Discussion
squirejo said:
aestetix1 said:
I'd love to get to the bottom of this. In Bjorn's tests it was very noisy and when I test drove one it was noisy on the motorway. Lots of road noise, almost sounded like one of the back windows was open (I checked, they were not). And this was in summer.
Yet other people say it's quieter than many other cars known for being fairly well insulated for sound. It seems like it is for wind noise and engine noise from fossils, but maybe not for road noise. Smooth tarmac is okay but other surfaces get loud.
Or maybe it's a QC issue.
In any case the issue right now is that you can get a 64kWh eNiro 3 for £230/month with £2k down on lease. The Honda e is about £305/month with £2k down (both 5k miles). So while the e is a lovely car it's both expensive and far less practical than the competition.
I can only report as I find. Like all cars, it depends on th quality of tarmac but in general it seemed quieter than the i3 in terms of ease of conversation, listening to music, having a phone call etc.Yet other people say it's quieter than many other cars known for being fairly well insulated for sound. It seems like it is for wind noise and engine noise from fossils, but maybe not for road noise. Smooth tarmac is okay but other surfaces get loud.
Or maybe it's a QC issue.
In any case the issue right now is that you can get a 64kWh eNiro 3 for £230/month with £2k down on lease. The Honda e is about £305/month with £2k down (both 5k miles). So while the e is a lovely car it's both expensive and far less practical than the competition.
Re e-niro. Yes, and as per e-208 I mentioned. It's not a problem, but a choice else we'd all drive Skodas and shop at Tesco (or something)
a dB meter will just give you how loud something is, but its possible for something to be loud in terms of sound pressure level, yet the quality of the sound can still have it feel softer on the ears.
EddieSteadyGo said:
From my memory when I watched an interview with the lead engineer about moving the show car into production, choosing a small battery was a deliberate decision. Based on the advantages of weight, cost, and size.
The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
They may have been proven right, based on the sales figures.The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
I don't buy the "small and light" excuse either, the Honda e is quite heavy and not very efficient so if they were bothered about those things they would have stripped some weight out of it elsewhere.
aestetix1 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
From my memory when I watched an interview with the lead engineer about moving the show car into production, choosing a small battery was a deliberate decision. Based on the advantages of weight, cost, and size.
The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
They may have been proven right, based on the sales figures.The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
I don't buy the "small and light" excuse either, the Honda e is quite heavy and not very efficient so if they were bothered about those things they would have stripped some weight out of it elsewhere.
EddieSteadyGo said:
aestetix1 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
From my memory when I watched an interview with the lead engineer about moving the show car into production, choosing a small battery was a deliberate decision. Based on the advantages of weight, cost, and size.
The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
They may have been proven right, based on the sales figures.The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
I don't buy the "small and light" excuse either, the Honda e is quite heavy and not very efficient so if they were bothered about those things they would have stripped some weight out of it elsewhere.
Same with EV's, the salesman will ask how many miles to your work/nans house.....and then "yes madam, it will do 50 of them trips before needing a charge".
Price is often king, and battery matters even less when it looks better than other cars.
hyphen said:
Not many buyers enter a dealership asking how many miles a tank of fuel got. And many don't ask about MPG as they know any non performance car will be reasonable.
Same with EV's, the salesman will ask how many miles to your work/nans house.....and then "yes madam, it will do 50 of them trips before needing a charge".
Price is often king, and battery matters even less when it looks better than other cars.
Might be the case with a regular car, but not many people are buying an EV at the moment without asking basic questions about range, charging etc.Same with EV's, the salesman will ask how many miles to your work/nans house.....and then "yes madam, it will do 50 of them trips before needing a charge".
Price is often king, and battery matters even less when it looks better than other cars.
hyphen said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
aestetix1 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
From my memory when I watched an interview with the lead engineer about moving the show car into production, choosing a small battery was a deliberate decision. Based on the advantages of weight, cost, and size.
The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
They may have been proven right, based on the sales figures.The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
I don't buy the "small and light" excuse either, the Honda e is quite heavy and not very efficient so if they were bothered about those things they would have stripped some weight out of it elsewhere.
Same with EV's, the salesman will ask how many miles to your work/nans house.....and then "yes madam, it will do 50 of them trips before needing a charge".
