Which home charging point?
Discussion
As a general prediction, what are peoples thoughts on charging capacities for the future?
People always want the biggest fastest bestest-ever 3 phase charging capacity at home, but will that become common or will advancing vehicle technology, smart charging and limits from the networks mean that nobody should ever need more that a 7KW single-phase charger at home.
Has there been any studies on this?
People always want the biggest fastest bestest-ever 3 phase charging capacity at home, but will that become common or will advancing vehicle technology, smart charging and limits from the networks mean that nobody should ever need more that a 7KW single-phase charger at home.
Has there been any studies on this?
SWoll said:
7kW is more than enough for everything but the most niche requirement.
With most cars static for at least 10 hours you could add 250 miles to most EV's every night of the week in that time on 7kW, enough to cover almost 100k miles per year.
This ^^^^With most cars static for at least 10 hours you could add 250 miles to most EV's every night of the week in that time on 7kW, enough to cover almost 100k miles per year.
Plus it costs a considerable amount to add 3Ph to a home and many cars can't charge faster than 7kW/h anyway so even if you had a 22kW charger it wouldn't charge any faster than a 7kW charger.
Frimley111R said:
SWoll said:
7kW is more than enough for everything but the most niche requirement.
With most cars static for at least 10 hours you could add 250 miles to most EV's every night of the week in that time on 7kW, enough to cover almost 100k miles per year.
This ^^^^With most cars static for at least 10 hours you could add 250 miles to most EV's every night of the week in that time on 7kW, enough to cover almost 100k miles per year.
Plus it costs a considerable amount to add 3Ph to a home and many cars can't charge faster than 7kW/h anyway so even if you had a 22kW charger it wouldn't charge any faster than a 7kW charger.
The Surveyor said:
Frimley111R said:
SWoll said:
7kW is more than enough for everything but the most niche requirement.
With most cars static for at least 10 hours you could add 250 miles to most EV's every night of the week in that time on 7kW, enough to cover almost 100k miles per year.
This ^^^^With most cars static for at least 10 hours you could add 250 miles to most EV's every night of the week in that time on 7kW, enough to cover almost 100k miles per year.
Plus it costs a considerable amount to add 3Ph to a home and many cars can't charge faster than 7kW/h anyway so even if you had a 22kW charger it wouldn't charge any faster than a 7kW charger.
As I am not an EV user, I accept I may be way off - point this out if it is the case.
Statements are made which are obviously applicable for today - but I don't see that being the case in the future.
7kW certainly isn't 'enough' for many usage cases. For interest I did a quick look at my usage this week. 160 mile round trips on two successive days with no prospect of charging at my customer's premises. For my (virtual) EV to be ready for both days and to complete charging in Octopus' 4 hour 5p rate, I would have needed more than 7kW. Sure, it would work out that I wouldn't be stuck at the side of the road - but I would have been charging outside the 'cheap' rate that I would have wanted to use.
It is possible that efficiency might rise, i.e. the miles per kWh that a vehicle is capable of, but there will always be a case for faster charging at home in the short to medium term.
Range has to increase and/or charging time has to fall. Battery technology will become better both in power density and recharge time. That will of course require capability to push more power in to the vehicles. For me, I either need a range of about 500 miles OR a recharge time of 5 minutes.
My petrol car has a range of say 350 miles, but can be refueled in only 5 minutes.
I expect newer EVs will charge much faster than 7kW - don't Teslas charge at 22kW AC and 50kW DC at present?
For interest, my local DNO is installing all new supplies as 3-ph.
The Surveyor said:
Frimley111R said:
SWoll said:
7kW is more than enough for everything but the most niche requirement.
With most cars static for at least 10 hours you could add 250 miles to most EV's every night of the week in that time on 7kW, enough to cover almost 100k miles per year.
This ^^^^With most cars static for at least 10 hours you could add 250 miles to most EV's every night of the week in that time on 7kW, enough to cover almost 100k miles per year.
Plus it costs a considerable amount to add 3Ph to a home and many cars can't charge faster than 7kW/h anyway so even if you had a 22kW charger it wouldn't charge any faster than a 7kW charger.
Even if the technology improves and prices fall so that a 100kW battery is a standard fitment, how many people do you think there are that would regularly need to charge it from empty to full and couldn't operate by just 'topping up', and thus could do with a faster 3 phase charger?
A 100kW battery would delver the same range as many regular cars, so how many people empty their 50 litre fuel tank every day, and need to full up with 50 litres every evening? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000?
I can dump 150 miles cheap electricity into my car from my 7.4kW charger every night over the 5 hour cheap period. Even if I was doing more than 150 miles a day, every day, I might think about a three phase supply, or I might avoid that cost and simply plug it in for longer and fill it with non-cheap rate electricity.
And for those occasional long distance trips. Well just plan in advance and get it topped up over a few nights before hand, or go to a commercial charger and fill it up.
