Which home charging point?

[James6112]

A fair gamble
Outlay versus savings

[C70R]

Questions for the masses.

I'm having a Zappi charger installed to charge a Tesla, and I want to know what's required to make it play nicely with my existing solar setup.

I have a Solax controller and batteries, and what I'm reading is confusing me a little. A couple of questions, if I may?

1. Will the Zappi unit 'integrate' with my Solax controller out of the box? I want to be able to control priority between battery charging, immersion heating and EV power on my Octopus Go overnight rate.

2. I know the Zappi unit needs WiFi - does it matter if it's on the same network as the Solax, or does it just need internet access?

3. Should I just ignore all of this and use the Tesla to override charge control?

[gmaz]

C70R said:

Questions for the masses.

I'm having a Zappi charger installed to charge a Tesla, and I want to know what's required to make it play nicely with my existing solar setup.

I have a Solax controller and batteries, and what I'm reading is confusing me a little. A couple of questions, if I may?

1. Will the Zappi unit 'integrate' with my Solax controller out of the box? I want to be able to control priority between battery charging, immersion heating and EV power on my Octopus Go overnight rate.

2. I know the Zappi unit needs WiFi - does it matter if it's on the same network as the Solax, or does it just need internet access?

3. Should I just ignore all of this and use the Tesla to override charge control?

1. Depends if your inverter can differentiate between battery and grid import. My 1st gen GivEnergy system does not do this, so I use the "Export Margin=100w" option on the Zappi so it only charges the car if the home battery is full and therefore am exporting > 100w. Note - as Octopus pay 15p/kWh for export, its actually cheaper to export all your solar and just use the overnight 7.5p rate to charge the home battery to 100% and your car to whatever you need.

2. Just wifi access, it does not talk directly to the inverter, the only connection is the current transformer.

3. With Octopus Intelligent Go, I just let Octopus set the Tesla charge schedule

[C70R]

gmaz said:

C70R said:

Questions for the masses.

I'm having a Zappi charger installed to charge a Tesla, and I want to know what's required to make it play nicely with my existing solar setup.

I have a Solax controller and batteries, and what I'm reading is confusing me a little. A couple of questions, if I may?

1. Will the Zappi unit 'integrate' with my Solax controller out of the box? I want to be able to control priority between battery charging, immersion heating and EV power on my Octopus Go overnight rate.

2. I know the Zappi unit needs WiFi - does it matter if it's on the same network as the Solax, or does it just need internet access?

3. Should I just ignore all of this and use the Tesla to override charge control?

1. Depends if your inverter can differentiate between battery and grid import. My 1st gen GivEnergy system does not do this, so I use the "Export Margin=100w" option on the Zappi so it only charges the car if the home battery is full and therefore am exporting > 100w. Note - as Octopus pay 15p/kWh for export, its actually cheaper to export all your solar and just use the overnight 7.5p rate to charge the home battery to 100% and your car to whatever you need.

2. Just wifi access, it does not talk directly to the inverter, the only connection is the current transformer.

3. With Octopus Intelligent Go, I just let Octopus set the Tesla charge schedule

Thanks for the quick and clear replies.

My inverter/controller is able to differentiate between grid and battery, which is good news. I set it to charge the battery to 100% as soon as the overnight rate kicks in, and I'd ideally like it to then flip over to charge the car from the remaining time. It sounds like I should be able to do this, if I'm understanding you correctly.

I only have the 'cooking' Go tariff at the moment. Reading the Octopus website it suggests that only Ohme chargers are compatible with Intelligent - I assume that's just marketing bumph, and other chargers are compatible? Looks like I need a better smart meter to transition to Intelligent, so I've just booked in for that.

[gmaz]

C70R said:

My inverter/controller is able to differentiate between grid and battery, which is good news. I set it to charge the battery to 100% as soon as the overnight rate kicks in, and I'd ideally like it to then flip over to charge the car from the remaining time. It sounds like I should be able to do this, if I'm understanding you correctly.

You can charge both the car and home battery at the same time using the overnight rate. It is only during daytime solar generation that you prioritise the home battery to reach 100%, and then switch to charging the car.

[C70R]

gmaz said:

C70R said:

My inverter/controller is able to differentiate between grid and battery, which is good news. I set it to charge the battery to 100% as soon as the overnight rate kicks in, and I'd ideally like it to then flip over to charge the car from the remaining time. It sounds like I should be able to do this, if I'm understanding you correctly.

You can charge both the car and home battery at the same time using the overnight rate. It is only during daytime solar generation that you prioritise the home battery to reach 100%, and then switch to charging the car.

Sounds like that's job done to me. Thank you.

Zappi charger and Intelligent Go seem like the way forward. A shame I can't get a 22kW charger at home, but I'm sure the 7kW will do everything I need.

[ldnajt]

Hopefully not questions that have been asked many times before (I certainly couldn’t find much).

