Discussion
aestetix1 said:
squirejo said:
Refinement: quieter than i3.
I'd love to get to the bottom of this. In Bjorn's tests it was very noisy and when I test drove one it was noisy on the motorway. Lots of road noise, almost sounded like one of the back windows was open (I checked, they were not). And this was in summer.Yet other people say it's quieter than many other cars known for being fairly well insulated for sound. It seems like it is for wind noise and engine noise from fossils, but maybe not for road noise. Smooth tarmac is okay but other surfaces get loud.
Or maybe it's a QC issue.
In any case the issue right now is that you can get a 64kWh eNiro 3 for £230/month with £2k down on lease. The Honda e is about £305/month with £2k down (both 5k miles). So while the e is a lovely car it's both expensive and far less practical than the competition.
I really don't see them as competing TBH, how much is a well equipped Mini Electric on those same terms would be more interesting?
aestetix1 said:
I'd love to get to the bottom of this. In Bjorn's tests it was very noisy and when I test drove one it was noisy on the motorway. Lots of road noise, almost sounded like one of the back windows was open (I checked, they were not). And this was in summer.
Yet other people say it's quieter than many other cars known for being fairly well insulated for sound. It seems like it is for wind noise and engine noise from fossils, but maybe not for road noise. Smooth tarmac is okay but other surfaces get loud.
Or maybe it's a QC issue.
In any case the issue right now is that you can get a 64kWh eNiro 3 for £230/month with £2k down on lease. The Honda e is about £305/month with £2k down (both 5k miles). So while the e is a lovely car it's both expensive and far less practical than the competition.
I can only report as I find. Like all cars, it depends on th quality of tarmac but in general it seemed quieter than the i3 in terms of ease of conversation, listening to music, having a phone call etc.Yet other people say it's quieter than many other cars known for being fairly well insulated for sound. It seems like it is for wind noise and engine noise from fossils, but maybe not for road noise. Smooth tarmac is okay but other surfaces get loud.
Or maybe it's a QC issue.
In any case the issue right now is that you can get a 64kWh eNiro 3 for £230/month with £2k down on lease. The Honda e is about £305/month with £2k down (both 5k miles). So while the e is a lovely car it's both expensive and far less practical than the competition.
Re e-niro. Yes, and as per e-208 I mentioned. It's not a problem, but a choice else we'd all drive Skodas and shop at Tesco (or something)
SWoll said:
On purely practical terms i agree. I'd suggest there's quite a number of completely impractical reasons to pay that £75 a month for the Honda though, especially if you don't need the extra space or range the Kia offers?
I really don't see them as competing TBH, how much is a well equipped Mini Electric on those same terms would be more interesting?
This essentially.I really don't see them as competing TBH, how much is a well equipped Mini Electric on those same terms would be more interesting?
It's horses for courses... not every car making decision and following ownership is based on a spreadsheet, otherwise Dacia would be the #1 car maker in the world. For some, yes their decision is simple range vs cost, or space vs cost, and the honda will lose. But for many, the same reason they're not buying a Dacia, is the reason they'll pay more for the Honda e.
aestetix1 said:
In any case the issue right now is that you can get a 64kWh eNiro 3 for £230/month with £2k down on lease. The Honda e is about £305/month with £2k down (both 5k miles). So while the e is a lovely car it's both expensive and far less practical than the competition.
This is true, but also very much dependent on why you're getting an electric car, right? If you're getting a white good/shopping car, of course you want to make it objective as possible, does it meet your needs for a certain price and so on. But I approached ordering an electric car differently, I just wanted the Honda E, it was very much an emotional decision. Likewise the Fiat 500 La Prima, I really wanted that but had no interest in the 'standard' electric 500.
Of course, I am lucky enough to be in the position where I'm able to do that, and probably most won't be, but still. Not all about money v practicality
I really like these cars - they could be slightly flawed, better range elsewhere etc, but I like the quirky design. It would be a second car anyway, so would spend most of it's time on the school/shopping run. I also looked at the e-mini too (yes, I watched the TG episode!) but that seems to be quite a bit more a month - see below.
I've never financed a car before, just bought them outright and kept them for 6 or 7 years. However, leasing or PCP'ing an electric car seems the right way to go as the technology seems to be advancing pretty fast. That means you'd likely want to hand back your car after 2 years anyway and get something with a ton more range, better/different charging options.
Given the above, I could be guilty of making a terrible man maths error, but would appear that all that really matters is deposit + how much you pay a month for the car, and it's less about the RRP
One question - to anyone that has one, do you know if it has an app that allows you to preheat the car etc?
I've never financed a car before, just bought them outright and kept them for 6 or 7 years. However, leasing or PCP'ing an electric car seems the right way to go as the technology seems to be advancing pretty fast. That means you'd likely want to hand back your car after 2 years anyway and get something with a ton more range, better/different charging options.
Given the above, I could be guilty of making a terrible man maths error, but would appear that all that really matters is deposit + how much you pay a month for the car, and it's less about the RRP
One question - to anyone that has one, do you know if it has an app that allows you to preheat the car etc?
phatmanace said:
Given the above, I could be guilty of making a terrible man maths error, but would appear that all that really matters is deposit + how much you pay a month for the car, and it's less about the RRP
RRP is certainly not that important when you do PCP. What matters is the overall cost, i.e. deposit + all the monthly payments. When comparing deals that's the way to do it, look at the total cost.i saw an article on my google feed the other day which suggested that the honda E isn't selling all that strongly and honda are having to go to tesla and buy some of their credits.
apparently they are working hard on installing a larger battery as that is a key concern for customers.
eta link: https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/08/disappointing...
apparently they are working hard on installing a larger battery as that is a key concern for customers.
eta link: https://cleantechnica.com/2020/11/08/disappointing...