No ideas for a name said:
The Surveyor said:
Frimley111R said:
SWoll said:
7kW is more than enough for everything but the most niche requirement.
With most cars static for at least 10 hours you could add 250 miles to most EV's every night of the week in that time on 7kW, enough to cover almost 100k miles per year.
This ^^^^With most cars static for at least 10 hours you could add 250 miles to most EV's every night of the week in that time on 7kW, enough to cover almost 100k miles per year.
Plus it costs a considerable amount to add 3Ph to a home and many cars can't charge faster than 7kW/h anyway so even if you had a 22kW charger it wouldn't charge any faster than a 7kW charger.
As I am not an EV user, I accept I may be way off - point this out if it is the case.
Statements are made which are obviously applicable for today - but I don't see that being the case in the future.
7kW certainly isn't 'enough' for many usage cases. For interest I did a quick look at my usage this week. 160 mile round trips on two successive days with no prospect of charging at my customer's premises. For my (virtual) EV to be ready for both days and to complete charging in Octopus' 4 hour 5p rate, I would have needed more than 7kW. Sure, it would work out that I wouldn't be stuck at the side of the road - but I would have been charging outside the 'cheap' rate that I would have wanted to use.
It is possible that efficiency might rise, i.e. the miles per kWh that a vehicle is capable of, but there will always be a case for faster charging at home in the short to medium term.
Range has to increase and/or charging time has to fall. Battery technology will become better both in power density and recharge time. That will of course require capability to push more power in to the vehicles. For me, I either need a range of about 500 miles OR a recharge time of 5 minutes.
My petrol car has a range of say 350 miles, but can be refueled in only 5 minutes.
I expect newer EVs will charge much faster than 7kW - don't Teslas charge at 22kW AC and 50kW DC at present?
For interest, my local DNO is installing all new supplies as 3-ph.
The thing to keep firmly in mind is that compared to Petrol/DERV even 'regular priced' leccy works out very favourably in a cost comparison.
techguyone said:
The thing to keep firmly in mind is that compared to Petrol/DERV even 'regular priced' leccy works out very favourably in a cost comparison.
One thing that bothers me about that is that most of it is due to taxes and duties. They are going to have to re think taxes on that. ZesPak said:
techguyone said:
The thing to keep firmly in mind is that compared to Petrol/DERV even 'regular priced' leccy works out very favourably in a cost comparison.
One thing that bothers me about that is that most of it is due to taxes and duties. They are going to have to re think taxes on that. ZesPak said:
techguyone said:
The thing to keep firmly in mind is that compared to Petrol/DERV even 'regular priced' leccy works out very favourably in a cost comparison.
One thing that bothers me about that is that most of it is due to taxes and duties. They are going to have to re think taxes on that. gaseous clay said:
Strangely the costs are fairly close already in terms of the outright cost of the energy. A litre of diesel contains about 10KWh of energy and costs slightly less than 10KWh of electricity.
That doesn't matter though as they don't seem to be able to get thermal efficiency near 50% in an ICE.ZesPak said:
gaseous clay said:
Strangely the costs are fairly close already in terms of the outright cost of the energy. A litre of diesel contains about 10KWh of energy and costs slightly less than 10KWh of electricity.
That doesn't matter though as they don't seem to be able to get thermal efficiency near 50% in an ICE.Where an EV would get somewhere between 30-40miles for that 10KWh, the diesel is only going to get 6.5-11 (30-50 mpg).
Getting an i3 next week so have spent too much time reading this thread trying to decide which charger.
The list so far:
Are there any glaring omissions?
BMW are recommending the BP Pulse, but it's easily the nastiest looking device. I'm leaning towards the EO Pro 2 at the moment, especially as I have solar panels; though they're over ten years old so not sure of compatibility... The app looks a bit naff too.
The list so far:
Are there any glaring omissions?
BMW are recommending the BP Pulse, but it's easily the nastiest looking device. I'm leaning towards the EO Pro 2 at the moment, especially as I have solar panels; though they're over ten years old so not sure of compatibility... The app looks a bit naff too.
LordGrover said:
Getting an i3 next week so have spent too much time reading this thread trying to decide which charger.
The list so far:
Are there any glaring omissions?
BMW are recommending the BP Pulse, but it's easily the nastiest looking device. I'm leaning towards the EO Pro 2 at the moment, especially as I have solar panels; though they're over ten years old so not sure of compatibility... The app looks a bit naff too.
Lots of negative feedback on on the EV forums about BP, endless waiting seems to be the main issue. Ive looked at all of the above and still haven’t made my mind up The list so far:
Are there any glaring omissions?
BMW are recommending the BP Pulse, but it's easily the nastiest looking device. I'm leaning towards the EO Pro 2 at the moment, especially as I have solar panels; though they're over ten years old so not sure of compatibility... The app looks a bit naff too.
