Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Exactly. I might be getting an EV for a commute and it’s 90 miles there and back, so not really enough bunce there for me. The i8 wouldn’t have any issues though and they’ve tanked so only slightly more money than the Honda/i3.If it looked a bit more like the concept it would help justify what is in effect an expensive city car. A slightly girly one at that.
Do a Type-R version (a type-ER perhaps) with a 200 mile range and I’ll see you in the showroom.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Totally agree! Its about convenience. We have an i3 Rex with a realistic 90 mile range for most of the year (jumping to 120 miles now its cooled off and I dont need aircon!). Its absolutely adequate for what we need and for trolling around town and doing daily run-about stuff its perfect! But, the assumption that you keep it at 100% charge all of the time is not right. Most manufacturers say dont do this and most suggest charging to around 80%. So if its 120 miles range, thats suddenly 100 miles AT BEST and assuming the driving conditions and weather is perfect. Say its winter and cold, knock another 10 miles off and suddenly you are below 100. Then, if you havent made sure its at 100%, you are lower again!And thats on the assumption you can charge at home to top off and that there is plenty of available public charging where you need to go! If there isnt, you have an effective real-world range of 45 miles each way. But you have to knock off some of that to make sure you dont run out - so 35-40 miles each way trip to give you some a comfort zone to work with. If thats your radius of operation, thats quite restrictive! Range DOES matter and the convenience of not having to fill up is great. But when you are having to charge constantly, its an issue and a time consuming one if you cant get decent L2 charging. So yeah, Honda dropped the ball on that.
Not everyone needs to drive across country on a daily basis, thats fine. A lot of people just do a couple of trips per day - school, shops, school again and maybe a quick trip in the evening. For a lot of people, thats 20 miles or so. In reality thats a charge every 3 days and if you have a garage or parking space with power, thats easy. Great, fits for your life. Thats exactly what we use our i3 for! Perfect. But if we want to go to the city, go to the mall or something else thats a once a month exercise, I have to use the Rex to get home (its 50 miles to the big mall near me). I know I am not the average buyer, but it gives an illustration. And my wife can eat through 100 miles charge surprisingly quickly given the supermarket is 5 miles away, the pharmacy and small mall is 10 miles and my daughter is currently homeschooling!
off_again said:
....
But, the assumption that you keep it at 100% charge all of the time is not right. Most manufacturers say dont do this and most suggest charging to around 80%. So if its 120 miles range, thats suddenly 100 miles AT BEST and assuming the driving conditions and weather is perfect....
This is quite an important point people should know about electric cars.But, the assumption that you keep it at 100% charge all of the time is not right. Most manufacturers say dont do this and most suggest charging to around 80%. So if its 120 miles range, thats suddenly 100 miles AT BEST and assuming the driving conditions and weather is perfect....
We own a leaf as a runabout car. It was originally leased and we fully intended to hand it back at the end of the 2 year term. It is the 30 kwh version so 100'ish miles is what is should be able to do.
Then we decided to buy the car at the end of the term as we thought some newer better cars would be out soon. And then we bought a Leakspy to check battery health....
It is down to 81% after just 15,000 miles and 3.5 years.
We have tried the rejuvenation methods like running it to empty and giving it rapid charges. And not slow charging until close to empty. Has made nearly no difference. And we have also got the latest software.
So basically topping up each night has not been good for the battery health.
EddieSteadyGo said:
This is quite an important point people should know about electric cars.
We own a leaf as a runabout car. It was originally leased and we fully intended to hand it back at the end of the 2 year term. It is the 30 kwh version so 100'ish miles is what is should be able to do.
Then we decided to buy the car at the end of the term as we thought some newer better cars would be out soon. And then we bought a Leakspy to check battery health....
It is down to 81% after just 15,000 miles and 3.5 years.
We have tried the rejuvenation methods like running it to empty and giving it rapid charges. And not slow charging until close to empty. Has made nearly no difference. And we have also got the latest software.
So basically topping up each night has not been good for the battery health.
Have you had the software update? There was a bug where the battery health decreased too fast but the software update fixed it. It was an issue with the calculation, not with the battery actually being worn out.We own a leaf as a runabout car. It was originally leased and we fully intended to hand it back at the end of the 2 year term. It is the 30 kwh version so 100'ish miles is what is should be able to do.
Then we decided to buy the car at the end of the term as we thought some newer better cars would be out soon. And then we bought a Leakspy to check battery health....
It is down to 81% after just 15,000 miles and 3.5 years.