I need a charger that can work today with standard single phase and in a few months time with 3p and solar / batteries. It would ideally be freestanding and tethered for ease of use.

• We have three phase coming but likely later this year once SSEN sort themselves out.
• I want to install a car charger now as our first EV has arrived earlier than expected.
• We are also installing a decent solar array and batteries

I am looking at Simpson & Partners freestanding 22kw charger (keen to avoid plastic / screens on our drive), but am worried that it won’t play nicely with the solar or batteries. Is there anything i should be asking my solar / battery installers, or any other charger that I’m missing that might work better? It’s also not tethered so I’m still looking but haven’t seen anything else that looks nice!

I see the Zappi and will be installing a zappi eddi for the hot water tank so perhaps it’s a case of getting over the design and getting that instead.

Basically, will a modern charger speak to modern solar / batteries so that they are smart enough between them to charge the battery and car from solar, then from off peak electricity prices, diverting demand / battery draw so that we don’t call on the grid unless it’s totally essential?

Second question, can you install a 22kw 3 phase charger using single phase wiring and then wire it for full fat power later?

Any help gratefully received!

[39sl]

ldnajt said:

Hopefully not questions that have been asked many times before (I certainly couldn’t find much).

I need a charger that can work today with standard single phase and in a few months time with 3p and solar / batteries. It would ideally be freestanding and tethered for ease of use.

• We have three phase coming but likely later this year once SSEN sort themselves out.
• I want to install a car charger now as our first EV has arrived earlier than expected.
• We are also installing a decent solar array and batteries

I am looking at Simpson & Partners freestanding 22kw charger (keen to avoid plastic / screens on our drive), but am worried that it won’t play nicely with the solar or batteries. Is there anything i should be asking my solar / battery installers, or any other charger that I’m missing that might work better? It’s also not tethered so I’m still looking but haven’t seen anything else that looks nice!

I see the Zappi and will be installing a zappi eddi for the hot water tank so perhaps it’s a case of getting over the design and getting that instead.

Basically, will a modern charger speak to modern solar / batteries so that they are smart enough between them to charge the battery and car from solar, then from off peak electricity prices, diverting demand / battery draw so that we don’t call on the grid unless it’s totally essential?

Second question, can you install a 22kw 3 phase charger using single phase wiring and then wire it for full fat power later?

Any help gratefully received!

I can’t comment on your 1st question, but on the 2nd question, yes you can use the S&P 22KW with a single phase and update later.

[bennno]

ldnajt said:

Hopefully not questions that have been asked many times before (I certainly couldn’t find much).

I need a charger that can work today with standard single phase and in a few months time with 3p and solar / batteries. It would ideally be freestanding and tethered for ease of use.

• We have three phase coming but likely later this year once SSEN sort themselves out.
• I want to install a car charger now as our first EV has arrived earlier than expected.
• We are also installing a decent solar array and batteries

I am looking at Simpson & Partners freestanding 22kw charger (keen to avoid plastic / screens on our drive), but am worried that it won’t play nicely with the solar or batteries. Is there anything i should be asking my solar / battery installers, or any other charger that I’m missing that might work better? It’s also not tethered so I’m still looking but haven’t seen anything else that looks nice!

I see the Zappi and will be installing a zappi eddi for the hot water tank so perhaps it’s a case of getting over the design and getting that instead.

Basically, will a modern charger speak to modern solar / batteries so that they are smart enough between them to charge the battery and car from solar, then from off peak electricity prices, diverting demand / battery draw so that we don’t call on the grid unless it’s totally essential?

Second question, can you install a 22kw 3 phase charger using single phase wiring and then wire it for full fat power later?

Any help gratefully received!

Why would you want 22kw? Relatively few cars support it, relatively few owners would use it.

[theboss]

bennno said:

Why would you want 22kw? Relatively few cars support it, relatively few owners would use it.

If you have a 3 phase supply or could do easily then why wouldn’t you. It’s quite a nice capability to have.

[bennno]

theboss said:

bennno said:

Why would you want 22kw? Relatively few cars support it, relatively few owners would use it.

If you have a 3 phase supply or could do easily then why wouldn’t you. It’s quite a nice capability to have.

He doesn’t have a 3 phase, as per his post. Many cars onboard limited to 11kw ac charging.

Unless you are a taxi driver what’s the point?

[ldnajt]

bennno said:

theboss said:

bennno said:

Why would you want 22kw? Relatively few cars support it, relatively few owners would use it.

If you have a 3 phase supply or could do easily then why wouldn’t you. It’s quite a nice capability to have.

He doesn’t have a 3 phase, as per his post. Many cars onboard limited to 11kw ac charging.

Unless you are a taxi driver what’s the point?

Thanks for replying. Sorry if I wasn’t clear but we’re getting three phase installed when SSEN pull their fingers out.