No ideas for a name said:
. For interest I did a quick look at my usage this week. 160 mile round trips on two successive days with no prospect of charging at my customer's premises. For my (virtual) EV to be ready for both days and to complete charging in Octopus' 4 hour 5p rate, I would have needed more than 7kW. Sure, it would work out that I wouldn't be stuck at the side of the road - but I would have been charging outside the 'cheap' rate that I would have wanted to use.
It's pretty obvious that either you would charge a propotion outside the cheap rate at a tiny additonal cost 320 miles in an ICE at 60 mpg costs you about £30.
320 miles in an EV at 3.5 ml/kWH and 5p/kWh = £4.50
320 miles in an EV at 3.5 ml/kWH and with 75% of energy at 5p/kWh and 25% supplied at 20 p/kWh = £8
Even if you did that journey every week you would still save around £22 each and every time you did it if you drove an EV!
Sometimes, i have been out and about charging away from home, and so have had top up at extorsionate prices, as much as 45p/kWh. But because i don't do this very often it simply doesn't matter.. It's like when you are on holiday with the family in your loaded up car, and you need fuel and you just pull into a motorway services, and get stiffed for fuel because the convience outweighs the tiny additonal cost.
The other day i was coming back home cross country and i could have got home on my remaining range by trundling along, but i stopped at a fast charger on my route, for just 12 minutes, and the 10 additional kWh's i stuck in cost me £4.20. But i then drove home like a maniac and had a lot more fun. In fact i suspect i probably did about £100 worth of wear to my tyres, so the four quid on lecy is really not that important eh :-)
No ideas for a name said:
7kW certainly isn't 'enough' for many usage cases. For interest I did a quick look at my usage this week. 160 mile round trips on two successive days with no prospect of charging at my customer's premises. For my (virtual) EV to be ready for both days and to complete charging in Octopus' 4 hour 5p rate, I would have needed more than 7kW. Sure, it would work out that I wouldn't be stuck at the side of the road - but I would have been charging outside the 'cheap' rate that I would have wanted to use.
so you pay a couple of quid more for the odd days you have long tripsI did a 250 mile round trip back to back with only home charging, full when i left both days
22KW 3 phase is a waste of money unless you already have it installed
I drive 15 hours a week and could easily live with just a 3kw granny charger
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Friday 21st May 15:29
See below, based on our experiences or other installers, plus one added...
Andersen - Nice but pricey. If you can afford it it is a nice option
BP Pulse - Old style charger, unattractive and cheap looking
Easee - Not installed one so not sure
EO - Good, small but needs earth spike/cabling which doesn't look nice and they look small from the front but are quite deep these days
Ohme - Fine but not the best looking thing
PodPoint - Fine but quite big
Rolec - As above
Wallbox - Tethered only but good, has Bluetooth connectivity
Webasto - No idea
Zappi - Big, works with solar etc but so do many others
SyncEV - 'Best' - smaller than the EO, no earth spike so neat finish, GSM capability, RFID, does solar etc
I wouldn't say there are any terrible chargers in your list and you won't go wrong with any. Key differences are in looks.
As far as Apps go, most are fine but connecting them via wifi, GSM etc can be patchy however you can ignore them really as all they do is allow you to monitor and schedule charging essentially and most EVs do this anyway with far better Apps.
Hope that helps
Andersen - Nice but pricey. If you can afford it it is a nice option
BP Pulse - Old style charger, unattractive and cheap looking
Easee - Not installed one so not sure
EO - Good, small but needs earth spike/cabling which doesn't look nice and they look small from the front but are quite deep these days
Ohme - Fine but not the best looking thing
PodPoint - Fine but quite big
Rolec - As above
Wallbox - Tethered only but good, has Bluetooth connectivity
Webasto - No idea
Zappi - Big, works with solar etc but so do many others
SyncEV - 'Best' - smaller than the EO, no earth spike so neat finish, GSM capability, RFID, does solar etc
I wouldn't say there are any terrible chargers in your list and you won't go wrong with any. Key differences are in looks.
As far as Apps go, most are fine but connecting them via wifi, GSM etc can be patchy however you can ignore them really as all they do is allow you to monitor and schedule charging essentially and most EVs do this anyway with far better Apps.
Hope that helps
LordGrover said:
Getting an i3 next week so have spent too much time reading this thread trying to decide which charger.
The list so far:
Are there any glaring omissions?
BMW are recommending the BP Pulse, but it's easily the nastiest looking device. I'm leaning towards the EO Pro 2 at the moment, especially as I have solar panels; though they're over ten years old so not sure of compatibility... The app looks a bit naff too.
You also need to think about tethered or untethered. Pros and cons for either.The list so far:
Are there any glaring omissions?
BMW are recommending the BP Pulse, but it's easily the nastiest looking device. I'm leaning towards the EO Pro 2 at the moment, especially as I have solar panels; though they're over ten years old so not sure of compatibility... The app looks a bit naff too.
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