We have tried the rejuvenation methods like running it to empty and giving it rapid charges. And not slow charging until close to empty. Has made nearly no difference. And we have also got the latest software.
So basically topping up each night has not been good for the battery health.
Also you should contact Nissan anyway as that is getting close to the warranty limit on the battery.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
VK; that wasn't really the point I was trying to make. Sure there are many folk who know that an EV would not be right for their requirements for all sorts of reasons. I was talking about those (who I suspect are the majority) for whom the whole idea of range has never crossed their radar. They fill their car once a fortnight or whatever and think no more of it.Then something gives them the idea of switching to an EV, they run into the range question and don't have a clue. The media carries a lot of stories about the risk of getting stranded in an EV and other perceived problems. That combined with uncertainty of their real mileage requirements puts folk off or, at best, makes them very conservative.
The reality is that an EV would be perfectly adequate many motorists, maybe even the majority, but a lot of them can't see it because of their own uncertainties and the fear/risk of getting it wrong.
It's a bit like mobile phones. We used to grumble at anything less than the days/weeks of battery of the classic Nokia. Now we are used to just plugging the damn thing in whenever we are at home. Those needing a refill "on the road" can get booster packs or just find a pub, cafe, whatever with a suitable charger.
Imho EVs will go the same way once enough folk have them and the rest see that it's no big deal once you get used to a slightly different way of working.
As for the Honda e, I've seen quite a few on the road around here (Surrey) and they do look "right". It's a very clever bit of design. I guess we will be able to tell whether the short range is a real problem if lots start to appear on the second-hand market in the near future.
aestetix1 said:
Have you had the software update? There was a bug where the battery health decreased too fast but the software update fixed it. It was an issue with the calculation, not with the battery actually being worn out.
Also you should contact Nissan anyway as that is getting close to the warranty limit on the battery.
I have had the software update (initially I thought that might be the issue too). And I also checked the warranty - it is close, but not that close to being a warranty claim.Also you should contact Nissan anyway as that is getting close to the warranty limit on the battery.
The problem is plugging in the car each evening. So I just wanted to highlight this as, if you own rather than lease the car, this is an important point.
Mike, range has never been an issue or a consideration with ICE. It never needed to be because, no matter how big the tank, you can just wang a load more fuel in in minutes without worry and give the car whatever range you happen to need at any time.
It's a new consideration with BEV because it's a limiting factor specific to BEV.
It's a new consideration with BEV because it's a limiting factor specific to BEV.
My friend made a great analogy the other day.
He mentioned the same thing happened when everybody started using full display smartphones and their idiotic one-day battery life.
Everyone now is used to the fact that their phone probably won't last the weekend. We got chargers everywhere though and battery banks for emergencies.
Battery banks won't work for EV's, but quickchargers do.
We've lived with a Renault Twizy for a week and just adopted the "always be charging" mentality, works perfectly fine.
If you can manage your day to day, the other movements will work out imho.
The one thing limiting the Honda to regular travel is the charge speed though, 50kWh seems low in this day and age. I think for people used to EV's, that will be the killer.
He mentioned the same thing happened when everybody started using full display smartphones and their idiotic one-day battery life.
Everyone now is used to the fact that their phone probably won't last the weekend. We got chargers everywhere though and battery banks for emergencies.
Battery banks won't work for EV's, but quickchargers do.
We've lived with a Renault Twizy for a week and just adopted the "always be charging" mentality, works perfectly fine.
If you can manage your day to day, the other movements will work out imho.
The one thing limiting the Honda to regular travel is the charge speed though, 50kWh seems low in this day and age. I think for people used to EV's, that will be the killer.
ZesPak said:
My friend made a great analogy the other day.
He mentioned the same thing happened when everybody started using full display smartphones and their idiotic one-day battery life.
Everyone now is used to the fact that their phone probably won't last the weekend. We got chargers everywhere though and battery banks for emergencies.
Battery banks won't work for EV's, but quickchargers do.
We've lived with a Renault Twizy for a week and just adopted the "always be charging" mentality, works perfectly fine.
If you can manage your day to day, the other movements will work out imho.
The one thing limiting the Honda to regular travel is the charge speed though, 50kWh seems low in this day and age. I think for people used to EV's, that will be the killer.
Totally different usage cycle though, if the majority of people only turned their phones on for short periods every day to use the when required and the rest of the time left them turned off the battery would last considerably longer?He mentioned the same thing happened when everybody started using full display smartphones and their idiotic one-day battery life.
Everyone now is used to the fact that their phone probably won't last the weekend. We got chargers everywhere though and battery banks for emergencies.
