400bhp cars for 0% bik. its a winner. however I do worry about where year 3 tax will still post that april.
Still plenty of private buyers out there and although a number of EV versions do come in far more expensive than their ICE counterparts (especially at the lower end) I'd suggest the model 3 and P2 compare quite favourably against similarly powerful and equipped cars in their class price wise?
jjwilde said:
This is just making the MG estate look like the real winner. Half the price and maybe the same range/better range as the P2? Am I mad to be temped by the MG over a Tesla? The 220mile range on the MG really surprised me. Could I live with public charging for saving £20k...
It's strange times in EV land.
It its strange you have ignored the fact one has 400bhp and the other hasnt! It's strange times in EV land.
JonnyVTEC said:
It its strange you have ignored the fact one has 400bhp and the other hasnt!
Who cares about those couple of seconds extra and performance anyway? You know that has been deemed irrelevant ever since Tesla made the first Model S, right?But the most important part, interior plastics, I bet the P2 is a fair bit better than the MG. The MG will be more like a russian prison, or worse, a Tesla...
ZesPak said:
Who cares about those couple of seconds extra and performance anyway? You know that has been deemed irrelevant ever since Tesla made the first Model S, right?
But the most important part, interior plastics, I bet the P2 is a fair bit better than the MG. The MG will be more like a russian prison, or worse, a Tesla...
You'd think it would be bad, but the owners really seem to rate it and it has a decent spec. The Chinese really like their tech so their cars are often well specced. But the most important part, interior plastics, I bet the P2 is a fair bit better than the MG. The MG will be more like a russian prison, or worse, a Tesla...
0-60 in 7 seconds isn't bad either.
I am curious about it.
SWoll said:
jason61c said:
I'd say most of them on the road, of all BEC's are due to company car tax. Lets be honest about that.
400bhp cars for 0% bik. its a winner. however I do worry about where year 3 tax will still post that april.
The significant reduction in fuel/maintenance bills and ease of use do also play a significant part I would suggest. 400bhp cars for 0% bik. its a winner. however I do worry about where year 3 tax will still post that april.
Still plenty of private buyers out there and although a number of EV versions do come in far more expensive than their ICE counterparts (especially at the lower end) I'd suggest the model 3 and P2 compare quite favourably against similarly powerful and equipped cars in their class price wise?
jason61c said:
SWoll said:
jason61c said:
I'd say most of them on the road, of all BEC's are due to company car tax. Lets be honest about that.
400bhp cars for 0% bik. its a winner. however I do worry about where year 3 tax will still post that april.
The significant reduction in fuel/maintenance bills and ease of use do also play a significant part I would suggest. 400bhp cars for 0% bik. its a winner. however I do worry about where year 3 tax will still post that april.
Still plenty of private buyers out there and although a number of EV versions do come in far more expensive than their ICE counterparts (especially at the lower end) I'd suggest the model 3 and P2 compare quite favourably against similarly powerful and equipped cars in their class price wise?
SWoll said:
As above, not with the P2 and model 3 LR so much though? Have a look at how much the m340i, C43 amg or Audi S4 retail for with 350-400bhp, 5 seats and AWD. The P2 especially compares very favourably being just as well built, just as well equipped and faster than all 3 of them?
Heresy! You have to compare them to 4 pot diesels with max 150bhp!jason61c said:
I'd say most of them on the road, of all BEC's are due to company car tax. Lets be honest about that.
400bhp cars for 0% bik. its a winner. however I do worry about where year 3 tax will still post that april.
Do you mean what the company car BIK rates will be? It was confirmed earlier this year that the BIK rate for pure EV will stay at 2% in 2023/24 & 2024/25 tax years so we have at least 4.5 years of low BIK rates locked in.400bhp cars for 0% bik. its a winner. however I do worry about where year 3 tax will still post that april.
Collected my temporary Model 3 yesterday.
First positive impressions are that the straight line performance of this base model is plenty for day to day and feels on par with a new 330d or similar so you are quicker than 80% of stuff on the road.
The car handles better than I though it would and corners flat, I was also surprised to see it comes on Pilot Sport tyres. I have been running around in a Base 35 TDI A4 for the last few weeks and it feels leagues ahead in terms of the drive as you would expect.
Negatives for me are the lack of a speedo in front of you which I still find annoying and the fact I don't find the seats comfy at all and wouldnt enjoy them on a long trip. The general build quality and interior also feels very poor coming out of the A4 which I still have on the drive.
Happy I went for the Polestar 2 as I feel it will get rid of the my negative points of this car whilst keeping the benefits of the electric drife train and the quick acceleration etc.
Had the Model 3 a few weeks now and have a few more comments:
Lights - They are terrible
Auto-High Beam - Its very laggy and I don't seem to be able to have high beam on fixed its a choice of auto-high beam which is crap or keeping the stalk held all the time.
Window Wipers - They don't seem as effective as other cars I have drive recently for some reason. The auto-wiper feature is also calibrated poorly and the fact you dont have a dedicated stalk and have to use the screen is very annoying/distracting.
In terms of the range it seems to do the 230 if you drive normally and are not on the motorway if you thrash it a bit and sit at 85 on the motorway that's more like 180 miles which seems reasonable.
The performance of the standard model is plenty to beat most stuff on the road and it handles a lot better than I expected however the general build quality and the other niggles I have experienced make me glad I only have it short term.