It doesn’t seem like it is going to cost much more to have a 3p 22kw charger over a 3p 11kw, so unless I’m missing something, why not try to future proof slightly?

I’m grateful for the thoughts so please don’t misinterpret this as belligerent but what’s the downside of this?

[bennno]

ldnajt said:

Thanks for replying. Sorry if I wasn’t clear but we’re getting three phase installed when SSEN pull their fingers out.

It doesn’t seem like it is going to cost much more to have a 3p 22kw charger over a 3p 11kw, so unless I’m missing something, why not try to future proof slightly?

I’m grateful for the thoughts so please don’t misinterpret this as belligerent but what’s the downside of this?

Cost of 3 phase £3500-£6000+ vat on average.

Many cars will only take a max 11kw AC charging

Faster charging degrades batteries slightly more rapidly.

Most cars will charge overnight when electric is cheaper, so what’s the benefit in charging in 3-4 hours over say 6?

[theboss]

bennno said:

Cost of 3 phase £3500-£6000+ vat on average.

Many cars will only take a max 11kw AC charging

Faster charging degrades batteries slightly more rapidly.

Most cars will charge overnight when electric is cheaper, so what’s the benefit in charging in 3-4 hours over say 6?

Seems a bit strange really that you feel so insistent that something that isn't worthwhile to you, can't be for others.

You point out that many cars will only take max 11kW - sure enough but I have a 22kW car, they do exist. I also have 2 EVs that rack up a fair amount of miles daily and it's quite handy being able to charge them both at 11kW simultaneously within the time constraint of an off-peak charging window.

The cost isn't always an issue. The poster above seems like he's installing 3 phase anyway possibly for other reasons. This is standard for new connections now. I upgraded my supply because getting single-phase to my garage area was going to require a substantial amount of work in its own right, and it wasn't significantly more expensive to simply open up 6m of soft ground on my own plot, and get the DNO to pop a new service cable in.

The iX that I have would take 5-6 hours to charge fully on 3-phase and 15 on single phase. It's rare that I arrive home with a near empty battery and need a fast turnaround, but it has happened and it's useful to have the flexibility to deal with that at my own home instead of relying on a local DC charger which is out of order most of the time.

I'm not a taxi driver, but I do have 3 teenagers who think I am.

[TheRainMaker]

ldnajt said:

Thanks for replying. Sorry if I wasn’t clear but we’re getting three phase installed when SSEN pull their fingers out.

It doesn’t seem like it is going to cost much more to have a 3p 22kw charger over a 3p 11kw, so unless I’m missing something, why not try to future proof slightly?

I’m grateful for the thoughts so please don’t misinterpret this as belligerent but what’s the downside of this?

There isn't one; more and more cars are now coming with 22kW chargers (you will future-proof yourself). The faster you can charge, the better, IMO.

Most cars will take 11kW now, which the 22kW charger will work with, so whichever way you look at it having the 22kW charger is better than the 7kW one.

Good choice with Simpson & Partners charger; they look so much better than the "plastic fantastic" boxes most people seem happy to stick to the side of their houses.

[Buzz84]

You can get 3 phase chargers with two outlets they will share the load between the outlets, other brands make chargers that can talk to eachother so that if two were installed (either from the start or add another one later) they would load share.

Higher charging rates and multiple chargers (or the option to add) would be good future proofing.

Edited by Buzz84 on Wednesday 14th February 11:38

[5s Alive]

TheRainMaker said:

There isn't one; more and more cars are now coming with 22kW chargers (you will future-proof yourself). The faster you can charge, the better, IMO.

Most cars will take 11kW now, which the 22kW charger will work with, so whichever way you look at it having the 22kW charger is better than the 7kW one.

Good choice with Simpson & Partners charger; they look so much better than the "plastic fantastic" boxes most people seem happy to stick to the side of their houses.

I like the look of them and good value too. I particularly like that the cable exits almost vertically making it suitable for fitment in confined spaces like in a narrow garage.

Probably not a good idea to install one immediately adjacent to the pavement lest passers by mistake it for a cigarette bin.

[ldnajt]

bennno said:

Cost of 3 phase £3500-£6000+ vat on average.

Many cars will only take a max 11kw AC charging

Faster charging degrades batteries slightly more rapidly.

Most cars will charge overnight when electric is cheaper, so what’s the benefit in charging in 3-4 hours over say 6?

Got it. Thanks.
I’m not installing three phase so I can charge an EV faster, but agree that it would seem a bit odd to do so given the cost

[ldnajt]

39sl said:

I can’t comment on your 1st question, but on the 2nd question, yes you can use the S&P 22KW with a single phase and update later.

Thanks, great to know and means we might be able to crack on with some bits now. The granny charging is getting tiresome!

[enk-79]

would it not be better to look at a DC rather than an AC charger? Cars that can cope with 22kw AC are getting rarer, and if on 3 phase why not go for 50kw DC?