Battery banks won't work for EV's, but quickchargers do.
We've lived with a Renault Twizy for a week and just adopted the "always be charging" mentality, works perfectly fine.
If you can manage your day to day, the other movements will work out imho.
The one thing limiting the Honda to regular travel is the charge speed though, 50kWh seems low in this day and age. I think for people used to EV's, that will be the killer.
Also, I thought the E could rapid charge at 100kW?
ZesPak said:
The official website stated the same charging time at 50kWh than at 150kWh,so I took that as 50kWh being the limit?
Every reference I can find on google suggest 100kW which is better than the Mini Electric, which I would consider it's nearest competitor?https://www.greencharging.co.uk/an-exclusive-honda...
I saw one yesterday for the first time out on the road.
They look very cool I think more of a head turner than some of honda’s other offerings.
May or may not have had a little play and they seem to be rapid too.
The main thing for me was seeing it and knowing what it was it made me smile as they look just a fun cool looking car. Even in black.
The price is I think the only issue but that’s the same for most ev’s but would hope with time this will change.
The range discussion most folk will adopt the ev any ev as most do less than the fully charged range a day commuting to work and doing the daily things folk do.
The only person I can think of that I know that does more than 100 miles a day is me and that’s at work in my work van.
Overall my impression of the Honda E was good and for some reason it just cheered me up.
They look very cool I think more of a head turner than some of honda’s other offerings.
May or may not have had a little play and they seem to be rapid too.
The main thing for me was seeing it and knowing what it was it made me smile as they look just a fun cool looking car. Even in black.
The price is I think the only issue but that’s the same for most ev’s but would hope with time this will change.
The range discussion most folk will adopt the ev any ev as most do less than the fully charged range a day commuting to work and doing the daily things folk do.
The only person I can think of that I know that does more than 100 miles a day is me and that’s at work in my work van.
Overall my impression of the Honda E was good and for some reason it just cheered me up.
SWoll said:
Every reference I can find on google suggest 100kW which is better than the Mini Electric, which I would consider it's nearest competitor?
https://www.greencharging.co.uk/an-exclusive-honda...
Bjorn to the rescue: (looks piss poor compared to the e208 for range and charge curve)https://www.greencharging.co.uk/an-exclusive-honda...
Thanks Swoll, I thought I had the official site but it was pod-point I was looking at:
https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/honda/2020/h...
for some reason they obviously state 50kW as the limit... odd.
100 sounds a lot better tbh.
https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/honda/2020/h...
for some reason they obviously state 50kW as the limit... odd.
100 sounds a lot better tbh.
I had a drive in one today. RWD in such a small car is a novelty and I thought it handled pretty well. Doesn’t feel 1500KG.
Interior is a nice place to be but I noticed the screens weren’t as sharp as I was expecting. Like they were low resolution magnified.
Spoke to an owner and he said driving it as hard as he could, trying to empty the battery, going every where in sport mode, range was 80 miles. Doing the opposite, he said 110 was achievable.
I’m quite tempted. I think battery tech will evolve very quickly over the next few years so might lease but I’ve also seen a few ex demo cars for sub £5K below list so it could be smarter to buy.
Interior is a nice place to be but I noticed the screens weren’t as sharp as I was expecting. Like they were low resolution magnified.
Spoke to an owner and he said driving it as hard as he could, trying to empty the battery, going every where in sport mode, range was 80 miles. Doing the opposite, he said 110 was achievable.
I’m quite tempted. I think battery tech will evolve very quickly over the next few years so might lease but I’ve also seen a few ex demo cars for sub £5K below list so it could be smarter to buy.
ZesPak said:
Thanks Swoll, I thought I had the official site but it was pod-point I was looking at:
https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/honda/2020/h...
for some reason they obviously state 50kW as the limit... odd.
100 sounds a lot better tbh.
https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/honda/2020/h...
for some reason they obviously state 50kW as the limit... odd.
100 sounds a lot better tbh.
Having looked further I now think you might be right at 50kW. Clear as mud..
Edited by SWoll on Sunday 15th November 17:02
Autocar have just done a video comparing the Honda to the Mini:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/honda-e-vs-min...
It's a very average review: rambling and overlong for what it says. The tester is enthusiastic about both cars but also highlights the range issue. On a cold morning after a full overnight charge the cars were showing only 65 - 70 miles' range.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/honda-e-vs-min...
It's a very average review: rambling and overlong for what it says. The tester is enthusiastic about both cars but also highlights the range issue. On a cold morning after a full overnight charge the cars were showing only 65 - 70 miles' range.
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