The basics fundamentals of the car are good however and I am sure in the future Tesla will crack it.
First positive impressions are that the straight line performance of this base model is plenty for day to day and feels on par with a new 330d or similar so you are quicker than 80% of stuff on the road.
The car handles better than I though it would and corners flat, I was also surprised to see it comes on Pilot Sport tyres. I have been running around in a Base 35 TDI A4 for the last few weeks and it feels leagues ahead in terms of the drive as you would expect.
Negatives for me are the lack of a speedo in front of you which I still find annoying and the fact I don't find the seats comfy at all and wouldnt enjoy them on a long trip. The general build quality and interior also feels very poor coming out of the A4 which I still have on the drive.
Happy I went for the Polestar 2 as I feel it will get rid of the my negative points of this car whilst keeping the benefits of the electric drife train and the quick acceleration etc.
Had the Model 3 a few weeks now and have a few more comments:
Lights - They are terrible
Auto-High Beam - Its very laggy and I don't seem to be able to have high beam on fixed its a choice of auto-high beam which is crap or keeping the stalk held all the time.
Window Wipers - They don't seem as effective as other cars I have drive recently for some reason. The auto-wiper feature is also calibrated poorly and the fact you dont have a dedicated stalk and have to use the screen is very annoying/distracting.
In terms of the range it seems to do the 230 if you drive normally and are not on the motorway if you thrash it a bit and sit at 85 on the motorway that's more like 180 miles which seems reasonable.
The performance of the standard model is plenty to beat most stuff on the road and it handles a lot better than I expected however the general build quality and the other niggles I have experienced make me glad I only have it short term.
The basics fundamentals of the car are good however and I am sure in the future Tesla will crack it.
Edited by greggy50 on Thursday 19th November 16:01
Glad it’s not just me (and Chris Harris) that think the M3 seats are uncomfortable as I wanted to like the Tesla.
About 18 months ago my company car was returned in exchange for a very good allowance but we are now going back to company cars so I hopefully have a Polestar coming sometime.
About 18 months ago my company car was returned in exchange for a very good allowance but we are now going back to company cars so I hopefully have a Polestar coming sometime.
South tdf said:
Glad it’s not just me (and Chris Harris) that think the M3 seats are uncomfortable as I wanted to like the Tesla.
About 18 months ago my company car was returned in exchange for a very good allowance but we are now going back to company cars so I hopefully have a Polestar coming sometime.
My girlfriend finds the seats very comfy but she loved the seats in her Citroen C1 and has said the seats in my 2020 S60, A4 and 3 Seties I have had this year where not as they hugged you...About 18 months ago my company car was returned in exchange for a very good allowance but we are now going back to company cars so I hopefully have a Polestar coming sometime.
I think she enjoys a deck chair style seat and a bad back!
She has been enjoying the built in karaoke feature today 🤣
greggy50 said:
Collected my temporary Model 3 yesterday.
First positive impressions are that the straight line performance of this base model is plenty for day to day and feels on par with a new 330d or similar so you are quicker than 80% of stuff on the road.
The car handles better than I though it would and corners flat, I was also surprised to see it comes on Pilot Sport tyres. I have been running around in a Base 35 TDI A4 for the last few weeks and it feels leagues ahead in terms of the drive as you would expect.
Negatives for me are the lack of a speedo in front of you which I still find annoying and the fact I don't find the seats comfy at all and wouldnt enjoy them on a long trip. The general build quality and interior also feels very poor coming out of the A4 which I still have on the drive.
Happy I went for the Polestar 2 as I feel it will get rid of the my negative points of this car whilst keeping the benefits of the electric drife train and the quick acceleration etc.
Looks similar to the one I had for a month. I couldn't get over the looks or fit and finish. Great power train though.First positive impressions are that the straight line performance of this base model is plenty for day to day and feels on par with a new 330d or similar so you are quicker than 80% of stuff on the road.
The car handles better than I though it would and corners flat, I was also surprised to see it comes on Pilot Sport tyres. I have been running around in a Base 35 TDI A4 for the last few weeks and it feels leagues ahead in terms of the drive as you would expect.
Negatives for me are the lack of a speedo in front of you which I still find annoying and the fact I don't find the seats comfy at all and wouldnt enjoy them on a long trip. The general build quality and interior also feels very poor coming out of the A4 which I still have on the drive.
Happy I went for the Polestar 2 as I feel it will get rid of the my negative points of this car whilst keeping the benefits of the electric drife train and the quick acceleration etc.
I also went for a polestar 2 however lease company cockups have put an end to that.
greggy50 said:
South tdf said:
Glad it’s not just me (and Chris Harris) that think the M3 seats are uncomfortable as I wanted to like the Tesla.
About 18 months ago my company car was returned in exchange for a very good allowance but we are now going back to company cars so I hopefully have a Polestar coming sometime.
My girlfriend finds the seats very comfy but she loved the seats in her Citroen C1 and has said the seats in my 2020 S60, A4 and 3 Seties I have had this year where not as they hugged you...About 18 months ago my company car was returned in exchange for a very good allowance but we are now going back to company cars so I hopefully have a Polestar coming sometime.
I think she enjoys a deck chair style seat and a bad back!
She has been enjoying the built in karaoke feature today ??
What they really lack is decent lateral support for when you're pressing on.
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