Price is often king, and battery matters even less when it looks better than other cars.
I test drove one expecting to like it and I did, but watching the range quickly count down from 100 miles was too much of a distraction. It's like driving around with only a quarter of a tank of fuel. The Mini E and the smaller battery BMW I3 are the same.
Last week i had to pick my daughter up from a school trip at short notice after work, the trip ended only 30 miles from home but work is 20 miles the other direction. So work to collection to back home was 100 miles. This was an unexceptional trip and In a 42kWh BMW I3 this was easy with plenty of range left but in the Honda E I would have to have diverted to a charger somewhere on the way back.
Last week i had to pick my daughter up from a school trip at short notice after work, the trip ended only 30 miles from home but work is 20 miles the other direction. So work to collection to back home was 100 miles. This was an unexceptional trip and In a 42kWh BMW I3 this was easy with plenty of range left but in the Honda E I would have to have diverted to a charger somewhere on the way back.
GT6k said:
I test drove one expecting to like it and I did, but watching the range quickly count down from 100 miles was too much of a distraction. It's like driving around with only a quarter of a tank of fuel. The Mini E and the smaller battery BMW I3 are the same.
Last week i had to pick my daughter up from a school trip at short notice after work, the trip ended only 30 miles from home but work is 20 miles the other direction. So work to collection to back home was 100 miles. This was an unexceptional trip and In a 42kWh BMW I3 this was easy with plenty of range left but in the Honda E I would have to have diverted to a charger somewhere on the way back.
This is where I don't get the Honda E's ethos, they say it'll be bought for short urban trips but tbh it sounds more like those 'idea world' trips should be done on either a cycle or foot. I just don't buy the hokum from Honda and it's low range simply is a result of them getting this part of the car wrong, you can dress it up how you want but for most people (myself included) it is totally off-putting. I also don't think it needs LOADS more range but a real world range of 140-160 miles it would be much easier to bend the man maths to make it work.Last week i had to pick my daughter up from a school trip at short notice after work, the trip ended only 30 miles from home but work is 20 miles the other direction. So work to collection to back home was 100 miles. This was an unexceptional trip and In a 42kWh BMW I3 this was easy with plenty of range left but in the Honda E I would have to have diverted to a charger somewhere on the way back.
I am hopeful for a bigger range model as I really want one lol.
GT6k said:
I test drove one expecting to like it and I did, but watching the range quickly count down from 100 miles was too much of a distraction. It's like driving around with only a quarter of a tank of fuel. The Mini E and the smaller battery BMW I3 are the same.
Last week i had to pick my daughter up from a school trip at short notice after work, the trip ended only 30 miles from home but work is 20 miles the other direction. So work to collection to back home was 100 miles. This was an unexceptional trip and In a 42kWh BMW I3 this was easy with plenty of range left but in the Honda E I would have to have diverted to a charger somewhere on the way back.
Isn't it meant to be primarily a city car? If you were London based/inside M25, with space to charge at home 100 would suit most users.I suspect 100miles is exceptional for most, regardless of location, for child ferrying and commuting.Last week i had to pick my daughter up from a school trip at short notice after work, the trip ended only 30 miles from home but work is 20 miles the other direction. So work to collection to back home was 100 miles. This was an unexceptional trip and In a 42kWh BMW I3 this was easy with plenty of range left but in the Honda E I would have to have diverted to a charger somewhere on the way back.
928 said:
Isn't it meant to be primarily a city car? If you were London based/inside M25, with space to charge at home 100 would suit most users.I suspect 100miles is exceptional for most, regardless of location, for child ferrying and commuting.
I mentioned a couple of pages back that we have a Smart EQ with a 60 mile range and live in a village in the country. Both kids at different schools in different villages and my wife has a 30mile or so commute to work and back. I also use it for the mundane trips to training/shops etcThe car works perfectly fine getting her to and from work and dropping kids off at friends/activities. I work from home with the fun ICE which is used longer trips/more seats are needed.
Sure 100 or 150 miles would be nice, but it's really not necessary. For us at least.
928 said:
Isn't it meant to be primarily a city car? If you were London based/inside M25, with space to charge at home 100 would suit most users.I suspect 100miles is exceptional for most, regardless of location, for child ferrying and commuting.