Frimley111R said:
i do think it should have been nearer a 150m range, around 100 isn't much at all in people's minds, irrespective of whether they need it.
agreed, even as a highly tolerant early adopter, when i had my first i3, the (winter) 60 mile range was only borderline acceptable on account of the effective 30 mile limit it imposed on your journeys. 100 miles is only just about enough for a busy saturday running the kids around to dance classes/football etc. if they want to get the mass market mobilised, it needs to EASILY do a busy days running around as a second car for local stuff.
They badly misjudged the battery demands of the average second car, IMO
Greg_D said:
apparently they are working hard on installing a larger battery as that is a key concern for customers.
Bad news for current owners and people looking to buy. The value of the first generation models with smaller battery will plummet, which means worse PCP and lease deals. Those already on PCP are likely to end up with nothing to show for it at the end, no trade in value.Would be nice if they offered the new battery as an upgrade but such things tend to be uneconomical.
They really need to slash the price now, or do the usual fudge with PCP numbers.
I agree with regards to the battery, with the price they should have it in line with the Zoe and Leaf, or maybe a little bit less (because the Honda is cool in a way they they aren't). No less than 150 miles should have been the aim and 180-200 would have been ideal.
Ah well. As I said, I'm lucky in that I don't really have to worry about that, but it will be interesting to see if it's enough for my needs. It should be...
Ah well. As I said, I'm lucky in that I don't really have to worry about that, but it will be interesting to see if it's enough for my needs. It should be...
aestetix1 said:
Bad news for current owners and people looking to buy. The value of the first generation models with smaller battery will plummet, which means worse PCP and lease deals. Those already on PCP are likely to end up with nothing to show for it at the end, no trade in value.
Would be nice if they offered the new battery as an upgrade but such things tend to be uneconomical.
They really need to slash the price now, or do the usual fudge with PCP numbers.
couldn't agree more, i've no idea which bright spark (see what i did there...) in marketing said that the most expensive option on the market should also have the poorest range. it's idiotic in the extreme, all they had to do was ask a few consumers and they'd all have said battery battery battery....Would be nice if they offered the new battery as an upgrade but such things tend to be uneconomical.
They really need to slash the price now, or do the usual fudge with PCP numbers.
phatmanace said:
I really like these cars - they could be slightly flawed, better range elsewhere etc, but I like the quirky design. It would be a second car anyway, so would spend most of it's time on the school/shopping run. I also looked at the e-mini too (yes, I watched the TG episode!) but that seems to be quite a bit more a month - see below.
I've never financed a car before, just bought them outright and kept them for 6 or 7 years. However, leasing or PCP'ing an electric car seems the right way to go as the technology seems to be advancing pretty fast. That means you'd likely want to hand back your car after 2 years anyway and get something with a ton more range, better/different charging options.
Given the above, I could be guilty of making a terrible man maths error, but would appear that all that really matters is deposit + how much you pay a month for the car, and it's less about the RRP
One question - to anyone that has one, do you know if it has an app that allows you to preheat the car etc?
Yes - but it’s crap. Actually I can’t tell you whether it’s crap, because I can’t get it to connect with the car. Look at the reviews in the App Store....I've never financed a car before, just bought them outright and kept them for 6 or 7 years. However, leasing or PCP'ing an electric car seems the right way to go as the technology seems to be advancing pretty fast. That means you'd likely want to hand back your car after 2 years anyway and get something with a ton more range, better/different charging options.
Given the above, I could be guilty of making a terrible man maths error, but would appear that all that really matters is deposit + how much you pay a month for the car, and it's less about the RRP
One question - to anyone that has one, do you know if it has an app that allows you to preheat the car etc?
However, you can remote start the HVAC from the key when in range and set the usual timers for a defrosted morning departure etc.
aestetix1 said:
Bad news for current owners and people looking to buy. The value of the first generation models with smaller battery will plummet, which means worse PCP and lease deals. Those already on PCP are likely to end up with nothing to show for it at the end, no trade in value.
Would be nice if they offered the new battery as an upgrade but such things tend to be uneconomical.
They really need to slash the price now, or do the usual fudge with PCP numbers.
TBH any new car is better than the previous one but I can see people saying 'Avoid the first ones as they only did 100miles', a bit like the i3?Would be nice if they offered the new battery as an upgrade but such things tend to be uneconomical.
They really need to slash the price now, or do the usual fudge with PCP numbers.
Greg_D said:
couldn't agree more, i've no idea which bright spark (see what i did there...) in marketing said that the most expensive option on the market should also have the poorest range. it's idiotic in the extreme, all they had to do was ask a few consumers and they'd all have said battery battery battery....
I get the impression that was the battery they had available to them. Mazda use the same one in their first EV. It's a Panasonic product I think.Panasonic where kind of screwed by partnering with Tesla. Tesla batteries are high performance but expensive, where as for a car like this it would make much more sense to have something like what Kia and Hyundai use from LG Chem. Pouch cells, much lower cost and higher density, lower weight etc.
aestetix1 said:
I get the impression that was the battery they had available to them. Mazda use the same one in their first EV. It's a Panasonic product I think.
From my memory when I watched an interview with the lead engineer about moving the show car into production, choosing a small battery was a deliberate decision. Based on the advantages of weight, cost, and size.The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
EddieSteadyGo said:
aestetix1 said:
I get the impression that was the battery they had available to them. Mazda use the same one in their first EV. It's a Panasonic product I think.
From my memory when I watched an interview with the lead engineer about moving the show car into production, choosing a small battery was a deliberate decision. Based on the advantages of The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
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