But if you do live in the city (rather than just inside the M25) then it is less likely you have off street parking so can't guarantee charging every night and that 25 mile each way journey needs a charge every two days. Whilst there are going to be many people who's use case it fits, it limits the number of people who are going to buy it. You can have an MG5 for much less money which gets all the kids in and the dogs in the back with double the range. 
k in an otherwise great car. I think far too many people are hooked on range. Sometimes and for some people it is the be all and end all. But for many others it's not.
Take me for example, even pre-covid, the most I'd do was 40 miles. On the odd occasion, a few times a year I'd go further (160+ miles). So as we're already a 3 car household, why not do the every day in something that only needs to do 40 miles, and leave the rare trips to one of the others?
It's the same reason I don't own a transit. Yes, I do need every few years to shift furniture etc, but I just hire one when I need to do that. That's extreme, but it's the same thinking.
Here's my step by step rough thinking:
1) Can I charge at home/work? If yes, fine.
2) Do I drive more than X miles range more than once every 3 months?
3) Do I have another car which can go much further?
I'm fine on 1, 2 and 3 and so a Honda E, Mini E or any of the lower range small EVs work fine for me. They won't for everyone, but they're not trying to sell to everyone.
Honda's problem is most people even if they could tick all the boxes above, seem to focus too much on range, and deciding they need a car that can drive Lands End to John-o-groats return trip without stops, just in case even though they'll never need to do it. If the public are going to be irrational the manufacturers (and Honda) are going to struggle.
Take me for example, even pre-covid, the most I'd do was 40 miles. On the odd occasion, a few times a year I'd go further (160+ miles). So as we're already a 3 car household, why not do the every day in something that only needs to do 40 miles, and leave the rare trips to one of the others?
It's the same reason I don't own a transit. Yes, I do need every few years to shift furniture etc, but I just hire one when I need to do that. That's extreme, but it's the same thinking.
Here's my step by step rough thinking:
1) Can I charge at home/work? If yes, fine.
2) Do I drive more than X miles range more than once every 3 months?
3) Do I have another car which can go much further?
I'm fine on 1, 2 and 3 and so a Honda E, Mini E or any of the lower range small EVs work fine for me. They won't for everyone, but they're not trying to sell to everyone.
Honda's problem is most people even if they could tick all the boxes above, seem to focus too much on range, and deciding they need a car that can drive Lands End to John-o-groats return trip without stops, just in case even though they'll never need to do it. If the public are going to be irrational the manufacturers (and Honda) are going to struggle.
phil4 said:
I think far too many people are hooked on range. Sometimes and for some people it is the be all and end all. But for many others it's not.
Take me for example, even pre-covid, the most I'd do was 40 miles. On the odd occasion, a few times a year I'd go further (160+ miles). So as we're already a 3 car household, why not do the every day in something that only needs to do 40 miles, and leave the rare trips to one of the others?
It's the same reason I don't own a transit. Yes, I do need every few years to shift furniture etc, but I just hire one when I need to do that. That's extreme, but it's the same thinking.
Here's my step by step rough thinking:
1) Can I charge at home/work? If yes, fine.
2) Do I drive more than X miles range more than once every 3 months?
3) Do I have another car which can go much further?
I'm fine on 1, 2 and 3 and so a Honda E, Mini E or any of the lower range small EVs work fine for me. They won't for everyone, but they're not trying to sell to everyone.
Honda's problem is most people even if they could tick all the boxes above, seem to focus too much on range, and deciding they need a car that can drive Lands End to John-o-groats return trip without stops, just in case even though they'll never need to do it. If the public are going to be irrational the manufacturers (and Honda) are going to struggle.
It that simply isn’t what’s being suggested. Take me for example, even pre-covid, the most I'd do was 40 miles. On the odd occasion, a few times a year I'd go further (160+ miles). So as we're already a 3 car household, why not do the every day in something that only needs to do 40 miles, and leave the rare trips to one of the others?
It's the same reason I don't own a transit. Yes, I do need every few years to shift furniture etc, but I just hire one when I need to do that. That's extreme, but it's the same thinking.
Here's my step by step rough thinking:
1) Can I charge at home/work? If yes, fine.
2) Do I drive more than X miles range more than once every 3 months?
3) Do I have another car which can go much further?
I'm fine on 1, 2 and 3 and so a Honda E, Mini E or any of the lower range small EVs work fine for me. They won't for everyone, but they're not trying to sell to everyone.
Honda's problem is most people even if they could tick all the boxes above, seem to focus too much on range, and deciding they need a car that can drive Lands End to John-o-groats return trip without stops, just in case even though they'll never need to do it. If the public are going to be irrational the manufacturers (and Honda) are going to struggle.
Take a Yaris for example. A short range city car, but if one needs to do a bit more bobbing around than normal on a given weekend, it’s up for the challenge... if you CAN’T perform something mildly in addition to the usual, it just isn’t practical. No one is on about London to Edinburgh daily.....
Greg_D said:
It that simply isn’t what’s being suggested.
Take a Yaris for example. A short range city car, but if one needs to do a bit more bobbing around than normal on a given weekend, it’s up for the challenge... if you CAN’T perform something mildly in addition to the usual, it just isn’t practical. No one is on about London to Edinburgh daily.....
You know they can be recharged right? Just like I did to drive it 150 miles home. They Van actually drive further than 100 miles in a weekend or even a trip. Fine by me, fewer people at chargers. Take a Yaris for example. A short range city car, but if one needs to do a bit more bobbing around than normal on a given weekend, it’s up for the challenge... if you CAN’T perform something mildly in addition to the usual, it just isn’t practical. No one is on about London to Edinburgh daily.....
phil4 said:
I think far too many people are hooked on range. Sometimes and for some people it is the be all and end all. But for many others it's not.
Take me for example, even pre-covid, the most I'd do was 40 miles. On the odd occasion, a few times a year I'd go further (160+ miles). So as we're already a 3 car household, why not do the every day in something that only needs to do 40 miles, and leave the rare trips to one of the others?
It's the same reason I don't own a transit. Yes, I do need every few years to shift furniture etc, but I just hire one when I need to do that. That's extreme, but it's the same thinking.
Here's my step by step rough thinking:
1) Can I charge at home/work? If yes, fine.
2) Do I drive more than X miles range more than once every 3 months?
3) Do I have another car which can go much further?
I'm fine on 1, 2 and 3 and so a Honda E, Mini E or any of the lower range small EVs work fine for me. They won't for everyone, but they're not trying to sell to everyone.
Honda's problem is most people even if they could tick all the boxes above, seem to focus too much on range, and deciding they need a car that can drive Lands End to John-o-groats return trip without stops, just in case even though they'll never need to do it. If the public are going to be irrational the manufacturers (and Honda) are going to struggle.
I think if the charge locations were all reliable similar to Tesla superchargers, I think people would have less of a problem with range, the problem though is that they are terrible.Take me for example, even pre-covid, the most I'd do was 40 miles. On the odd occasion, a few times a year I'd go further (160+ miles). So as we're already a 3 car household, why not do the every day in something that only needs to do 40 miles, and leave the rare trips to one of the others?
It's the same reason I don't own a transit. Yes, I do need every few years to shift furniture etc, but I just hire one when I need to do that. That's extreme, but it's the same thinking.
Here's my step by step rough thinking:
1) Can I charge at home/work? If yes, fine.
2) Do I drive more than X miles range more than once every 3 months?
3) Do I have another car which can go much further?
I'm fine on 1, 2 and 3 and so a Honda E, Mini E or any of the lower range small EVs work fine for me. They won't for everyone, but they're not trying to sell to everyone.
Honda's problem is most people even if they could tick all the boxes above, seem to focus too much on range, and deciding they need a car that can drive Lands End to John-o-groats return trip without stops, just in case even though they'll never need to do it. If the public are going to be irrational the manufacturers (and Honda) are going to struggle.
I tried them with my Tesla on the M25 and both of them I tried failed to work properly, when i parked at Waitrose and tried to use the 7KW charger the charger wouldn't release my cable so was on the phone for half an hour.
For a car with long range you can just charge your car at home, but with a shorter range you have to charge when you are travelling.
- Pete
There may be another factor at play in the range anxiety issue.
People are suddenly being confronted with a new parameter that they have not had to wrestle with before. How many drivers are actually aware of things like how far they drive in, say, a week, the range of their car, distances of regular journeys, etc.?
It's my impression that many folk just drive their cars as needed, putting fuel in when it starts to run low (or not, if it's Dad's car!). If asked about journeys they reply in terms of time rather than miles: "it takes me 2 hours to get to Mum's" sort of thing.
The ease and ubiquity of refuelling ICEs has made it something that many folk do without thinking. So when they are faced with the need to choose a car with adequate range for their needs, they are all at sea. Naturally that makes them cautious and conservative.
I suspect this may change quite quickly once enough people hear from friends and colleagues about the realities of running an EV.
People are suddenly being confronted with a new parameter that they have not had to wrestle with before. How many drivers are actually aware of things like how far they drive in, say, a week, the range of their car, distances of regular journeys, etc.?
It's my impression that many folk just drive their cars as needed, putting fuel in when it starts to run low (or not, if it's Dad's car!). If asked about journeys they reply in terms of time rather than miles: "it takes me 2 hours to get to Mum's" sort of thing.
The ease and ubiquity of refuelling ICEs has made it something that many folk do without thinking. So when they are faced with the need to choose a car with adequate range for their needs, they are all at sea. Naturally that makes them cautious and conservative.
I suspect this may change quite quickly once enough people hear from friends and colleagues about the realities of running an EV.
aestetix1 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
From my memory when I watched an interview with the lead engineer about moving the show car into production, choosing a small battery was a deliberate decision. Based on the advantages of weight, cost, and size.
The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
They may have been proven right, based on the sales figures.The honda execs were sceptical (the lead engineer said) that a car with a small battery would be saleable, but they were eventually convinced to go with it.
I don't buy the "small and light" excuse either, the Honda e is quite heavy and not very efficient so if they were bothered about those things they would have stripped some weight out of it elsewhere.
The fact it looks so damn good generates attention and interest.
It's compact size is a plus for many buyers.
I reckon they'll let it generate some revenue, gain a bit of market share, get some exposure and then set about enhancing the next model, with weight saving and so on, to keep ahead.
Mikehig said:
There may be another factor at play in the range anxiety issue.
People are suddenly being confronted with a new parameter that they have not had to wrestle with before. How many drivers are actually aware of things like how far they drive in, say, a week, the range of their car, distances of regular journeys, etc.?
It's my impression that many folk just drive their cars as needed, putting fuel in when it starts to run low (or not, if it's Dad's car!). If asked about journeys they reply in terms of time rather than miles: "it takes me 2 hours to get to Mum's" sort of thing.
The ease and ubiquity of refuelling ICEs has made it something that many folk do without thinking. So when they are faced with the need to choose a car with adequate range for their needs, they are all at sea. Naturally that makes them cautious and conservative.
I suspect this may change quite quickly once enough people hear from friends and colleagues about the realities of running an EV.
Mike, you only have to read the posts above yours and the thread from Meltham Terrier to see you're mistaken.People are suddenly being confronted with a new parameter that they have not had to wrestle with before. How many drivers are actually aware of things like how far they drive in, say, a week, the range of their car, distances of regular journeys, etc.?
It's my impression that many folk just drive their cars as needed, putting fuel in when it starts to run low (or not, if it's Dad's car!). If asked about journeys they reply in terms of time rather than miles: "it takes me 2 hours to get to Mum's" sort of thing.
The ease and ubiquity of refuelling ICEs has made it something that many folk do without thinking. So when they are faced with the need to choose a car with adequate range for their needs, they are all at sea. Naturally that makes them cautious and conservative.
I suspect this may change quite quickly once enough people hear from friends and colleagues about the realities of running an EV.
The world hasn't changed. We still have the same needs we had before. BEV can't do what we need it to do yet.
phil4 said:
I think far too many people are hooked on range.
Honda's problem is most people even if they could tick all the boxes above, seem to focus too much on range, and deciding they need a car that can drive Lands End to John-o-groats return trip without stops, just in case even though they'll never need to do it. If the public are going to be irrational the manufacturers (and Honda) are going to struggle.
You see there's a big world out there with people who travel distances somewhere between your hermit miles and the imaginary fantasy scenario you've just made up. These people do exist!Honda's problem is most people even if they could tick all the boxes above, seem to focus too much on range, and deciding they need a car that can drive Lands End to John-o-groats return trip without stops, just in case even though they'll never need to do it. If the public are going to be irrational the manufacturers (and Honda) are going to struggle.
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